The Law, works and keeping his comandments

[JLB]

Then how does God judge 'the whole world', and 'silence every mouth' by that law?

12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law Romans 2:12


JLB

 

[farouk]

It's a gross oversimplification and inaccuracy to imply that simply because someone quotes Romans 6.14 and Galatians 5.18, this is an invitation for people to commit adultery. Really, this won't do as a line of argument.

 

[JLB]

I believe the law was added until the Seed should come, since the Seed has come, the law has vanished away in the light of the One who has cast the shadow.

Correct. The WAY of fulfilling the requirements of God, boxed up in the system and way of the first covenant, was added, and was then set aside with the appearance of Christ and his work on cross.

What you are arguing for, and don't realize, is the end of the WAY of the law of Moses, not the requirements in the law of Moses that it's own way sought to uphold.

The scripture doesn't say that.

The scripture says the law was added until...

The scripture does not say - the way the law is to be kept, or the way the law is to be obeyed,

It simply says, the law was added until.

Furthermore, the scripture says

In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

It doesn't say the way we keep the covenant or the requirements of the Covenant has vanished away, it says the Covenant has vanished away.

And again -

12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.Hebrews 7:12

This scripture says the law has changed.

Not the way the law is kept.

Not the way the requirements are kept, but the law itself has changed.

Again -

14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Colossians 2:14

Having WIPED OUT the requirements that was against us.

The requirements that you telling me that we are to keep, the scripture says, has been wiped out.


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law Romans 2:12

I agree with you, JLB.
I'd like to refer to the bolded part, to Romans 1 around verse 18. Paul, explains how those who were not given the oracles of God could be fairly judged by God. He gave them, the gentiles, the knowledge of Him, etc. We could say Cain, Abel, Abraham, Noah, etc. had this common knowledge of God and God's laws long before the "old covenant, made with Moses and the Hebrew (Israelites), which was the 613 laws, not just the 10.

Then in Romans 2, he says the Jews actually had an advantage because they had been given the oracles of God and that by that set of covenant laws they were judged.

In Romans 3, verse 28, Paul is referring back to both of the ways that one knows God's laws. Even though the knowledge of them was given in different ways.

Today we are led by the Spirit, the laws of God are actually indwelling us. Written on the hearts and minds.

Jesus did not just fulfill the Law of Moses in the 613 laws, He filled the Torah (the first five books written down by Moses) and the Prophets. Will one jot or tittle of the Torah pass away, no.

The Law of Moses, as in the 10 + 603
It was the "old covenant" the "old contract" that became obsolete (no longer in use). The new covenant, new contract is in force, is in use.
The old contract was made between God and Moses and the children of Israel accepted that contract.

The new contract was made between God and Jesus, as the Seed of Abraham (fulfilling the promise to Abraham) for all the children of God, all believers who accept the new contract.

The Jews today may think they have a contract with God under the Law of Moses. They cannot fulfill a contract that was already fulfilled by the Savior and is obsolete.
Why in the world would we want to say that the Christian church is under an obsolete contract, that they need to fulfill a contract that Jesus already fulfilled.

That covenant cannot be broken down and the sacrifices separated from the requirements, they are all part of the whole. If one thinks that anyone obeys the requirements of MOSES Law, then there has to be a blood atonement when one fails.
Jesus is NOT still hanging on that Cross. He totally and completely fulfilled ALL the requirements of MOSES Law.
He lived a sin free life fulfilling the requirements. And then paid the price for ALL of the sin of all mankind.
He now sits at the right hand of the Father in victory.

That covenant (contract) is over and done with.

This is just my understanding. JLB, or anyone is welcome to disagree and show me where I am wrong.

Blessings

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Then how does God judge 'the whole world', and 'silence every mouth' by that law?

12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law Romans 2:12


JLB

Still can't see it?

All will be judged by the same REQUIREMENTS of law, whether you know about them as the law of Moses or not. Not judged according to the same specific WAY of upholding the requirements of the law of Moses, necessarily. The same requirements of the law, which as you yourself defend are universal and eternal, not temporary.

But you won't get this if you can't see the difference between what the law requires (the eternal requirements of God) and how the law itself says to fulfill those requirements (the first covenant WAY of doing that).

I don't know how you can say, for example, 'do not murder' is eternal outside of the law of the Moses, but temporary and non-binding on the world inside the law of Moses. Now I can see that in regard to HOW you fulfill that example of law. That I can see.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It's a gross oversimplification and inaccuracy to imply that simply because someone quote Romans 6.14 and Galatians 5.18, this is an invitation for people to commit adultery. Really, this won't do as a line of argument.

I agree. But that is exactly what people are saying (even though they obviously don't agree with it) when they say the law of Moses has passed away and, therefore, we are no longer 'under' it (meaning they don't have to obey what it commands--because after all salvation is by faith alone).

It's an illogical rationalization to somehow explain the fulfillment of the law, yet the end of the law at the same time.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

[MENTION=88699]Jethro Bodine[/MENTION], It would be helpful if you could define the way of the law, vs the requirements of the law, vs the requirements of God. I believe most of the contention in this thread is related to differing definitions of these terms.

I'm confident that you are correct in that assessment, lol.

The requirement of the law: Blood sacrifice for the removal of sin guilt.

The WAY of the law of Moses: The blood of an animal is applied in a specific manner in a specific place and time.

The WAY of faith in Jesus Christ: The blood of Jesus is applied, and applied when we place our trust in that blood.

See? The fulfillment of the requirement of the law, while laying aside the WAY the law says to meet that requirement. The requirement did not 'go away'. The WAY that requirement was temporarily fulfilled 'went away'. And went away because it is no longer needed, not because it got abolished. The requirement for blood continues to this very day. The old way of offering up that blood does not.

We could list many more examples.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I believe the law was added until the Seed should come, since the Seed has come, the law has vanished away in the light of the One who has cast the shadow.

Correct. The WAY of fulfilling the requirements of God, boxed up in the system and way of the first covenant, was added, and was then set aside with the appearance of Christ and his work on cross.

What you are arguing for, and don't realize, is the end of the WAY of the law of Moses, not the requirements in the law of Moses that it's own way sought to uphold.

The scripture doesn't say that.

The scripture says the law was added until...

The scripture does not say - the way the law is to be kept, or the way the law is to be obeyed,

It simply says, the law was added until.

Furthermore, the scripture says

In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

It doesn't say the way we keep the covenant or the requirements of the Covenant has vanished away, it says the Covenant has vanished away.

And again -

12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.Hebrews 7:12

This scripture says the law has changed.

Not the way the law is kept.

Not the way the requirements are kept, but the law itself has changed.

Again -

14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Colossians 2:14

Having WIPED OUT the requirements that was against us.

The requirements that you telling me that we are to keep, the scripture says, has been wiped out.


JLB

Quickly...( I really need to get some thing done today, lol).

The condemnation of the law, the debt of law for sinning, got nailed to the cross with Jesus. In the eyes of God we have no more sin guilt for the law to deal with. The debt of law (how to deal with sin guilt) got nailed to the cross as paid in full, being continually satisfied by the ever-present sacrifice of Christ continually making intercession for us in the Tabernacle in heaven.

The requirements of law for punishing sin guilt did not change. They continue forever. But that debt of law no longer applies to those who have satisfied that debt of law perfectly and forever through the work of Christ, not done away with the requirement to satisfy that debt of law. The law of punishment no longer applies to the believer (who continues to believe and walks by the Spirit). It did not get changed, or abolished. It is marked 'satisfied' in heaven for us when we believe and continue to believe in the finished work of Christ to not only remove our sin guilt but absorb the just and required, lawful payment for that sin. No end to a requirement of the law here. Just a fulfillment of a requirement of the law.


And read Hebrews carefully. You'll see that what was made obsolete is the WAY of the first covenant of temple, priesthood, and sacrifice, NOT THE REQUIREMENT OF LAW THOSE SERVED. Those very same requirements that first covenant temple, priesthood, and sacrifice served are now served IN THE NEW WAY OF CHRIST, AND FAITH IN CHRIST.

If you don't agree with that just show me there in Hebrews where the author says the Day of Atonement went unfulfilled because it is no longer needed. And I will show you where it shows that the Day of Atonement is no longer needed because it was fulfilled by the work of Christ. Deal?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law Romans 2:12

I agree with you, JLB.
I'd like to refer to the bolded part, to Romans 1 around verse 18. Paul, explains how those who were not given the oracles of God could be fairly judged by God. He gave them, the gentiles, the knowledge of Him, etc. We could say Cain, Abel, Abraham, Noah, etc. had this common knowledge of God and God's laws long before the "old covenant, made with Moses and the Hebrew (Israelites), which was the 613 laws, not just the 10.

Then in Romans 2, he says the Jews actually had an advantage because they had been given the oracles of God and that by that set of covenant laws they were judged.

In Romans 3, verse 28, Paul is referring back to both of the ways that one knows God's laws. Even though the knowledge of them was given in different ways.

Today we are led by the Spirit, the laws of God are actually indwelling us. Written on the hearts and minds.

Jesus did not just fulfill the Law of Moses in the 613 laws, He filled the Torah (the first five books written down by Moses) and the Prophets. Will one jot or tittle of the Torah pass away, no.

The Law of Moses, as in the 10 + 603
It was the "old covenant" the "old contract" that became obsolete (no longer in use). The new covenant, new contract is in force, is in use.
The old contract was made between God and Moses and the children of Israel accepted that contract.

The new contract was made between God and Jesus, as the Seed of Abraham (fulfilling the promise to Abraham) for all the children of God, all believers who accept the new contract.

The Jews today may think they have a contract with God under the Law of Moses. They cannot fulfill a contract that was already fulfilled by the Savior and is obsolete.
Why in the world would we want to say that the Christian church is under an obsolete contract, that they need to fulfill a contract that Jesus already fulfilled.

That covenant cannot be broken down and the sacrifices separated from the requirements, they are all part of the whole. If one thinks that anyone obeys the requirements of MOSES Law, then there has to be a blood atonement when one fails.
Jesus is NOT still hanging on that Cross. He totally and completely fulfilled ALL the requirements of MOSES Law.
He lived a sin free life fulfilling the requirements. And then paid the price for ALL of the sin of all mankind.
He now sits at the right hand of the Father in victory.

That covenant (contract) is over and done with.

This is just my understanding. JLB, or anyone is welcome to disagree and show me where I am wrong.

Blessings

Deb, I'll be back later, but a quick scan of your post shows me you're still talking about the WAY of the law of Moses, not the fundamental requirements of the law of Moses, but you just don't realize that's what you're talking about.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

And, JLB, why are the Jews still required to uphold the law that you say has vanished while the gentiles do not?

Think about what I'm asking. This is just one of the numerous flaws that pop up while I'm considering your doctrine about the passing away of the law. Help me out here.

 

[JLB]

And, JLB, why are the Jews still required to uphold the law that you say has vanished while the gentiles do not?

Think about what I'm asking. This is just one of the numerous flaws that pop up while I'm considering your doctrine about the passing away of the law. Help me out here.

Why would the Jews still be required to uphold the law?

Remember, Paul is teaching Jews who were born under the law.

Read what he taught the Gentile Church concerning these things.

1 Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, 2 but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father. 3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. 6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!" 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. 8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods. 9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain. Galatians 4:1-11

Read this phrase -

God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

And, JLB, why are the Jews still required to uphold the law that you say has vanished while the gentiles do not?

Think about what I'm asking. This is just one of the numerous flaws that pop up while I'm considering your doctrine about the passing away of the law. Help me out here.

Why would the Jews still be required to uphold the law?

Remember, Paul is teaching Jews who were born under the law.

Read what he taught the Gentile Church concerning these things.

1 Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, 2 but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father. 3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. 6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!" 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. 8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods. 9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain. Galatians 4:1-11

Read this phrase -

God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.


JLB

Don't make me think, lol!

In your own words...why do the Jews have to uphold the law by faith in Christ but the gentiles don't have too?

Truthfully, what you've posted shows all the more that 'we' does not mean just the Jews. If I, a gentile, am not under the requirements of the law then I do not need Christ, Jews do.

 

[JLB]

If I, a gentile, am not under the requirements of the law then I do not need Christ, Jews do.

11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law

14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, Romans 2:11-14


Abraham walked with God and was taught of God, and it was said of him that he obey God, God's laws and precepts and commands.

Abraham did not have a written code, and was declared righteous before circumcision.

26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; Romans 2:26-28

compare with -

13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.


the righteous requirements of the law...

wiped out the handwriting of requirements...

And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law ...

Do you think this phrase above means that the uncircumcised [Gentiles] are to fulfill the law of Moses?


JLB

 

[Sinthesis]

[MENTION=88699]Jethro Bodine[/MENTION], It would be helpful if you could define the way of the law, vs the requirements of the law, vs the requirements of God. I believe most of the contention in this thread is related to differing definitions of these terms.

I'm confident that you are correct in that assessment, lol.

The requirement of the law: Blood sacrifice for the removal of sin guilt.

The WAY of the law of Moses: The blood of an animal is applied in a specific manner in a specific place and time.

The WAY of faith in Jesus Christ: The blood of Jesus is applied, and applied when we place our trust in that blood.

See? The fulfillment of the requirement of the law, while laying aside the WAY the law says to meet that requirement. The requirement did not 'go away'. The WAY that requirement was temporarily fulfilled 'went away'. And went away because it is no longer needed, not because it got abolished. The requirement for blood continues to this very day. The old way of offering up that blood does not.

We could list many more examples.

I get your point, but I notice you didn't mention the Ten Commandments.
Is this the only requirement of the law? Do your 'many more examples' refer to other requirements, or are they just unfolded illustrations of this one law?
Also, do you believe the blood of animals actually removes sin guilt, or does it just point to the blood of Christ?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If I, a gentile, am not under the requirements of the law then I do not need Christ, Jews do.

11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law

14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, Romans 2:11-14


Abraham walked with God and was taught of God, and it was said of him that he obey God, God's laws and precepts and commands.

Abraham did not have a written code, and was declared righteous before circumcision.

26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; Romans 2:26-28

compare with -

13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.


the righteous requirements of the law...

wiped out the handwriting of requirements...

And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law ...

Do you think this phrase above means that the uncircumcised [Gentiles] are to fulfill the law of Moses?


JLB

I see you still don't understand what I've been saying. And the reason you're not getting this is because you continue to think only in terms of the literal ways of the law of Moses. Deb too.

I know it's a mountain to overcome in a person, so I'm not going to get frustrated trying to change your indoctrinated thinking. I don't blame you. I blame the church. So don't take it personally.

I guess we should go to the Hebrews passages that best illustrate what I've been saying here. Because of the way it's written it's hard to quote single verses that communicate the concepts of 'fulfillment' and 'vanishing away' (as your version of the Bible says) in regard to the law of Moses. We'll have to look at whole passages and comment about them as we go.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

[MENTION=88699]Jethro Bodine[/MENTION], It would be helpful if you could define the way of the law, vs the requirements of the law, vs the requirements of God. I believe most of the contention in this thread is related to differing definitions of these terms.

I'm confident that you are correct in that assessment, lol.

The requirement of the law: Blood sacrifice for the removal of sin guilt.

The WAY of the law of Moses: The blood of an animal is applied in a specific manner in a specific place and time.

The WAY of faith in Jesus Christ: The blood of Jesus is applied, and applied when we place our trust in that blood.

See? The fulfillment of the requirement of the law, while laying aside the WAY the law says to meet that requirement. The requirement did not 'go away'. The WAY that requirement was temporarily fulfilled 'went away'. And went away because it is no longer needed, not because it got abolished. The requirement for blood continues to this very day. The old way of offering up that blood does not.

We could list many more examples.

I get your point, but I notice you didn't mention the Ten Commandments.

In this thread I've used the example of the Sabbath requirement.

There is the fundamental requirement for Sabbath Rest. Then there is the WAY that is to be fulfilled in the law of Moses. What got laid aside was the WAY God's requirement for Sabbath Rest was fulfilled in the first covenant, not the requirement for Sabbath Rest itself. Apparently, JLB can't grasp what I'm saying because he's stuck in the rut of only thinking in terms of the literal Mosaic way to keep Sabbath.

The coming of Christ has made the literal Mosaic fulfillment for 'keeping' Sabbath obsolete (no longer needed). But when we believe in Christ, and walk in the Spirit, we enter into and fulfill, not abolish, God's requirement for Sabbath Rest. This is yet another example of how Christ came to fulfill the law, not abolish it.

Is this the only requirement of the law? Do your 'many more examples' refer to other requirements, or are they just unfolded illustrations of this one law?

No. Many other requirements. But all fulfilled through the work of Christ and our faith in Christ.

I used the example of blood sacrifice because it is probably the most easily understood and readily palatable by people unfamiliar with this Biblical teaching about fulfillment, not abolishment.

Also, do you believe the blood of animals actually removes sin guilt, or does it just point to the blood of Christ?

The blood did indeed remove sin guilt, but only until you sinned again, and then another animal had to be sacrificed for that new sin. It did, of course, point to the blood of Christ and his sacrifice, but a sacrifice that Hebrews explains does not need to be made over and over again, in effect making the believer forever free of sin guilt and the just penalty of the law for sin. A sacrifice that makes the believer perfect in the eyes of God.

There are denominations that understand and teach very well how Christ is the fulfillment of the requirements of the law for sacrifice, not the abolishment of the law of Moses in that regard. What is hard to do is get people to apply this same principle of fulfillment, and the upholding of the law of Moses this way, not the abolishment of the law of Moses, to other requirements of law also represented in the law of Moses. They do good with the sacrifice of Christ and the law, then they lose it completely when talking about all the other requirements of law the coming of Christ and faith in his work fulfills, not abolishes.

The point being, it's interesting how some people can see and believe that Christ is the fulfillment of the law in regard to sin sacrifice, but then fight you tooth and nail to suggest he, and faith in him, fulfill all the other requirements too, all at the same time as arguing that you can not break up the law into parts. See the inconsistency of that doctrine?

 

[JLB]

In this thread I've used the example of the Sabbath requirement.

There is the fundamental requirement for Sabbath Rest. Then there is the WAY that is to be fulfilled in the law of Moses. What got laid aside was the WAY God's requirement for Sabbath Rest was fulfilled in the first covenant, not the requirement for Sabbath Rest itself. Apparently, JLB can't grasp what I'm saying because he's stuck in the rut of only thinking in terms of the literal Mosaic way to keep Sabbath.

The coming of Christ has made the literal Mosaic fulfillment for 'keeping' Sabbath obsolete (no longer needed). But when we believe in Christ, and walk in the Spirit, we enter into and fulfill, not abolish, God's requirement for Sabbath Rest. This is yet another example of how Christ came to fulfill the law, not abolish it.



No. Many other requirements. But all fulfilled through the work of Christ and our faith in Christ.

I used the example of blood sacrifice because it is probably the most easily understood and readily palatable by people unfamiliar with this Biblical teaching about fulfillment, not abolishment.



The blood did indeed remove sin guilt, but only until you sinned again, and then another animal had to be sacrificed for that new sin. It did, of course, point to the blood of Christ and his sacrifice, but a sacrifice that Hebrews explains does not need to be made over and over again, in effect making the believer forever free of sin guilt and the just penalty of the law for sin. A sacrifice that makes the believer perfect in the eyes of God.

There are denominations that understand and teach very well how Christ is the fulfillment of the requirements of the law for sacrifice, not the abolishment of the law of Moses in that regard. What is hard to do is get people to apply this same principle of fulfillment, and the upholding of the law of Moses this way, not the abolishment of the law of Moses, to other requirements of law also represented in the law of Moses. They do good with the sacrifice of Christ and the law, then they lose it completely when talking about all the other requirements of law the coming of Christ and faith in his work fulfills, not abolishes.

The point being, it's interesting how some people can see and believe that Christ is the fulfillment of the law in regard to sin sacrifice, but then fight you tooth and nail to suggest he, and faith in him, fulfill all the other requirements too, all at the same time as arguing that you can not break up the law into parts. See the inconsistency of that doctrine?

There are denominations that understand and teach very well how Christ is the fulfillment of the requirements of the law for sacrifice, not the abolishment of the law of Moses in that regard. What is hard to do is get people to apply this same principle of fulfillment, and the upholding of the law of Moses this way, not the abolishment of the law of Moses, to other requirements of law also represented in the law of Moses. They do good with the sacrifice of Christ and the law, then they lose it completely when talking about all the other requirements of law the coming of Christ and faith in his work fulfills, not abolishes.

17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18

Did Christ fulfill all concerning the Law?

If He did, then obviously the phrase "pass from the law" is valid and requires the answer to the question; What has passed from the Law of Moses?

If Christ did not fulfill all concerning the Law of Moses, then obviously your statement that says -
They do good with the sacrifice of Christ and the law, then they lose it completely when talking about all the other requirements of law the coming of Christ and faith in his work fulfills, not abolishes.

Really is unfounded with no biblical support!

So which is it -

Did Christ fulfill all the law or Not?


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

The coming of Christ has made the literal Mosaic fulfillment for 'keeping' Sabbath obsolete (no longer needed). But when we believe in Christ, and walk in the Spirit, we enter into and fulfill, not abolish, God's requirement for Sabbath Rest. This is yet another example of how Christ came to fulfill the law, not abolish it.

We cannot fulfill what Christ already fulfilled (past tense).
A law that has no penalty for breaking it is not a law that has any power. It is obsolete (no longer has a use).
Those penalties (were nailed to the cross).
The penalties of that law were paid at the cross of Jesus. We cannot pay what has already been paid in full by Jesus.

So that is my understanding right or wrong.

Do you believe that the Jews need to follow the Law of Moses to the best of their ability?
If so, what for?

 

[reba]

Yet we have folks looking forward to another temple to reinstall those very laws?

 

[JLB]

Yet we have folks looking forward to another temple to reinstall those very laws?

Yes, Hastening The Day of The Lord.

11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. 2 Peter 3;11-13


JLB