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The Holocaust - God's Covenant with the Jewish People

nonbelieverforums said:
Can you translate this for me .. with you lot I never know if the verse applies to the modern day, the first century , it is a meaphore, symbolic, etc..

Why dont you tell me who this people is.
If you are a preterist ,then you would say this people were those of the first century.If your not a preterist ,then you would say all things which are written have not yet been forfilled.

Luke 21;21-23
Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains;and let them which are in the midst of it depart out;and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
For these be the days of vengeance,that all things which are written may be forfilled.
But woe unto them that are with child,and to them that give suck,in those days!for there shall be great distress in the land,and wrath upon this people.


What does it sound like to you?Does it sound like God is delivering that people in the above verse or is he not?
 
nonbelieverforums said:
Thursday, August 6, 2009
Understanding the Satanic Secular Smoke Screen Over Israel


By Bill Salus

A recent timely article that accurately assesses the current geo-political situation in the Middle East entitled “Israel: Box It and Tape The Lid Shutâ€Â, was released by Robert Maginnis. His article, gives clarity to the political predicament, the international community in general, and the Obama administration specifically, has boxed Israel into.

The Maginnis piece delivers invaluable insights as to the geo-political realities facing Israel. Now lets take a look on a deeper level at the geo-“prophetical†implications of current Mideast events.
It appears geo-prophetically that all of this Hail Mary diplomacy Maginnis articulately points to is nothing more than a temporary satanic secular smoke screen. According to the Bible prophecies described in Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38, Satan appears to have big plans set in place to destroy Israel in the near future.

The basic satanic premise for the demise of Israel, is probably that if the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, i.e. the Jews, are eliminated then the God of those patriarchs who promised them descendants forever, becomes a promise breaker. Furthermore, according to Bible prophecies like Hosea 5:15 and elsewhere, a faithful end time’s remnant of Jews will beckon the return of Christ to the earth. According to these prophecies this is a pre-requisite of the Second Coming of Christ. Thus Satan furthermore likely deduces that if there are no Jews, there can be no Second Coming.

These two forthcoming Israeli war prophecies represent an inner circle of Arab populations that share common borders with Israel, in Psalm 83, and an outer ring of Arab, Persian, and other assorted population composites in Ezekiel 38:1-6.

The two attached maps, bordered by pentagons, show the inner circle and outer ring correlations and superimpose the ancient peoples names over their modern day equivalents.

These powerful Israeli war prophecies are foretold to occur in the end times and when closely studied seem to happen sequentially and in fairly rapid succession. They can be likened to a devilish one–two punch that is intended to knock Israel down to the canvas and out for the final count.

Diplomatically incarcerating the Jews into a box, which the Obama administration may unknowingly be doing, obviously makes it easier for Satan to militarily incinerate them later through these coming prophetic invasions. Fortunately for Israel, according to Bible prophecy, the Devil’s genocidal attempts against the Jews will be thwarted. As I point out in my book Isralestine, The Ancient Blueprints of the Future Middle East, the I.D.F. purportedly stops the Psalm 83 Arab assault and God will divinely destroy the Ezekiel 38 & 39 invaders.

Psalm 83 likely occurs when the Arabs believe they can once and for all defeat Israel conventionally, something they have failed miserably at in the wars 1948, 1967, and 1973. However, unlike those previously failed conventional Arab war efforts, the final Psalm 83 attack should combine both traditional Arab methods of war along with the relatively recently formatted tried and tested unconventional tactics of terrorism.

This coming final Arab advance against Israel appears to be a climactic concluding battle inclusive of nations like Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan, as well as terrorist driven non-nation populations, like the Palestinians, Hezbollah, Hamas, Fatah, and even perhaps the Al-Qaeda.

Most of these above Arab nations have developed advanced military arsenals. Simultaneously they have been transforming their terrorist bedfellows from thugs into political parties, who themselves have also become armed and dangerous. As such it appears that the confidence level of these Arab nations and/or terrorist populations to war against Israel has risen to an unprecedented high.

Although Iran is flanked alongside Russia in the Ezekiel 38 invasion, it is not listed among the Psalm 83 confederates. Why not? Is it merely because they are Persian rather than Arab? I think not. I believe that something powerful soon happens to Iran that renders them temporarily of little to no utility to the Psalm 83 Arabs. It is hard to say what event neutralizes Iran; however, a strategic Israeli airstrike that effectively sets Iran’s nuclear program back to the Stone Age could certainly do the trick.

If Iran’s nuclear plants are struck, then Russia would likely expediently run to their rescue. Russia is heavily invested in a multiplicity of Iran’s military endeavors. Not only are they assisting with their nuclear aspirations, but they have also contracted to sell them the Russian made S-300 and S-400 state of the art missile defense systems.

Furthermore, if Iran is attacked, Russian and Iranian relations would undoubtedly grow stronger and their collective hatred of Israel likely grow deeper. In the aftermath of such an attack, a strengthened Russian-Iranian relationship coupled with a deepened Anti-Semitic sentiment, would appear to fit well into Satan’s grand scheme of things. Such an adversarial disposition against Israel could easily pave the way for the coming invasion described in Ezekiel 38 & 39.

Any which way you size it up, putting Israel in a box and taping the lid shut could be the exact prophetic prescription the devil desires for Israel in these end times. When we look at the geo-prophetic implications of modern day Middle East events, we are reminded in 1 John 5:19 "that the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one."

It is obvious that humanity, apart from a small evangelical Christian contingent within it, has entirely disconnected from God’s plan to make Israel a great nation as per Genesis 12:2-3. This ancient prophecy encourages mankind to further facilitate the fulfillment of a Greater Israel by “blessing†it as a nation rather than by boxing it in, or otherwise “cursing†it.

Currently Israel occupies only a small sliver of the land bestowed to it in Genesis 15:18, which stretches between the Nile and Euphrates rivers. This is land that the international community, inclusive of the Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38:1-6 populations, cannot presently fathom allotting for a sovereign Jewish State. But, in the aftermath of the Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38 & 39 prophetic episodes, Israel will likely begin to gradually annex some of this Promised Land. If their Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38:1-6 enemies are defeated, who will try to prevent them from doing so?

However, for now it seems that all this political double talk about two-state peace solutions, foreign policies of Engagement, and the Obama-Clinton defense umbrella, which are intended to stabilize the Middle East, will likely turn out to be nothing more than Satanically driven secular smoke screens intended to set the stage for the elimination of the Jews once and for all.


Why do you suppose people dont pay any attention to the gospel of Jesus Christ when attempting to understand prophecy?
The children of the kingdom shall be cast out.

Mt 8;11-12
And I say unto you,That many shall come from the east and west,and shall sit down with Abraham,and Isaac,and Jacob,in the kingdom of heaven.
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness;there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


ps
Tell Bill Salus the promised land belongs to Jesus Christ not the unbelieving antichrist that is in Judea today.And when Jesus returns,those thieves who claim it as thier own will be removed.


Gal 3;16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made,He saith not,And to thy seeds,as of many;but as of one,And to thy seed,which is Christ.


Mt 21;38
But the husbandmen saw the son,they said among themselves,This is the heir;come,let us kill him,and let us seize on his inheritance.
 
einstein said:
Drew said:
Sorry .. why because they reject Christ or you believe the covenant was only good in the first century
My argument is that the the scriptures teach us that any promises that were specific to the Jews have all been fulfilled as of the cross.

Are you saying that all the promises that God made to the Jewish people were fulfilled at the cross? Could you be more specific?
Yes. I am indeed saying that all the covenant promises made to the Jews were fulfilled at the cross. Let me consider just one in this post.

First, the promise that the Jews would be a blessing to the nations. I think that Paul's analysis is that the Torah was used by God to "concentrate" sin in national Israel before it was passed on to Jesus and dealt with on the cross, to the ulimate benefit of all humankind. Israel effectively acts out the Christ pattern by being "cast away for the sins of the world". Israel has thus indeed blessed the world, but in a deeply self-sacrificial mode, not by being "leaders" in any sense.

I realize that this is only one promise, and that my answer here is really only an assertion without actual supporting argument. I hope to provide more information later.
 
einstein said:
Drew said:
Since I believe that all the promises made to Israel have already been fulfilled, I think that the Bible has nothing at all to say about anything related to Israel from 70 AD onward.

Your beliefs are consistent with a type of replacement theology for which there is no basis in the Hebrew Bible. The Torah and the God's covenant with Israel is eternal:-
My position involves no "replacement" whatsoever. And I certainly disagree about the eternal nature of the Torah. I will not address the Torah matter directly in this post.

No promise that was actually made to the Jews and to the Jews only has been "transferred" away from them and passed onto the church. My view is often misrepresented as "replacement" but it really is not. I fully grant that my view leans heavily on the belief that some promises can and did have a deeply surprising fulfillment, but one that can be legitimately seen as consistent with the promise.

I suspect (but this is only a suspicion, but we will see) that we will disagree as follows:

You (einstein) will take a promise to the Jews and read it "at face value".

I (drew) will argue that the promise "as read" is actually inherently ambiguous as to its true meaning and has been fulfilled in a way other than the way you read the promise.
 
Ok slighty off track.,,, let me ask this.

Will Jews see Heavin? If I am a jewish person I have no relationship with Jesus Christ as I do not beleive Christ is the messiah and I do not believe Christ died for our sins. There are numerous scriptures that say unless you have have a relationship with Jesus Christ you will not come to the father.


So if I am a jew.. I die today. Do I see Heavin ??
 
Shilohsfoal said:
nonbelieverforums said:
Question 1.

If the Jews are Gods chosen people why would god allow the Holocaust to take place?

Did God keep his covenant with the Jews during the Holocaust ?




Question 2.

With the current Iran nuclear threat.. is it possible that Iran could actually wipe Israel off the map ? Can Israel possibily be harmed or will it be protected. Will god keep his covenant with the Jewish people and protect them and Israel in this modern day conflict.

Through Isaiah, God declared that “no weapon formed against†Israel would prosper. Does this apply in the modern day ??

If Im not mistaken the people who were called a chosen people by the Lord were destroyed in the wilderness after being deliverd out of bondage in Egypt.You speaking of that chosen people or are you speaking of another chosen people?



Were they all distroyed in the wilderness are you sure about that statement ??
 
Were they all distroyed in the wilderness are you sure about that statement ??


They are not distroyed they were scattered.

I said another thread earlier the nation of Israel today, the one that was established in 1948 are the tribe of Judah (4) and Benjamin (12) known as the Jews; they are not Israel but two tribes. There were twelve tribes, the Bible had Benjamin and Joseph (11) born by Rachel the chosen bride, then their ten half brothers born by maid servants and their names were, Rueben(1), Simeon (2), Levi(3), Judah(4), Dan(5), Naphtali(6), Gad(7), Asher(8), Issachar(9) and Zebulun(10), this can be found in Genesis 29.

The twelve tribes under David and Solomon were one nation but later were separated in fact the name of the ten tribes during this separation was “Israelâ€Â. During the separation Judah and Benjamin were known as Judah. Israel; the northern ten tribes were later scattered and lost absorbed into many nations. Point being no one really knows where they are.

So your nation of Israel today is not Israel just two tribes Judah (Benjamin and Judah).

What did Jesus actually say was the only reason that he first came ?
Why is this not discussed or understood in the walls of religion today


Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

This then is the means by which Jesus intends to save all sinners, but most who cal themselves 'Christian' do not even know he said this, let alone knowing who the House of Israel are or that the new covenant of grace is ONLY with those whose fathers broke the old covenant, with the descendants of the House of Israel and the House of Judah ...

Do you see how far religion has strayed , it no longer seeks out the House of Israel that the disciples of Jesus were commanded to go and find, scattered amongst the gentiles :-

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the House of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the House of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Notice how even God's Word separates the House of Judah and house of Israel.

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the House of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
 
nonbelieverforums said:
Ok slighty off track.,,, let me ask this.

Will Jews see Heavin? If I am a jewish person I have no relationship with Jesus Christ as I do not beleive Christ is the messiah and I do not believe Christ died for our sins. There are numerous scriptures that say unless you have have a relationship with Jesus Christ you will not come to the father.


So if I am a jew.. I die today. Do I see Heavin??

It gets worse. Seeing that this thread started with the concept of the Holocast it follows from those verses that the Nazi stormtrooper who sends the Jewish child to the crematorium, but accepts Jesus as his saviour before he dies goes to heaven, while the Jewish child goes to hell. :screwloose Yup that makes a lot of sense!
 
nonbelieverforums said:
Shilohsfoal said:
nonbelieverforums said:
Question 1.

If the Jews are Gods chosen people why would god allow the Holocaust to take place?

Did God keep his covenant with the Jews during the Holocaust ?




Question 2.

With the current Iran nuclear threat.. is it possible that Iran could actually wipe Israel off the map ? Can Israel possibily be harmed or will it be protected. Will god keep his covenant with the Jewish people and protect them and Israel in this modern day conflict.

Through Isaiah, God declared that “no weapon formed against†Israel would prosper. Does this apply in the modern day ??

If Im not mistaken the people who were called a chosen people by the Lord were destroyed in the wilderness after being deliverd out of bondage in Egypt.You speaking of that chosen people or are you speaking of another chosen people?



Were they all distroyed in the wilderness are you sure about that statement ??


Jude 5
I will therefore put you in remembrance,though ye once knew this,how that the Lord,having saved the people out of the land of Egypt,afterward destoyed them that believed not.


Are you speaking of these chosen people who were destroyed or are you speaking of another chosen people?I guess some of those people who came out of Egypt thousands of years ago could still be alive but I believe it is very unlikely.So what other chosen people are there besides those who God saved and made a covenant with ?
 
nonbelieverforums said:
Ok slighty off track.,,, let me ask this.

Will Jews see Heavin? If I am a jewish person I have no relationship with Jesus Christ as I do not beleive Christ is the messiah and I do not believe Christ died for our sins. There are numerous scriptures that say unless you have have a relationship with Jesus Christ you will not come to the father.


So if I am a jew.. I die today. Do I see Heavin??

If you know there are numerous scriptures that say then why would you question those scriptures?
John 3;5
Jesus answerd and said unto him,Verily,verily,I say unto thee,Except a man be born again,he connot see the kingdom of God.
 
Amen. Good point.
einstein said:
nonbelieverforums said:
Ok slighty off track.,,, let me ask this.

Will Jews see Heavin? If I am a jewish person I have no relationship with Jesus Christ as I do not beleive Christ is the messiah and I do not believe Christ died for our sins. There are numerous scriptures that say unless you have have a relationship with Jesus Christ you will not come to the father.


So if I am a jew.. I die today. Do I see Heavin??

It gets worse. Seeing that this thread started with the concept of the Holocast it follows from those verses that the Nazi stormtrooper who sends the Jewish child to the crematorium, but accepts Jesus as his saviour before he dies goes to heaven, while the Jewish child goes to hell. :screwloose Yup that makes a lot of sense!
 
It also says: Luke 2:10 (King James Version) 10And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy,which shall be to all people.


Shilohsfoal said:
nonbelieverforums said:
Ok slighty off track.,,, let me ask this.

Will Jews see Heavin? If I am a jewish person I have no relationship with Jesus Christ as I do not beleive Christ is the messiah and I do not believe Christ died for our sins. There are numerous scriptures that say unless you have have a relationship with Jesus Christ you will not come to the father.


So if I am a jew.. I die today. Do I see Heavin??

If you know there are numerous scriptures that say then why would you question those scriptures?
John 3;5
Jesus answerd and said unto him,Verily,verily,I say unto thee,Except a man be born again,he connot see the kingdom of God.
 
Benoni said:
It also says: Luke 2:10 (King James Version) 10And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy,which shall be to all people.


Shilohsfoal said:
nonbelieverforums said:
Ok slighty off track.,,, let me ask this.

Will Jews see Heavin? If I am a jewish person I have no relationship with Jesus Christ as I do not beleive Christ is the messiah and I do not believe Christ died for our sins. There are numerous scriptures that say unless you have have a relationship with Jesus Christ you will not come to the father.


So if I am a jew.. I die today. Do I see Heavin??

If you know there are numerous scriptures that say then why would you question those scriptures?
John 3;5
Jesus answerd and said unto him,Verily,verily,I say unto thee,Except a man be born again,he connot see the kingdom of God.

Benoni
Is it good tidings to those who believe not the news?
Nonbeliever forums is speaking of a jewsh non believer.

Mark 16;16
He that believeth and is baptised shall be saved;but he that believeth not shall be damned.
 
God and spelling.

I don't know if you go to heaven if you spell it "heavin." If God will condemn us to eternal damnation for saying his name in conjunction with damnit, He will surely condemn you for a spelling error of that magnitude. :praying
 
Re: God and spelling.

Ticipater5000 said:
I don't know if you go to heaven if you spell it "heavin." If God will condemn us to eternal damnation for saying his name in conjunction with damnit, He will surely condemn you for a spelling error of that magnitude. :praying

Do you have anything constructive to say or do you just enjoy being a smart a__ ? I am french I do make the odd spelling error.. I am so sorry your offended but I do hope you get a life.
 
God condemns bigots, not baguettes. All is well my friend.
 
I would hope you would participate in the forums when you have something that might benefit the members scripturally, god driven.. not driven by your ego.
 
Just a well-spirited joke. Don't take offense. Turn the other cheek, fellow Christian.
 
Ticipater5000 said:
Just a well-spirited joke. Don't take offense. Turn the other cheek, fellow Christian.

Sure if you could start your first couple of posts as a new person to this site, treating people with a little respect.
 
Can Christians not take a joke? Are you really still bent up about a small comment like that? "A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger." Ring any bells? "For the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God." Just chill bro, I meant no offense and yet you continue to scapegoat me.
 
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