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The Holy Spirit must be a Person

WalterandDebbie said:
Thank you My Rock for your input, let me ask you, Why do you think Jesus Says GOD is a spirit?

Love, Walter
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When Jesus says "God is a Spirit" (John 4:24), He is emphasizing the nature of God's omnipresence and invisibility, qualities that transcend physical limitations. In saying this, Jesus is not creating a separation between Himself and God, but rather, He is revealing the fullness of God's nature. As the incarnate Word, Jesus embodies the invisible Spirit of God in a tangible form. This means that while God is Spirit, He chose to manifest Himself in the flesh as Jesus Christ. The statement highlights the unity of God’s essence: the same Spirit that is everywhere present and fills all creation also dwelt bodily in Jesus (Colossians 2:9). Jesus, as the Father incarnate, reveals that the one true God has taken on human form to accomplish the work of salvation. In this light, understanding that "God is a Spirit" deepens our comprehension of the mystery of godliness—God was manifest in the flesh as Jesus Christ, who is both fully divine and fully human, making Him the perfect revelation of the one true God.
 
My Rock said:
When Jesus says "God is a Spirit" (John 4:24), He is emphasizing the nature of God's omnipresence and invisibility, qualities that transcend physical limitations. In saying this, Jesus is not creating a separation between Himself and God, but rather, He is revealing the fullness of God's nature. As the incarnate Word, Jesus embodies the invisible Spirit of God in a tangible form. This means that while God is Spirit, He chose to manifest Himself in the flesh as Jesus Christ. The statement highlights the unity of God’s essence: the same Spirit that is everywhere present and fills all creation also dwelt bodily in Jesus (Colossians 2:9). Jesus, as the Father incarnate, reveals that the one true God has taken on human form to accomplish the work of salvation. In this light, understanding that "God is a Spirit" deepens our comprehension of the mystery of godliness—God was manifest in the flesh as Jesus Christ, who is both fully divine and fully human, making Him the perfect revelation of the one true God.
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I see and understand what you are saying, also I was searching for something on that, but could not find it yet, thank you.

Love, Walter
 
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kbmonday said:
Ah, gotcha. I didn't realize that was a common theology that Jesus died as a sinner.
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Big time. In every Protestant church in the USA today it's core doctrine.
kbmonday said:
I knew it says that in the Quran, but had no idea there were Christians who thought that kind of heresy.
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Islam scripture teaches "esus (conteary to NT teaching) never rose from the dead. They deny thhe resurrection because they still don't kniw who the real enemy is. Judaism is not much different when yiu misunderstand who the enemy if the Jewish people is. It usn't each other. The enemy has always been death, not people of different cultures living in the ME.
kbmonday said:
Am I Jewish? Maybe, but not by Israel's maternal rules. My Grandma was French and had relatives who died in a concentration camp. They were Carriers. The majority of my blood would be Cherokee though, as my maternal grandmother was a Cherokee. I'm really just a mutt. German, English, French, Cherokee and who knows what else. I do not claim Judaism though, I claim citizenship of the Commonwealth of the house of Israel as per Eph 2:11 through the precious blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
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Ok. I thought I read a couple of your posts where you used Jewish terms in discussing scripture instead of the usual christin understanding.
(In a nutshell) I grew up in a Catholic church, left there and wasindoctrinated with Reformed theology (Jesus was punished by His Father in place of us) <--foundatiinal doctrine iin every Baptist, Calvanist, Pentecostal sect in the world today.
Both covenants say, Gods' mercy is unparrelled, unmatched.
So according to them, God was pleased His Son was tortured to death.
Every one of them use this rext to "prove" their point,

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him.....He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied Isa.53:10-11 KJV

Sounds right, doesn't it? They took Gods' word and made T.U.L.I.P out of it. Paul saud,

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Gal.1:8 KJV

If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha. 1Cor.16:22 KJV

That is cursed at Chrisrts' 2nd coming.

So after I coukdn't get a straight semsible answers to questions I had I drifted from church to church being booted from all.
Through ither messengers God put in my life ( one if which was a Jewish guy who believed in Jesus and explained the old coventant in a way that made sense with the new covenant and hus view was 180 from what I was taught. That guy knew his tanakh.
 
My Rock said:
When Jesus says "God is a Spirit" (John 4:24), He is emphasizing the nature of God's omnipresence and invisibility, qualities that transcend physical limitations. In saying this, Jesus is not creating a separation between Himself and God, but rather, He is revealing the fullness of God's nature. As the incarnate Word, Jesus embodies the invisible Spirit of God in a tangible form. This means that while God is Spirit, He chose to manifest Himself in the flesh as Jesus Christ. The statement highlights the unity of God’s essence: the same Spirit that is everywhere present and fills all creation also dwelt bodily in Jesus (Colossians 2:9). Jesus, as the Father incarnate, reveals that the one true God has taken on human form to accomplish the work of salvation. In this light, understanding that "God is a Spirit" deepens our comprehension of the mystery of godliness—God was manifest in the flesh as Jesus Christ, who is both fully divine and fully human, making Him the perfect revelation of the one true God.
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Hi My Rock, I found what I was looking for: https://christianforums.net/threads...-is-a-spirit-what-was-he-talking-about.97194/, thank you for your patience Sir

Love, Walter
 
journeyman said:
Big time. In every Protestant church in the USA today it's core doctrine.

Islam scripture teaches "esus (conteary to NT teaching) never rose from the dead. They deny thhe resurrection because they still don't kniw who the real enemy is. Judaism is not much different when yiu misunderstand who the enemy if the Jewish people is. It usn't each other. The enemy has always been death, not people of different cultures living in the ME.

Ok. I thought I read a couple of your posts where you used Jewish terms in discussing scripture instead of the usual christin understanding.
(In a nutshell) I grew up in a Catholic church, left there and wasindoctrinated with Reformed theology (Jesus was punished by His Father in place of us) <--foundatiinal doctrine iin every Baptist, Calvanist, Pentecostal sect in the world today.
Both covenants say, Gods' mercy is unparrelled, unmatched.
So according to them, God was pleased His Son was tortured to death.
Every one of them use this rext to "prove" their point,

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him.....He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied Isa.53:10-11 KJV

Sounds right, doesn't it? They took Gods' word and made T.U.L.I.P out of it. Paul saud,

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Gal.1:8 KJV

If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha. 1Cor.16:22 KJV

That is cursed at Chrisrts' 2nd coming.

So after I coukdn't get a straight semsible answers to questions I had I drifted from church to church being booted from all.
Through ither messengers God put in my life ( one if which was a Jewish guy who believed in Jesus and explained the old coventant in a way that made sense with the new covenant and hus view was 180 from what I was taught. That guy knew his tanakh.
Click to expand...
I was raised in the occult, so I was not aware this was a central doctrine that Yeshua became a sinner. I have seen a few obvious false teachers who said that, and been to a lot of different churches. Maybe it just didn't ever come up when I was present. I do lean towards the Judaistic views on multiple points and would probably be considered Messianic if someone labeled me. This may be due to my starting my Christian walk at Genesis 1, instead of the NT.
 
kbmonday said:
I was raised in the occult, so I was not aware this was a central doctrine that Yeshua became a sinner. I have seen a few obvious false teachers who said that, and been to a lot of different churches. Maybe it just didn't ever come up when I was present. I do lean towards the Judaistic views on multiple points and would probably be considered Messianic if someone labeled me. This may be due to my starting my Christian walk at Genesis 1, instead of the NT.
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No where does the Bible teach that the Lord was a sinner or became a sinner.

The Reformed do not believe this.
 
electedbyhim said:
No clue what you are saying here about 1 John.
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electedbyhim
There is no way for me to explain to explainto you any more clearly what Paul is really warning believers about in 1Cor.12:1-3 than post #63. Dear God in Heaven above brother wake uo. Iaul is saying if you believe the scriptures say "Jesus was cursed by God for our sins" you can't possibly have the Holy Spirit in you. It's impossible for anyone claiming faith in Jesus to have a genuine gift of Hus Holy Spirit. For the sake of God, will you please look at that text and see wgat he's really saying? He just flipped the "penal substitution" doctrine in Romans upside down.
If yiu believe in substitutiony atonement, you're giing into the klkaje of fire and you ain't coming out.
 
journeyman said:
Hello kbmonday.
The consensus within "Christianity" today is that Jesus died as a curse, as a sinner, in place of all sinners for the ungodly.
In 1Cor.13:1-3, Paul said that doctrine is anti-Christ.
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Please don’t misrepresent what Christians believe and stick to the topic.
 
electedbyhim said:
No where does the Bible teach that the Lord was a sinner or became a sinner.

The Reformed do not believe this.
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IOh my God I never said that. Stop putting these false statements in my mouth. You are bearing false witness right now to me. Not about me, but to me...because 1Cor.12:3 3 says the Holy Spirit in plain soeech disagrees with your doctrine. Not me. God disagrees with you and you are right now under condemnation.

Get the babylonian Protestant false doctrine of penal substitution out if yiur mind thus second and then read tge llain meaming of the text. I hope and pray you inderstand what Paul is saying.
I
 
journeyman said:
IOh my God I never said that. Stop putting these false statements in my mouth. You are bearing false witness right now to me. Not about me, but to me...because 1Cor.12:3 3 says the Holy Spirit in plain soeech disagrees with your doctrine. Not me. God disagrees with you and you are right now under condemnation.

Get the babylonian Protestant false doctrine of penal substitution out if yiur mind thus second and then read tge llain meaming of the text. I hope and pray you inderstand what Paul is saying.
I
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Don't use His precious name in vain, please.
 
journeyman said:
IOh my God I never said that. Stop putting these false statements in my mouth. You are bearing false witness right now to me. Not about me, but to me...because 1Cor.12:3 3 says the Holy Spirit in plain soeech disagrees with your doctrine. Not me. God disagrees with you and you are right now under condemnation.

Get the babylonian Protestant false doctrine of penal substitution out if yiur mind thus second and then read tge llain meaming of the text. I hope and pray you inderstand what Paul is saying.
I
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First off, I was quoting kbmonday

Second, look at your reply in post #83.
 
kbmonday said:
The only 'preacher' I have ever seen say that was Furtick, who I instantly recognized as a false teacher.
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There are some denominations that have taught Christ was a sinner.

Some very extreme forms of Pentecostal/charismatic, but not limited to just them.
 
electedbyhim said:
First off, I was quoting kbmonday

Second, look at your reply in post #83.
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Something in my spirit is warning me about this take on salvation. He most certainly was propitiation for our sin. That said, I do not want to assume someone's stance nor put words in another's mouth.
1 John 2:2-6 (KJV)

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
 
kbmonday said:
Something in my spirit is warning me about this take on salvation. He most certainly was propitiation for our sin. That said, I do not want to assume someone's stance nor put words in another's mouth.
1 John 2:2-6 (KJV)

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
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Penal Substitutionary Atonement​


"He was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all” - Isaiah 53

"The Son of Man came to give his life a ransom for (ἀντί) many" (Matt. 20:28); "this is my body which is given for (ἀντί) you" (Mark 10:45). In these two passages the preposition ἀντί indisputably denotes substitution. Passages like "Archelaus reigned in the room (ἀντί) of his father Herod" (Matt. 2:22), "an eye for an eye" (ἀντί) (Matt. 5:38), and "will he for a fish give him a serpent?" (ἀντί) (Luke 11:11)
The Greek preposition "ἀντί" (anti), which fundamentally means "instead of" or "in place of." In biblical usage, it often denotes substitution, indicating that something is given or exchanged in place of something else.

Here are key points to understand the meaning of "anti" in this context:
  1. Substitutionary Concept: In the passages mentioned (e.g., Matthew 20:28, Mark 10:45), "anti" conveys the idea that Jesus Christ gave His life as a ransom "in place of" many. This highlights the substitutionary nature of Christ's atonement, where He took the place of sinners, bearing the punishment they deserved.
  2. Biblical Examples: The cited verses demonstrate this substitutionary use:
  • Matthew 20:28: "The Son of Man came to give his life as a ransom for (ἀντί) many."
  • Mark 10:45: "This is my body which is given for (ἀντί) you."
  • Matthew 2:22: "Archelaus reigned in the place of (ἀντί) his father Herod."
  • Matthew 5:38: "An eye for (ἀντί) an eye."
  • Luke 11:11: "Will he for (ἀντί) a fish give him a serpent?"
  1. Theological Implication: The use of "anti" underscores the doctrine that Christ's atonement was vicarious. He did not die for His own sins, as He was sinless, but for the sins of others. His sacrifice satisfied divine justice, providing redemption and reconciliation for those who believe in Him.
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Monergism.com
 
Free said:
Please don’t misrepresent what Christians believe and stick to the topic.
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After all I've ever said to you on this forum and truly seeing wagat Paul so ooenly means, you have the audacity to say tgat to me?
I have only ever spoken to you with a loving heart. I know mow I won't be a member here much longer but I'm not leaving and I'm not backing down so if you want me out of here you'll have to ban me.

Now about your fakse charge in thus post, you said don't misrepresent what other christians believe . Isnt that what you Then

I said all reformed theology teached substitutionary atonement

Then you said you believe substionary atonement. So I tokd the truth.

I just disagreed substitutionary atinement is right. And since 1Cor.12:1-3 says exactly tgat, I'll believe that and not you and every other Protestent here.

Do you understand? I'm not condemning you. I'm showing you as calmly as I can why people who hold the doctrine of substitutionary atonement are giloing to be damned? Do yiu seriously think I want you, electedbyhim Tenchi or any other person on this website to be damned?
 
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