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The Natural Man....

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The natural man receives not the things of the Spirit. 1Cor 2:14

I submit that a born from above believer has the Spirit of God dwelling in him/her. However, that not withstanding, the natural man may still be in control.
The result is when anything of the Spirit tries to impress upon them a thing, they hear it not, they receive it not. As if they were spiritually dead. Saved yes but without the hearing ear within. The new bees have yet to cultivate that hearing ear for sure. But a saint 50 years in Christ and still acting upon the reason of the 'old man' is not uncommon.
 
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The natural man is not a man in Christ. If you have a man that professes to be Christian, yet he/she still continues to live for the world, then you have yourself false convert. Yes these types of "Christians" are not uncommon. What is uncommon, are the actually Christians....
 
Not talking about those that stay in sin. I'm talking about those that continue in their own reason. Not hearing His still small voice.
 
I submit that a born from above believer has the Spirit of God dwelling in him/her. However, that not withstanding, the natural man may still be in control.
The result is when anything of the Spirit tries to impress upon them a thing, they hear it not, they receive it not. As if they were spiritually dead. Saved yes but without the hearing ear within.


I plead guilty. But the Lord isn't finished with me yet. :oops :pray
 
What reason would one have to continue in sin other then their love for darkness? If you choose to continue in sin, then you are not choosing God. Yes a Christian will fall at times, but the Christian will not nor have the desire to continue in sin.

Really, what is the difference between ones that stay in sin and those that continue in sin for their own reason. There is none.....

Don't get me wrong, A new child in Christ will struggle at first, but even then you will see immediate results, but if years go by and no signs of sanctification, good fruits, etc are being produced, then chances are, they were never born again.
 
We are told to turn from sin. Sometimes we refuse and continue the plan we formed instead.

One way that this happens is when convicted the sinner confesses but ignores.
  • Confess—then ignore. Example: A couple indulges in premarital sex and feels guilty.
    You know the story.

Another way (along the same lines): The addictive cycle. Confess, try really hard, feel guilty when confidence / strength fails, do it again. Use pleasure to distract from guilt. Rinse. Repeat.
  • Addictive Cycles: Example: Someone might not be planning the next descent into porn. They can confess the next nine falls (leaps?) into porn but a cycle of denial and complacency has taken root.

What to do about these types of 'plans' ? The Lord will bring us to a place (if we continue with Him) where we not only cast out our false idols but we will also spit at them while casting them away. Enlist a partner. A Pastor (that the Lord has given) may be a good candidate, but let it be someone you not only trust, but also one who has your respect. Pray. Seek God together. "When two or more of you come together in My Name, there also am I."

The above two examples are only that. Examples given to expose patterns that are common in all. No matter the struggle, know that it is the work of the Holy Spirit that convicts you; you will not be tried beyond endurance.

Some hand-to-hand combat against sin is in order. We are to 'take up our cross daily, deny self and follow after Jesus. This may include some public planning to either stand firm or run when there is another assault. All of this is both preceded and followed by our rest (full trust) in forgiveness of sin secured by Jesus.

Rest is spiritual, complacency sinful.
 
The natural man receives not the things of the Spirit. 1Cor 2:14

I submit that a born from above believer has the Spirit of God dwelling in him/her. However, that not withstanding, the natural man may still be in control.
The result is when anything of the Spirit tries to impress upon them a thing, they hear it not, they receive it not. As if they were spiritually dead. Saved yes but without the hearing ear within. The new bees have yet to cultivate that hearing ear for sure. But a saint 50 years in Christ and still acting upon the reason of the 'old man' is not uncommon.

Withheld, I agree with what your saying, but I think your misreading the text. You are wrestling with the question of why does the believer still sin. Another way to put that question is why is sin still with the believer.

In this text, that question is not addressed. Let me go through the context of 2 Cor 2.

5 that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

This issue here is faith. The question of verse 5 pertains to the source of faith. The source of faith is not the wisdom of men, but the power of God. I think this is a great verse to consider concerning evangelistic methodologies. We go about like we have the ability to persuade men. Without the power of God, no man will be persuaded through the wisdom of man.

10 But unto us God revealed them through the Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. In this verse, Paul is still addressing the question of verse 5 and the source of faith. Again, it is not the wisdom of man, but the Spirit of God who reveals the things of God. If you look above verse 10 in the context, you will see that even rulers cannot bring men to faith. How many rulers in the middle ages and before had forced conversions. Men were brought into Christianity through the persuasion of the sword of a ruler. Yet the text is clear that faith in Christ is not something that rulers can force upon people. The things of God come not from rulers, but from the Spirit of God.

14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged.
Finally, in verse 14, we have the reason that faith and the things of God cannot come from rulers, or any other man. The issue is the ability of men. The natural man cannot receive the things of God from man because or our status as a natural man. Receiving the things of God is just not in us. The natural man here speaks of our Adamic fallen nature.

So then, while I agree with you that the fallen nature is still with us, that issue is not a part of this passage. Romans 6 speaks of how Christ broke the power of the slave ownership of sin. The slave owner is not dead, but there is a death in Romans 6 (see verse 6). The death spoke of in Romans 6 is the death of slavery, not the slave owner. The slave owner is still alive and seeks mastery, but he has no legal right because Christs death made us free. While we are legally free, that does not mean there will be no struggle for freedom in practice. The slave owner is alive, but we are no longer slaves of the slave owner. We are now slaves of Christ and should live as such. This struggle for freedom from our former master (sin) is not the same thing as the natural man of 1 Cor 2. So then, while I agree with what you are saying, I think you are using the wrong text.
 
Well, I must have totally misunderstood the OP.

I didn't understand you to be saying that a believer is living in obvious sin. That I am not guilty of. Although, I am guilty of backbiting at times. On occasion I have bite the back of the likes of B. Hinn. I've been tempted to bite his face, with one strong letter of condemnation, but haven't Yet.

What I heard was that a believer can still be guilty of not listening. Of stepping out into something without praying about it, without paying attention to the Spirit's voice in our Spirit that says, don't go to that church, go to the other church. The Spirit moving you to pray about something or someone and you don't.
If you miss that voice, you may be sorry (bucks down the drain) or you may be missing out on a blessing that the Lord wants to give to you or give someone else, (not necessarily bucks).

Or pleading guilty before you really understand what you're pleading guilty, too. YIKE! Shut my mouth, Lord.

That you is in the third person, it includes me. Should have used we.
 
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[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION]: I reckon the New Birth (John 3, etc.) is the antidote and key to resolving all the problems posed by the natural man.

Blessings.
 
The natural man is still there. Our reason. Our intellect. Our common sense. Our judgement. All part of the natural man. We must refuse the natural man's way of thinking and learn to hear the Spirit.
I hope I am making this clear. Example: common sense says keep that twenty in your pocket. Proper judgement says hang on to it. The reasonable thing to do would be to leave the twenty where it's at.
The Spirit of God speaks to you 'give that twenty to that gal moving down the side walk. '
 
I said in another post that you can blow it and think God is speaking....'give such and such' ...and it wasn't Him. You feel a real red light inside. Pay attention to those green lights and red lights inside. God's talking.
 
1 Corinthians 1:19-31

New International Version (NIV)

19 For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”[a]

20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.
26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”[b]

We are not lean unto our own understanding which includes wisdom, logic, reason,etc.,etc..
 
The natural man receives not the things of the Spirit. 1Cor 2:14

I submit that a born from above believer has the Spirit of God dwelling in him/her. However, that not withstanding, the natural man may still be in control.
The result is when anything of the Spirit tries to impress upon them a thing, they hear it not, they receive it not. As if they were spiritually dead. Saved yes but without the hearing ear within. The new bees have yet to cultivate that hearing ear for sure. But a saint 50 years in Christ and still acting upon the reason of the 'old man' is not uncommon.
The Parable of the Ten Minas

11 While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12 He said: “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.[a] ‘Put this money to work,’ he said, ‘until I come back.’
14 “But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, ‘We don’t want this man to be our king.’
15 “He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.
16 “The first one came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned ten more.’
17 “‘Well done, my good servant!’ his master replied. ‘Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.’
18 “The second came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned five more.’
19 “His master answered, ‘You take charge of five cities.’
20 “Then another servant came and said, ‘Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. 21 I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.’
22 “His master replied, ‘I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? 23 Why then didn’t you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?’
24 “Then he said to those standing by, ‘Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’
25 “‘Sir,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’
26 “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’” Luke 19:11-27 NIV

The "Natural Man" will not understand this!
 
Paul talked about being in Christ and operating under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

He counted his own wisdom, reason, education, common sense, knowledge as manure.

What does God have to say about the worlds ways:
1 Corinthians 1:20

New International Version (NIV)

20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?



Our own God given faculties work for this world as they should....BUT....they will NOT work in gaining the knowledge of Christ. Paul attests to that fact.

Who was it that said to the educated scribes and Pharisees 'you do not enter the kingdom and you hinder others from entering as well'?
 
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Paul talked about being in Christ and operating under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

He counted his own wisdom, reason, education, common sense, knowledge as manure.

What does God have to say about the worlds ways:
1 Corinthians 1:20

New International Version (NIV)

20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?



Our own God given faculties work for this world as they should....BUT....they will NOT work in gaining the knowledge of Christ. Paul attests to that fact.

Who was it that said to the educated scribes and Pharisees 'you do not enter the kingdom and you hinder others from entering as well'?
I hope you realize the contradictory nature of your statements here. We've been through the same thing previously with your arguments against using reason.
 
Free...what contradiction?
You're using your "God given faculties" to say things about God, one of which is we can't gain knowledge of Christ with said faculties. You shoot yourself in the foot.

Besides being contradictory, it is just plain incorrect and based on taking Scripture out of context.
 
.
The natural man is born of Adam; while the spiritual man is born of God. Since the spiritual man is born of God, then the spiritual man is 110% sinless inside and out.

†. 1John 3:9 . .Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

The natural man is born with human life; while the spiritual man is born with eternal life. Since eternal life is an infinite level of life that's impervious to death, then the spiritual man is impervious to the wages of sin.

†. Rom 6:23 . .The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Buen Camino
/
 
Free, instead of slapping me around, just say you're not getting what I am saying. There's plenty I don't get....I admit it. See how easy that was?
Think about this. Why did Paul say that in him dwells no good thing, and that he was nothing without Christ?

And this. Why does Christ dwell in us and the Spirit will teach us all things if we can figure it all out by natural means?

If natural intellect, reason, logic, etc., etc. is all it takes to figure out the spiritual stuff, why then did Jesus tell Nicodemus that unless a man is born from above he cannot see/understand the kingdom of God?

And if our natural faculties were sufficient for understanding all things spiritual, why then did Jesus tell His disciples to tarry until the Holy Spirit comes on them? Why did He not just send them forth if they were already equipped?

He told them not to plan ahead what they would say if they were arrested and ordered to give an accounting before their captors. He said that God would give them what to say at that moment by the Holy Spirit. Their natural intellects and reasoning were overlooked by Christ for He knew anything proceeding from their mouths that was not birthed by the indwelling Spirit, would accomplish nothing, zero, zip!
 
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