Bible Study The Lie of Sinless Perfection.

[Tenchi]

Are you opining that we can walk in sin and in God ?
I hope not.

See post #82.

 

[Hopeful 2]

We were talking about two different books.

You seem to be, but I was referring to only one book of life.

The word (and) is in the Psalms passage. Between book of living and righteousness.

I similar to Jesus becoming a life giving Spirit. Which could seem to be the Holy Spirit. I do not think those are the same, but I do not know/have the words to explain the difference.

The books are opene. At judgement day, but I do not have the list of books.

I see through a glass darkly now.
At the last trump I will be changed and will be able to see.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Hopeful 2]

See post #82.

Apparently you are opining that there is sin-darkness in God.
I cannot agree.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Show an instance.

Quite a few times. Reread my posts.

God gave us all a conscience to know right from wrong.

You still haven't addressed that the theif did not know of God's existence or that it was He Who made it wrong.So he did not intend to rebel against God.

So you admit that "but concience!!" does not mean the theif knew God exists or that it was He Who made stealing wrong. Gotcha.

The "ruler" in this case is one's own conscience.

??
A Concience is not God.

That works fine for those familiar with some religions.

But for those without a knowledge of a supreme Being, their conscience is their guide, and how they will be judged. (Rom 2:15)

If it hurts one's own conscience, the religious would call that 'hurt' a sin.

No, for the deceitful human heart taints our innate concience.
So people sin even without knowing it is counter to God's Commands. Unintentional sin!
Are you telling me the concience is perfect????

I am not following.

Lust is a sin. Many times, un intentional.

If I enters a foreign country and blithely do something that is against their law, it is only a sin according to that nation.

God is omnipresent. Nations are not.
God's New Covenant is with humanity. Not just some groups.

True, but they still have a conscience by which they will be judged.

So if their concience is clear after stealing stuff, they'll go off scot free! LOL
Sin is Sin no matter what a fallible, sear-able "concience" says or doesn't say. Accept the FACT that un intentional sin exists. GOD Who made the concience is the Final Arbiter.

Still true though.
James wrote..."But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." (James 1:14-15)
Man can be tempted and enticed to satisfy a lust, (or a previous lust of one's pre-crucifixion with Christ days), but if he doesn't act on the temptation, (conception), no sin was committed.

You think this proves your point but doesn't.
Where is the "no tempt = no sin"? There's none. Eigesis.

I knew only some of His commands.

But how did you know they were His, before becoming a Christian, and not randomly evolved? Or put by buddha, alla of islam, or Krizzna from hinduism?? I call bluff.

I also knew many of the Law of Moses' additions, held by the OT Jews.

Before becoming Christian?

So you believed that God existed and knew all His commands before you became a Christian???

So you can't answer this directly because
1. Saying 'yes' would make a "lie r" of you??
2. Saying "no" would be admitting to un intentional sin.

Why I believed ?
I never thought about why I believed.

No, never thought about WHY you had the concience placed there. And why CERTAIN things were wrong and not others.

MY "standard" was the back of my mom's hand, or what ever she could get her hands on, when I was bad.

You just FELT your way through what was right and wrong before you realized there was the Solid Standard for morals.So before you were Christian, you sinned without intending to break God's Commands.

So yup. You still felt your way. Merely with assistance, no direct instruction from the Bible.
Your mom was a human. Before she converted to Christianity, she too would rely on herSELF and fallible concience for right and wrong. Or whatever non-Christian standard like bagvad gita or somthn.
Humans are SUBJECTIVE standard. Plus, moms do not get to decide what is sin, they are not God.
If you mom whacked you for accessing CF.net did that mean accessing it was a sin? No.

YAAAAAAA !

??

So just the ratio changes at belief/conversion ?
Where is the love for Jesus who died for your sins ?

It's in the person repenting of any slip ups along the way. Get rid of "all sin = intentional" belief and you'll be fine.

Such a slip betrays from whence one is actually born.

Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Repentance!

"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. (1 John 3:8-10)

Is it a sin if a kid runs out in front of your car and you kill him ?

Yes. Accidental sin.

Then you are an OT keeping Jew.

Nah, that's extrapolation.
Do you think the 10 Commands are null?
Why do you think un-intentional sin only existed under Mosaic law?
Better yet, you ADMIT IT DID EXIST? If so, we're getting somewhere.

Want to be saved ?
Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength...and love your neighbor as you love yourself.

Saved by love alone?? Whaaaat?

So even your "law" has exceptions.

Well I'm not under OT Covenant.

Yes.
But that is not "all" of the doctrine the converted follow.

Then.... why did you say THIS????

The gospel is "good news". I see no doctrine in it whatsoever.

Caught in 4K. Wonderful example of self contradiction.

So it is a sin when you kill that kid.

Yup. Doesn't mean you intended to kill. Doesn't mean you knew that the Biblical God existed and/or that He gave commands to follow.

Supra means...already covered earlier.

Ok

So killing that kid was sin.

supra!

No, it was the sinner who entertained the temptation.
The holy resist temptation.

You aren't rebutting, but supporting. As I said, the saint will be quick to get it out.

Rom 7:5

Yeah, that's about being in the flesh, doing sin after sin after sin.

For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.

That's nothing like the once in a while accidental sin in an average saved believers' life.

and 7:18 show that Paul is narrating past events.

For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

Dwells, is, is. 7:18 is about present events. Eigesis got you again!

 

[KV-44-v1]

Rom 7:23

" but I see a different law in the parts of my body waging war against the law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of the law of sin, the law which is in my body’s parts. "

Yup. Your concience is clearly fallible. All's are, until God sets them straight, and upgrades them. Regeneration.
Note the LOWERcase l.
"law OF MY MIND". If that dont sound like a concisence - Influenced by KNOWING of God's Commands even, - idk what does.
So fallible sin nature ("law" of the parts) VS Godly, regenerate concience (referred to as "law of mind").
Yup. Believers are not guranteed to never sin ever while they are alive and saved. They COULD but never gurantee. Again, your teaching is 1/2 the story. Or mabye less!

was answered in Rom 8:2,

"
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
"

Romans 8:3-4
"
3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
"
Obviously, Romans 8:2 is about the OT law. Note the UPPERcase L now. Different "law".

and Rom 7:24

"
Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?
"

was answered in Rom 6:6.

"
knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for the one who has died is freed from sin.
"
The old self that kept sinning, and likely withOut knowledge God was real.
And devoted more of its time to sin than God.

 

[electedbyHim]

Quite a few times. Reread my posts.


So you admit that "but concience!!" does not mean the theif knew God exists or that it was He Who made stealing wrong. Gotcha.


??
A Concience is not God.


No, for the deceitful human heart taints our innate concience.
So people sin even without knowing it is counter to God's Commands. Unintentional sin!
Are you telling me the concience is perfect????

Lust is a sin. Many times, un intentional.

God is omnipresent. Nations are not.
God's New Covenant is with humanity. Not just some groups.

So if their concience is clear after stealing stuff, they'll go off scot free! LOL
Sin is Sin no matter what a fallible, sear-able "concience" says or doesn't say. Accept the FACT that un intentional sin exists. GOD Who made the concience is the Final Arbiter.

You think this proves your point but doesn't.
Where is the "no tempt = no sin"? There's none. Eigesis.


But how did you know they were His, before becoming a Christian, and not randomly evolved? Or put by buddha, alla of islam, or Krizzna from hinduism?? I call bluff.

Before becoming Christian?


So you can't answer this directly because
1. Saying 'yes' would make a "lie r" of you??
2. Saying "no" would be admitting to un intentional sin.

No, never thought about WHY you had the concience placed there. And why CERTAIN things were wrong and not others.




So yup. You still felt your way. Merely with assistance, no direct instruction from the Bible.
Your mom was a human. Before she converted to Christianity, she too would rely on herSELF and fallible concience for right and wrong. Or whatever non-Christian standard like bagvad gita or somthn.
Humans are SUBJECTIVE standard. Plus, moms do not get to decide what is sin, they are not God.
If you mom whacked you for accessing CF.net did that mean accessing it was a sin? No.




??

It's in the person repenting of any slip ups along the way. Get rid of "all sin = intentional" belief and you'll be fine.

Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Repentance!






Yes. Accidental sin.



Nah, that's extrapolation.
Do you think the 10 Commands are null?
Why do you think un-intentional sin only existed under Mosaic law?
Better yet, you ADMIT IT DID EXIST? If so, we're getting somewhere.

Saved by love alone?? Whaaaat?



Well I'm not under OT Covenant.

Then.... why did you say THIS????



Caught in 4K. Wonderful example of self contradiction.

Yup. Doesn't mean you intended to kill. Doesn't mean you knew that the Biblical God existed and/or that He gave commands to follow.

Ok

supra!

You aren't rebutting, but supporting. As I said, the saint will be quick to get it out.


Yeah, that's about being in the flesh, doing sin after sin after sin.



That's nothing like the once in a while accidental sin in an average saved believers' life.



Dwells, is, is. 7:18 is about present events. Eigesis got you again!

This is correct, humans do sin without even knwing it.

Our conscience is a guide of right and wrong, but even that is tainted by sin if informed incorrecly.

Luther said, “It is neither right nor safe to go against my conscience.”

David new about hidden sins that he was not aware He did not even know they were sins. David was not talking about sins being committed in secret.

Psalms 19:12 Who can discern his errors? Acquit me of hidden faults.

Humans sin consciously and unconsciously.

Who can understand his errors?.... Sin is an error, a wandering out of the way of God, swerving from the rule of his word; and many mistakes are made by the people of God themselves; even so many that they cannot number them; they are more than the hairs of their head; they cannot understand, find out and express, neither their number, nor their evil nature, nor the many aggravating circumstances which attend them: this the psalmist said, upon a view of the large extent, glory, and excellency of the word of God; and upon comparing himself with it, in which, as in a glass, he saw how far short he came of it, and what a disagreement and want of conformity there was in him unto it; see Psa_119:97; and he suggests, that though the word he had been describing was perfect, pure, and clean, he was not; nor could he expect any reward of debt, but merely of grace, for his observance of it; and that it was best, under a sense of sin, to have recourse, not to works of righteousness done by men; but to the grace and mercy of God in Christ, as follows:

cleanse thou me from secret faults; by which are meant not such sins as are done in secret, and are unknown to men; such as David's sin with Bathsheba, 2Sa_12:12; nor the inward motions of sin in the heart, to which none are privy but God, and a man's own soul; not but that each of these may be properly enough included in such a petition; but sins, which are unknown to a man himself are meant: there are some actions, which, though known when committed, are not known to be sinful ones; and there are some sins which are committed unadvisedly, and through carelessness, and pass unobserved; not only many vain and sinful thoughts pass to and fro uncontrolled, without being taken notice of; but many foolish and idle words are spoken, and many evil actions, through infirmity and inadvertency, are done, which, when a good man, at the close of a day, comes to reflect upon the things that have passed in it, are quite hidden from him, are unknown to him, being unobserved by him; wherefore such a petition is highly proper to be inserted in his address at the throne of grace: and which also supposes the person sensible of the defiling nature of sin, and of his own impotency to cleanse himself from it; and that God only can do it, who does it by the application of the blood of his Son, which cleanses from all sin; for this respects not regenerating and sanctifying grace, but pardoning grace; a manifestation of it, a view of acquittance from sin by Christ, and of freedom from obligation to punishment for it.

Who can understand his errors? - It is not possible, without much of the Divine light, to understand all our deviations from, not only the letter, but the spirituality, of the Divine law. Frequent self-examination, and walking in the light, are essentially necessary to the requisite degree of spiritual perfection.

Cleanse thou me from secret faults - From those which I have committed, and have forgotten; from those for which I have not repented; from those which have been committed in my heart, but have not been brought to act in my life; from those which I have committed without knowing that they were sins, sins of ignorance; and from those which I have committed in private, for which I should blush and be confounded were they to be made public.

Ver. 12. Errors.—The word שְׁגִיאָה, which occurs only here, denotes the entire compass of unintentional sins, the ἀγνοήματα, which had happened בִּשְׁגָגָה, and even on this account not only concealed from men (Lev. 4:13, but likewise not even known by the person himself (Lev. 5:2 sq.), because they might have been committed unconsciously, but when they became known, were to be atoned for by offerings (Num. 15:22 sq.). In contrast with them are the trespasses (Num. 5:30 sq.), which are said to be committed with uplifted hand and as not to be atoned for, from which therefore the Psalmist wishes to be preserved.[1]

36 tn Heb “Errors who can discern?” This rhetorical question makes the point that perfect moral discernment is impossible to achieve. Consequently it is inevitable that even those with good intentions will sin on occasion.

37 tn Heb “declare me innocent from hidden [things],” i.e., sins. In this context (see the preceding line) “hidden” sins are not sins committed in secret, but sins which are not recognized as such by the psalmist.

[2]

---

[1]Lange, J. P., Schaff, P., Moll, C. B., Briggs, C. A., Forsyth, D. D., Hammond, J. B., McCurdy, J. F., & Conant, T. J. (2008). A commentary on the Holy Scriptures : Psalms (153). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
[2]Biblical Studies Press. (2006; 2006). The NET Bible First Edition Notes (Ps 19:12). Biblical Studies Press.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Quite a few times. Reread my posts.

I won't be checking for work that isn't there.

So you admit that "but concience!!" does not mean the theif knew God exists or that it was He Who made stealing wrong. Gotcha.

Right.
Men with no knowledge of God, still know that stealing is wrong

A Concience is not God.

Agreed

No, for the deceitful human heart taints our innate concience.

So Paul's Rom 2:15 is wrong ?

So people sin even without knowing it is counter to God's Commands. Unintentional sin!

If they offend their own conscience, it was intentional.

Are you telling me the concience is perfect????

If God gave it to us, it is perfect.
Do you suppose otherwise ?

Lust is a sin. Many times, un intentional.

Lust can be resisted, even by the unholy.
And not all lusts are sinful.
Is lusting to feed a thousand folks, a sin ?

God is omnipresent. Nations are not.
God's New Covenant is with humanity. Not just some groups.

Both statements are true.
If I enter some country and break one of their laws without knowing it was a law to them, how could I have intended to break their law ?
I didn't even know it was a law !

So if their concience is clear after stealing stuff, they'll go off scot free! LOL

Nobodies conscience would be so callous.

Sin is Sin no matter what a fallible, sear-able "concience" says or doesn't say. Accept the FACT that un intentional sin exists. GOD Who made the concience is the Final Arbiter.

I will abide by Paul's Rom 2:14-16 message that some are a law unto themselves.

You think this proves your point but doesn't.
Where is the "no tempt = no sin"? There's none. Eigesis.

Read James 1:14-15.
Temptation is key for a sin to be conceived.

But how did you know they were His, (commnadments) before becoming a Christian, and not randomly evolved? Or put by buddha, alla of islam, or Krizzna from hinduism?? I call bluff.

I didn't know they were anyone's commandments.
But I was born with a conscience that told me some things were wrong.

Before becoming Christian?

Yes, as I was in my fifties when I converted.

So you can't answer this directly because
1. Saying 'yes' would make a "lie r" of you??
2. Saying "no" would be admitting to un intentional sin.

It isn't "sin" if "sin" is unknown.
You can put labels on things and those labels mean nothing outside of your realm.
If I did something as a child that God would call sin, but I had no idea it was a sin, how could I intentionally break that commandment ?
I think you are just locked into the OT's unintentional sin bracket.

No, never thought about WHY you had the concience placed there. And why CERTAIN things were wrong and not others.

Why would I ?
I was only concerned with not being punished.

So yup. You still felt your way. Merely with assistance, no direct instruction from the Bible.

Correct.

Your mom was a human. Before she converted to Christianity,

She died young, and never converted.

she too would rely on herSELF and fallible concience for right and wrong.

I would suppose so.

Humans are SUBJECTIVE standard.

Huh ?

Plus, moms do not get to decide what is sin, they are not God.

True.

If you mom whacked you for accessing CF.net did that mean accessing it was a sin? No.

If I thought accessing this site was a sin, I wouldn't be here.
If it was a sin to others, but not to me, it wouldn't be a sin for me either.

??

You replied "No to my question of..."Can you walk in God, and in sin, at the same time?"...with a No.
I celebrated that.

It's in the person repenting of any slip ups along the way. Get rid of "all sin = intentional" belief and you'll be fine.

Jesus said that servants of sin hate God. (Matt 6:24)
They cannot serve two masters. (Matt 6:24)
Those you label "slippers", hate God, or they would serve Him in fear and trembling.

Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Repentance!

Posers can't keep their true selves hidden forever.

Yes. Accidental sin.

I can't believe you just wrote that !
You seem intent on remaining sullied for life, and adopt doctrines to insure it.

Nah, that's extrapolation.
Do you think the 10 Commands are null?

No, they are written in our hearts...or conscience, if you prefer.

Why do you think un-intentional sin only existed under Mosaic law?

Because that is the only place it is ever mentioned.

Better yet, you ADMIT IT DID EXIST? If so, we're getting somewhere.

So did circumcision for salvation.
Are you still under that mandate too ?

Saved by love alone?? Whaaaat?

Yes, as that is what Jesus told the scribe..."And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these." (Mark 12:29-31)

Well I'm not under OT Covenant.

Then why are you arguing OT points ?

Then.... why did you say THIS????

When I think "Gospel" I don't think "doctrine".
I use the term "doctrine" for the things one learns after they believe the gospel.

Caught in 4K. Wonderful example of self contradiction.

Just my own context.

Yup. Doesn't mean you intended to kill. Doesn't mean you knew that the Biblical God existed and/or that He gave commands to follow.

If you didn't intend to kill that kid, you won't even be fined in civil court.
But you say God will condemn you ?

You aren't rebutting, but supporting. As I said, the saint will be quick to get it out.

Hardly.
You can't seem to tell the difference between temptation and sin.

Yeah, that's about being in the flesh, doing sin after sin after sin.

That is right, and as Rom 7:5 says he was no longer in the flesh, we know he is talking about his past.

That's nothing like the once in a while accidental sin in an average saved believers' life.

There is no accidental sin. (James :14-15)

Dwells, is, is. 7:18 is about present events. Eigesis got you again!

Part of Paul's narrative about his past trying unsuccessfully to keep the Law.
Verse 5... "For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."

 

[Hopeful 2]

" but I see a different law in the parts of my body waging war against the law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of the law of sin, the law which is in my body’s parts. "

Yup. Your concience is clearly fallible. All's are, until God sets them straight, and upgrades them. Regeneration.

I can't call God's gift of a conscience fallible.

Note the LOWERcase l.

In what ?

"law OF MY MIND". If that dont sound like a concisence - Influenced by KNOWING of God's Commands even, - idk what does.

I agree, but that conscience is aware of the Mosaic Law...in his mind.

So fallible sin nature ("law" of the parts) VS Godly, regenerate concience (referred to as "law of mind").

Thanks be to God for using the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus to free us from that ! (Rom 8:2)

Yup. Believers are not guranteed to never sin ever while they are alive

True, but if they are in fact reborn of God, that is the way it will play out. (1 John 3:9)

and saved.

Salvation will be either granted or denied on the last day.

They COULD but never gurantee. Again, your teaching is 1/2 the story. Or mabye less!

That is right.
It takes work, and lots of it.
Prayer, and study.
More prayer, and more study.
Growing in grace and knowledge daily so we can be of further use to God.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

Amen!
Thanks be to God !

Romans 8:3-4
3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Obviously, Romans 8:2 is about the OT law. Note the UPPER case L now. Different "law".

I'm not so sure the law of sin in Paul's members, while still unconverted, was the Mosaic Law.
But I won't belabor the point.

Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

Answered in Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for the one who has died is freed from sin.
"
The old self that kept sinning, and likely withOut knowledge God was real.
And devoted more of its time to sin than God.

Yep, and now we can be free from it !
It starts with a real, true, permanent, repentance from sin.

 

[eddif]

"
knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for the one who has died is freed from sin.
"

D

Yep, and now we can be free from it !
It starts with a real, true, permanent, repentance from sin.

I have to agree with KV

On what basis ?

On the word (slaves)

A slave (one under the dominion of his master is not free).

If we are in Christ the dominion of sin is gone, but we do sin at times. Regretfully.

At the last trump we are free from sin in totality (free from death and sin).

Dominion of sin does not allow Christ Jesus in a persons life.

Repentance confesses sin
Salvation is the forgiveness of sin we confess.

Repentance is not salvation. John the Baptist said (And believe I’m the one who comes after me).


There is one name under heaven whereby we may be saved. The name is Jesus. It is not only John’s Repentance alone.

Pentecostals stress the one name. Maybe it can be expanded tooth far, but the one name fits.

Agape Love
Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Hopeful 2]

I have to agree with KV
On what basis ?
On the word (slaves)
A slave (one under the dominion of his master is not free).
If we are in Christ the dominion of sin is gone, but we do sin at times. Regretfully.

Then your freedom was an illusion.
It is written..."Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin". (John 8:34)

At the last trump we are free from sin in totality (free from death and sin).

You could be free now.
Why waste your entire life waiting for something available to you now ?

Dominion of sin does not allow Christ Jesus in a persons life.

Agreed.

Repentance confesses sin

No, repentance is a "turn from", and in this case, from sin.

Salvation is the forgiveness of sin we confess.

Salvation is the reward the righteous shall inherit.

Repentance is not salvation.

Agreed, but without a true repentance from sin, salvation is a dead issue.

John the Baptist said (And believe I’m the one who comes after me).

?

There is one name under heaven whereby we may be saved. The name is Jesus.

Yes.

It is not only John’s Repentance alone.

Nope, because without the baptism in water, now in the name of Jesus Christ, repentance will only be temporary.

Pentecostals stress the one name. Maybe it can be expanded tooth far, but the one name fits.

OK.

 

[eddif]

eddif said:
John the Baptist said (And believe I’m the one who comes after me).

I think that is a typo.
I‘m. Is supposed to be in.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[JLB]

Your verse 8 pertains to the sinners.

False!

• And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

We, us, ours = Christians
World = Sinners

Context shows us your error.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 1:8-2:2

 

[Hopeful 2]

eddif said:
John the Baptist said (And believe I’m the one who comes after me).

I think that is a typo.
I‘m. Is supposed to be in.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

Thanks, but that isn't an exact quote of John.
He said..."John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me." (John 1:15)

 

[Hopeful 2]

False!

Aren't those who walk in darkness walking in sin ?
Or do you have another definition of "darkness" ?
I use Pro 4:19..."The way of the wicked is darkness...".
As that way is sinful, darkness is sin.

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
We, us, ours = Christians
World = Sinners

Yep, and after your conversion to Christianity, you will no longer be 'of this world'.
After your repentance from sin, you won't be a sinner either: and you can walk in God-the light from then on !

Context shows us your error.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 1:8-2:2

Sinners walk in darkness, so they cannot say they have fellowship with God, or that they have no sin.
Those walking in the light can day they have fellowship with God, and that they have no sin.
There is so sin in God-the light, so if we are "IN HIM", we can't have sin on us either !

Walk in the light, and walk in God !

 

[Humblepie]

These people Jesus describes are people who truly believed they are saved. They probably think they are without sin as well, they plead with the judge in the end to try to make their case. They prayed in Jesus name, performed miracles, prophesied, probably attended church every Sunday.

What do you think they did wrong to not be accepted?

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will tell them, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.'

These would be the most terrifying words a person that believed in their hearts that they were truly saved, could ever hear.


What is lawlessness according to scripture?

 

[Humblepie]

There is so sin in God-the light, so if we are "IN HIM", we can't have sin on us either !

It's because God's grace washes away our sin if we confess our sin.

Don't be deceived.

 

[Hopeful 2]

These people Jesus describes are people who truly believed they are saved. They probably think they are without sin as well, they plead with the judge in the end to try to make their case. They prayed in Jesus name, performed miracles, prophesied, probably attended church every Sunday.

What do you think they did wrong to not be accepted?

Scripture says that they committed iniquity...sin.

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will tell them, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.'

Yep.

These would be the most terrifying words a person that believed in their hearts that they were truly saved, could ever hear.
What is lawlessness according to scripture?

Sin.
It is written..."Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." (1 John 3:4)

It is written..."Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;" (1 Tim 9-10)

It would be best to be a non-sinner on "that day".

 

[Hopeful 2]

It's because God's grace washes away our sin if we confess our sin.

Don't be deceived.

If He has washed away our sins, we can say we have no sin !
If we leave the light-God, however, we will again be walking in darkness-sin.
Commit to where you will walk.
It is written..."The way of the wicked is darkness..." (Pro 4:19)

 

[Humblepie]

If He has washed away our sins, we can say we have no sin !
If we leave the light-God, however, we will again be walking in darkness-sin.
Commit to where you will walk.
It is written..."The way of the wicked is darkness..." (Pro 4:19)

You can believe a false teaching if you wish, and obviously you're not open for correction, and I'm not going to debate you on this because there is no truth in your post. You have been shown the truth many times in this thread and many others and you reject it, therefore I will not cast pearls amongst the swine.

Jer 2:35
you say, ‘I am innocent; he is not angry with me.’ But I will pass judgment on you because you say, ‘I have not sinned.’

 

[Hopeful 2]

You can believe a false teaching if you wish, and obviously you're not open for correction, and I'm not going to debate you on this because there is no truth in your post. You have been shown the truth many times in this thread and many others and you reject it, therefore I will not cast pearls amongst the swine.

You have not shown the truth that Jesus spoke of in John 8:32-34.
Your version of the truth accommodates wickedness.
Jesus' didn't, and Jesus said His truth would free us from committing sin !

Jer 2:35
you say, ‘I am innocent; he is not angry with me.’ But I will pass judgment on you because you say, ‘I have not sinned.’

"Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)