The No-Trib Rapture Discussion

[researcher]

Fifth thought for all:
I heard that John of Rev. that they really do not know who he really is and only
believe he was a prisoner on the Island of Patmose, for there is no record of
his past generation ( family tree ) to verify who he is. So who is to say John
didn't actually write Rev. sooner and was not added to the bible until later, or
someone seeking to change time placed it at the end of the bible. For if you
move revelations closer to the beginning of the NT then it seems to all fall into
place of what Rev. is talking about, This is just a thought.

Good thought 4th. Some scholars place the writing of Revelation as early as 65AD.
If the last trumpet (7th) was the same as Paul was talking about, it would seem that that could have been common knowledge among the Apostles, and Paul could have alluded to it in (1Co 15:52). Unless of course it is the literal Jewish trumpet some have brought up.

1st Corinthians is dated at around 52-59AD. Since no one is sure exactly when either book was written, there would be some variables.

 

[Cornelius]

As for the marriage feast -

Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in mid heaven, Come and be gathered together unto the great supper of God;

Rev 19:21 and the rest were killed with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, even the sword which came forth out of his mouth: and all the birds were filled with their flesh..............

Brother I would seriously hit the delete button on this last interpretation if I were you. :yes

This is the supper of God and definitely not the marriage feast. How long has it been since you have attended a wedding bro ?

The wedding feast between the Lamb and His bride is a feast and the meal is the Bread and Wine of the Word of God. I will post you the meaning of the wedding in Cana

 

[Shilohsfoal]

[We weren't there, so, we don't know what happened.

Sure we know what happened.That generation passed away.
I'll tell you a little something that took me years to understand.
There are 144,000 people who can understand Jesus better than anyone else in the last 2000 years and theres a reason why.He is speaking to them.


The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

 

[researcher]

[We weren't there, so, we don't know what happened.

Sure we know what happened.That generation passed away.
I'll tell you a little something that took me years to understand.
There are 144,000 people who can understand Jesus better than anyone else in the last 2000 years and theres a reason why.He is speaking to them.


The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Why years? When the HS shows you something, you understand it in a split second.

 

[Cornelius]

Joh 2:1 And the third day (Notice WHEN there is a wedding feast) there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother (woman on the moon Rev 12) of Jesus was there:
Joh 2:2 and Jesus also was bidden, and his disciples, to the marriage.
Joh 2:3 And when the wine failed,(The wine has been failing in the church for some time now ) the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
Joh 2:4 And Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. (Jesus knew His time would only come , once the end is here, then the water of the Word must be turned into the Wine: Eternal life )
Joh 2:5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
Joh 2:6 Now there were six waterpots of stone set there after the Jews' manner of purifying, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Six= number of man, We are all vessels in the great house of God)
Joh 2:7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.(The water is the Word of God. We need to be filled to the brim with it )
Joh 2:8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the ruler of the feast. And they bare it. (On this feast day, that will start on the third day, Jesus will change the Word in His people into eternal life as He manifests Himself through them in the man child ministry of Rev 12)
Joh 2:9 And when the ruler of the feast tasted the water now become wine, and knew not whence it was (but the servants that had drawn the water knew), the ruler of the feast calleth the bridegroom,
Joh 2:10 and saith unto him, Every man setteth on first the good wine; and when men have drunk freely, then that which is worse: thou hast kept the good wine until now. (The manifestation of eternal life while still walking this planet, is going to happen to those who walk in the end "last" )
Joh 2:11 This beginning of his signs did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

Manifested His glory is what He is going to do. Christ in you the hope of glory. From glory to glory

Mat 17:1 And after six days (There is that number again!)Jesus (man child) taketh with him Peter, and James, and John his brother, (bride)and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart: (Kingdom of God is a mountain)
Mat 17:2 and he was transfigured before them; and his face did shine as the sun, and his garments became white as the light. (He manifested His glory )
Mat 17:3 And behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elijah talking with him.(the two witnesses )

 

[Cornelius]

I have many more examples that fits this pattern 100%

ALL pointing to one thing: After 6000 years, there will come a day when Jesus will shine through His chosen people ON THIS EARTH. He will manifest His glory in and through them.They will feast on His unleavened Word for seven years. At the same time the whole of mankind that is ant-Christianity and Christ, will go through the worst time, this planet has ever seen, while the children of God do greater works than the works Jesus did , while He was on the earth.

Christians will stay alive by applying their faith and utilizing the promises of God. All who have not learned to do this, will perish, because the system they have know, like money, will fall away and they will have nothing that will feed them, cure them and keep them safe.

 

[Cornelius]

The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Ah, somebody who have noticed ! :P

 

[researcher]

As for the marriage feast -

Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in mid heaven, Come and be gathered together unto the great supper of God;

Rev 19:21 and the rest were killed with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, even the sword which came forth out of his mouth: and all the birds were filled with their flesh..............

Brother I would seriously hit the delete button on this last interpretation if I were you. :yes

This is the supper of God and definitely not the marriage feast. How long has it been since you have attended a wedding bro ?

The wedding feast between the Lamb and His bride is a feast and the meal is the Bread and Wine of the Word of God. I will post you the meaning of the wedding in Cana

Hey! I thought Jesus was God?! The marriage supper of Jesus, the great supper of Jesus. What's the dif?! :D No, I'm just playin'. ;) :D

At any rate, if they are different, they would occur at roughly the same time. The point was more, the armies of the beast aren't literally killed by a literal sword, and aren't eaten by literal birds. The sword is the word of God, and, the birds are spirits, demons, etc. Whichever. And since the gospel was preached to the whole world (Rom 16:26) and they didn't believe, they were as good as dead. :D

 

[researcher]

With that I must close. If it's morning in SA, that means it's late night in California. And I have conf. calls in the a.m. :crazy

I'll check the replies tomorrow. ;) :D

I'll leave you with this

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.

Been a long time since that generation. :o ;) :D

Look forward to the responses! :D

 

[Cornelius]

With that I must close. If it's morning in SA, that means it's late night in California. And I have conf. calls in the a.m. :crazy

I'll check the replies tomorrow. ;) :D

I'll leave you with this

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.

Been a long time since that generation. :o ;) :D

Look forward to the responses! :D

Now that would be correct. This generation who is alive when the figtree starts to bud, will certainly not pass away , till all these things be accomplished. So get ready !

Mat 24:32 Now from the fig tree learn her parable: when her branch is now become tender, and putteth forth its leaves, ye know that the summer is nigh;
Mat 24:33 even so ye also, when ye see all these things, know ye that he is nigh, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.

 

[Cornelius]

At any rate, if they are different, they would occur at roughly the same time. The point was more, the armies of the beast aren't literally killed by a literal sword, and aren't eaten by literal birds. The sword is the word of God, and, the birds are spirits, demons, etc. Whichever. And since the gospel was preached to the whole world (Rom 16:26) and they didn't believe, they were as good as dead. :D

That is right, we will have the wedding feast at the same time as the supper of God.
Its the final war this planet will ever see. Some people have their heads in the sand right now and are refusing to see what is happening in the world. How the US government is leading us all to the One Word Order. They are in denial. There are even people who are NOT Christians, that seem to know more than Christians about the time we live in.

C

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Why years? When the HS shows you something, you understand it in a split second.

The holy spirit has to show you before you would understand it in a split second.
There might be people who claim to have learned everything there is to learn in a split second but thats not happening with me.I may have learned one subject ten years ago and I may learn a different subject today.

 

[Vic C.]

When Jesus said to his disciples that all these things (tribulations ) shall come
to pass unto ( this generation.) When Jesus said ( this generation ) I wonder if
he even meant a baby that was just born, because the baby also would have
been part of ( this generation.) And if so you could say the baby lived to be at
least 100 years old, then the Tribulations could have lasted from the time
Jesus was crucified + 100 years. So that could mean about 30 to 130 AD.

Rarely did anyone in the first century lived to be 100. It doesn't happen that often in the 21st. century. ;) A generation in Biblical terms is about 40 years. So lets see, 30 + 40 = 70. :shocked! :help

 

[researcher]

With that I must close. If it's morning in SA, that means it's late night in California. And I have conf. calls in the a.m. :crazy

I'll check the replies tomorrow. ;) :D

I'll leave you with this

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.

Been a long time since that generation. :o ;) :D

Look forward to the responses! :D

Now that would be correct. This generation who is alive when the figtree starts to bud, will certainly not pass away , till all these things be accomplished. So get ready !

That's what I used to think. But, who was Jesus' audience in those scriptures?

Mat 24:3 ...the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them,....
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.

Let's see how he used the word generation in other areas -

Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ

Mat 11:16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation?

Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given it but the sign of Jonah the prophet:

Mat 17:17 And Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I bear with you? bring him hither to me.

Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Luk 11:50 that the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, ; may be required of this generation

Luk 17:25 But first must he suffer many things and be rejected of this generation.

Act 13:36 For David, after he had in his own generation served the counsel of God, fell asleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

His audience during that discourse was the disciples, and the people of that generation, who lived then.

What was included in that discourse that would happen in their generation?
Jerusalem surrounded and destroyed (Luk 21:20)
Second coming (Mat 24:30)
Rapture (Mat 24:31)
And everything else.

Funny thing about the wording of this verse -
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

In Greek, it means, "to come near," or "aside."

Strong's definition for "pass away"
G3928
parerchomai
From G3844 and G2064; to come near or aside, that is, to approach (arrive), go by (or away), (figuratively) perish or neglect, (causatively) avert: - come (forth), go, pass (away, by, over), past, transgress.

The interpretation is used very liberally for many things in the Bible including pass, away, passed, past, came, come, forth, go, over, passeth etc.

I suppose you could say, Heaven and earth did come near. To each other!

Jesus said it, and surely enough, he came back for them, like he said. Then, away they went.

 

[researcher]

At any rate, if they are different, they would occur at roughly the same time. The point was more, the armies of the beast aren't literally killed by a literal sword, and aren't eaten by literal birds. The sword is the word of God, and, the birds are spirits, demons, etc. Whichever. And since the gospel was preached to the whole world (Rom 16:26) and they didn't believe, they were as good as dead. :D

That is right, we will have the wedding feast at the same time as the supper of God.
Its the final war this planet will ever see. Some people have their heads in the sand right now and are refusing to see what is happening in the world. How the US government is leading us all to the One Word Order. They are in denial. There are even people who are NOT Christians, that seem to know more than Christians about the time we live in.

C

There are two wars in Revelation. They are separated by the millenium. Chapter 19 is the first one, chapter 20 is the second one.

In one Israel (Jerusalem) is destroyed, in the other, it is protected.

And this is the end result of the second one - (See Ezekiel 38 & 39 for Gog)
Eze 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am Jehovah their God, from that day and forward.

 

[researcher]

When Jesus said to his disciples that all these things (tribulations ) shall come
to pass unto ( this generation.) When Jesus said ( this generation ) I wonder if
he even meant a baby that was just born, because the baby also would have
been part of ( this generation.) And if so you could say the baby lived to be at
least 100 years old, then the Tribulations could have lasted from the time
Jesus was crucified + 100 years. So that could mean about 30 to 130 AD.

Rarely did anyone in the first century lived to be 100. It doesn't happen that often in the 21st. century. ;) A generation in Biblical terms is about 40 years. So lets see, 30 + 40 = 70. :shocked! :help

Exactly. Webster's - Generation - 1 a: a body of living beings constituting a single step in the line of descent from an ancestor

A generation is not 2000 years. It's from father to son.

Father - 1st generation
Son - 2nd
Grandson - 3rd
Great-grandson - 4th etc.

 

[researcher]

Why years? When the HS shows you something, you understand it in a split second.

The holy spirit has to show you before you would understand it in a split second.
There might be people who claim to have learned everything there is to learn in a split second but thats not happening with me.I may have learned one subject ten years ago and I may learn a different subject today.

OK, gotcha! :D I should have said, "you know it's true." It may take some time to study and understand why it is that way ;)

 

[4thangelofEuphrates]

I thought I would add another thought, but first I would like to say
that ( Vic c ) may be right about the generation time line and yes ( reasearcher ) a
generation is from father to son and is not a 2000 year thing. I also would like to say
even ( shilohsfoal ) is correct about the revealing of the things concerning the kingdom
of God, for even Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven was like a woman that took
and hid ( three measure of meal ) till the whole thing was leavened, meaning you are
taught a little here and a little there. I also see that ( C. ) even has some interesting
and good posts.

So now on to the thought:

Seventh thought for all:
( this one I will let you that know the bible better then me to determine this one and
would like your thoughts on it, but keep in mind this is just a thought. )
This one deals with John of Rev., now this John was showed a lot of things that were
to come to pass. What I was wondering is, there is one person in the NT that has
returned to the earth at least once after he was taken from the earth, and
he knew Jesus even before he was born in flesh and he was also a prophet and his
name was John. Now the question: If John of Rev. was actually John the Baptist would
Rev. make more sense or less? because that would place Rev. before Jesus was
crucified. I say this because Elijah was the only one that left earth and then came back
as John the Baptist, and the John in Rev. 10:10-11 must come again and prophesy before,
many people, nations, tongues and kings, and only Elijah was and did come again as
( John the Baptist ), so could he be the John of Rev. and shall come again? which would
mean coming 3 times.

I will end with: I give my thoughts because I try to keep my mind open so that I don't
become so closed minded that I am not willing to learn or to see things in a different
way, therefore if it is something that may have some credit to it I will ponder on it until
I either can cast it away or keep it as worthy, but until then it stays as a thought with
not much value.

 

[Cornelius]

That's what I used to think.

Don't worry, nobody is holding this against you You are just having a slight episode here .

 

[Vic C.]

I thought I would add another thought, but first I would like to say that ( Vic c ) may be right about the generation time line

Thanks. I brought it up mainly because I remember the forty years in the desert; the time allotted by God for the older generation to pass.