The power of The Cross

[Mitspa]

People talk about the Power of the Cross, but yet they teach that the Cross is powerless unless man first does something to release or activate its power, until then, it does nothing ! What thats called is stated by Paul here !

2 Tim 3:5

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Well I believe like all things it works according to your faith!
I believe in real power, not in words that mans wisdom teaches, but in demonstation of The Holy Spirit, as Paul describes.
Seeing how I believe in faith, and its power! please turn away from me! lol

 

[Mitspa]

All things work together for good, for those who love Him

Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Many find the thought of the Cross a harsh thing, and it seems few find the need to visit its purpose at all? For one to enter into the deeper things of God, one must use its power against the "lie" that abides in every mans "flesh". The flesh is convinced that it need not give up its dominion over the body, it keeps itself enthroned by the lie, (ye shall not surely die). The Cross, although at times is painful, is our greatest weapon against our on "flesh". "The pain may last for the night but the joy comes in the morning"

An uncrucified man, will think himself worthy and able to inherit the Kingdom of God. But not flesh can pass the Cross. Only the New Creation, the new man has access to the Wisdom of The Cross of Christ.

Here a man must become a fool to be made wise. Weak to be made strong!

At the Cross of the Lord, the place where God suffered for all the sins of the men, that He made, a new heaven and new earth was opened to all who will believe.

 

[savedbygrace57]

mitsa

Well I believe like all things it works according to your faith!

Thats what I am saying, you should preach the power of your faith over the Power of the Cross !

 

[Mitspa]

mitsa



Thats what I am saying, you should preach the power of your faith over the Power of the Cross !

Well you are welcome to your own opinion!
You have words, I have power!

I wonder who really understands the Cross?
The one who talks about salvation, and the Cross?

Or the one who lives by the power and demonstates that power?

I will let you keep your empty words!
I will continue in the Power of His death and His life!

I have no real issue with you who think you are "elect"?
You guys hurt no one nor help no one.
But keep floating that "elect" bubble around as if it means something? Be careful, you might get your bubble busted?

When the real power of God shows up, I have seen mormons and J witnesses, and every other cult. Cast away all their religious nonsense, and turn to Christ and His Power!

 

[Mitspa]

Php 2:5

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Php 2:9

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11

And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.



For God Himself came and suffered for our sins. "He humbled Himself" that we might have a place to humble ourselves.

How much pride in man, that he will not bow his knee to this good and humble God? Be sure it is the pride of man that will condemn those who will not see His good Work!

He ask for but a humble confession, yet many would not even grant that He deserves this?



Isa 16:5

And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.
Isa 16:6

We have heard of the pride of Moab; he is very proud: even of his haughtiness, and his pride, and his wrath: but his lies shall not be so.

Paul tells us in 1Cor that mans wisdom would make the Cross of no effect?
For what mans wisdom fails to see? That God had to have justice against the sins of man. That the law of sin and death demanded that man pay the price for sin. This God did Himself with that which He loved the most!

Here is the key point in time for all men!
Some say He did not pay the price?
Some say that He paid but we dont really have to believe!
I and the Apostles and scriptures say! He won the greatest of victories for all you believe!

 

[Mitspa]

Paul tells us in 1Cor that mans wisdom would make the Cross of no effect?
For what mans wisdom fails to see? That God had to have justice against the sins of man. That the law of sin and death demanded that man pay the price for sin. This God did Himself with that which He loved the most!

Here is the key point in time for all men!
Some say He did not pay the price?
Some say that He paid but we dont really have to believe!
I and the Apostles and scriptures say! He won the greatest of victories for all you believe!

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

THE WORD BECAME FLESH AND DWELT AMONG US.

Jesus Christ was and is God! Now do I understand all that means? No! but it is written and clear in scripture!
"God was manifest in the flesh"

Now God made man, and man does not decide what Gods justice is, God decides! At the Cross, God in the flesh, suffered for the sins of man. That by the Cross all who believe have been forgiven forever , by the one sacrifice.
" for He has perfected forever, those who have faith in His Blood"

Now where is all this perfection and unforgiveness and blessing? Well if any have ever come to the Cross, they came by spirit and truth! For over 2000 years ago He did die upon the tree.
Some will say, we are not perfected? well if you are looking at the flesh, your right! I say if you believe you are saved by The Cross that you cannot see? why can you not believe in the perfection of the spirit within you?

"know ye not, that the Holy Spirit dwells within you"

So God paid the price for sin, against Himself! If He has justified? who can condemn?

The problem is that we do not see How much God the Father honors God the Son! We are nothing, but because He loved us and bought us with His Own Blood! We are of great value!

The Cross is Gods greatest statement of love for all men. If one does not honor the Cross, they do not honor God!

 

[iLOVE]

Amen.

 

[Mitspa]

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

THE WORD BECAME FLESH AND DWELT AMONG US.

Jesus Christ was and is God! Now do I understand all that means? No! but it is written and clear in scripture!
"God was manifest in the flesh"

Now God made man, and man does not decide what Gods justice is, God decides! At the Cross, God in the flesh, suffered for the sins of man. That by the Cross all who believe have been forgiven forever , by the one sacrifice.
" for He has perfected forever, those who have faith in His Blood"

Now where is all this perfection and unforgiveness and blessing? Well if any have ever come to the Cross, they came by spirit and truth! For over 2000 years ago He did die upon the tree.
Some will say, we are not perfected? well if you are looking at the flesh, your right! I say if you believe you are saved by The Cross that you cannot see? why can you not believe in the perfection of the spirit within you?

"know ye not, that the Holy Spirit dwells within you"

So God paid the price for sin, against Himself! If He has justified? who can condemn?

The problem is that we do not see How much God the Father honors God the Son! We are nothing, but because He loved us and bought us with His Own Blood! We are of great value!

The Cross is Gods greatest statement of love for all men. If one does not honor the Cross, they do not honor God!

The deception of the flesh is so great that it finds its greatest glory in religion? Just as the father of sin, satan finds his greatest power comes when he mask himself as God, or an angel of light, also the flesh is at its strongest when it cloaks itself in religion.

The flesh will lead one to a church, a prayer group, to give alms to the poor, to fast and to pray. Even to a christian forum?

One place the flesh will never allow a "believer" to go? The flesh will go everywhere and partake of all religious activity, but it fears the Cross of Christ more than even physical death!

Because at the Cross, just as the bronze serpent was lifted up, sin in the flesh is judged! At the Cross of Christ the power of God is brought againt the great lie of sin? "thou shalt not surely die" Well no one can take you there or force any to go! But know that it is your FLESH that tells you that you need not die with Christ!

Many seem to think that the scriptures are speaking vain things? When it says become a fool to be made wise, or weak to be made strong?

These are not things we do in front of other men to be seen by men as humble or religious! These things, the deep work of the Cross is done in secret. It cannot be a public display, its a private commitment to a personal God.

Commit your way unto the Lord, lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths.

 

[savedbygrace57]

mitsa

Well you are welcome to your own opinion!

As you are, and from your posts I see that you exalt the power of mans faith over and above the Power of Christ's Cross !

 

[Mitspa]

The deception of the flesh is so great that it finds its greatest glory in religion? Just as the father of sin, satan finds his greatest power comes when he mask himself as God, or an angel of light, also the flesh is at its strongest when it cloaks itself in religion.

The flesh will lead one to a church, a prayer group, to give alms to the poor, to fast and to pray. Even to a christian forum?

One place the flesh will never allow a "believer" to go? The flesh will go everywhere and partake of all religious activity, but it fears the Cross of Christ more than even physical death!

Because at the Cross, just as the bronze serpent was lifted up, sin in the flesh is judged! At the Cross of Christ the power of God is brought againt the great lie of sin? "thou shalt not surely die" Well no one can take you there or force any to go! But know that it is your FLESH that tells you that you need not die with Christ!

Many seem to think that the scriptures are speaking vain things? When it says become a fool to be made wise, or weak to be made strong?

These are not things we do in front of other men to be seen by men as humble or religious! These things, the deep work of the Cross is done in secret. It cannot be a public display, its a private commitment to a personal God.

Commit your way unto the Lord, lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths.

Please rspond to the post or the thread in general! Or you will be ignored! the works of the flesh are manifest!

That means, that folks can see it!

 

[Mitspa]

The deception of the flesh is so great that it finds its greatest glory in religion? Just as the father of sin, satan finds his greatest power comes when he mask himself as God, or an angel of light, also the flesh is at its strongest when it cloaks itself in religion.

The flesh will lead one to a church, a prayer group, to give alms to the poor, to fast and to pray. Even to a christian forum?

One place the flesh will never allow a "believer" to go? The flesh will go everywhere and partake of all religious activity, but it fears the Cross of Christ more than even physical death!

Because at the Cross, just as the bronze serpent was lifted up, sin in the flesh is judged! At the Cross of Christ the power of God is brought againt the great lie of sin? "thou shalt not surely die" Well no one can take you there or force any to go! But know that it is your FLESH that tells you that you need not die with Christ!

Many seem to think that the scriptures are speaking vain things? When it says become a fool to be made wise, or weak to be made strong?

These are not things we do in front of other men to be seen by men as humble or religious! These things, the deep work of the Cross is done in secret. It cannot be a public display, its a private commitment to a personal God.

Commit your way unto the Lord, lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths.

Most dont seem to understand that water baptism is a picture of death with Christ? For in death we admit that we are unable to please God by the flesh we received from Adam.

For law demanded death for sin, and Christ did pay that price on the Cross. So then in baptism we are saying I agree and I choose to die with Christ to all that I was.

Also we see the resurrection when we are raised from the waters of judgment. And we breath again the newness of life in Christ Jesus.

In the book of Heb, we read of those who turn back into law, and one of the strongest warnings of the New Testament is given? That some have come to certain levels of knowledge in Christ, if they turn back to law? It is impossible to renew them into repentance again, seeing that they have to crucify Christ anew to themselves!

So then all true repentance comes at the Cross, where we admit we cannot and we look to Him who did it all.

Take up your Cross and follow me? That is not a religious call to works! its a call to die to the flesh, and live in the Spirit of Life.
Paul said he was determined to know nothing but Christ and Him crucified? This is not just vain religious words. This is the place where we see the victory and the cost of our sin, and the love that God has for us.

 

[Mitspa]

Most dont seem to understand that water baptism is a picture of death with Christ? For in death we admit that we are unable to please God by the flesh we received from Adam.

For law demanded death for sin, and Christ did pay that price on the Cross. So then in baptism we are saying I agree and I choose to die with Christ to all that I was.

Also we see the resurrection when we are raised from the waters of judgment. And we breath again the newness of life in Christ Jesus.

In the book of Heb, we read of those who turn back into law, and one of the strongest warnings of the New Testament is given? That some have come to certain levels of knowledge in Christ, if they turn back to law? It is impossible to renew them into repentance again, seeing that they have to crucify Christ anew to themselves!

So then all true repentance comes at the Cross, where we admit we cannot and we look to Him who did it all.

Take up your Cross and follow me? That is not a religious call to works! its a call to die to the flesh, and live in the Spirit of Life.
Paul said he was determined to know nothing but Christ and Him crucified? This is not just vain religious words. This is the place where we see the victory and the cost of our sin, and the love that God has for us.

I see this over and over? Christians who walk in unbelief and the desires of the flesh, who get sick or come to trial, and then attempt to claim that they are suffering with Christ?

Many rejoice in the plan of salvation, and are truly saved! But they continue on in the life and energy of the natural man.
They fail to see that the flesh and natural life must be put to the Cross of Christ. That a New Life and New Divine nature must take the place of the old.

" I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ liveth in me"

The enemy "satan" is not concerned at all with our rule keeping or our church service. He fears one thing and one thing only?

That is CHRIST IN YOU!

the flesh will maintain its life as long as we allow it. It will deceive the believer, even to the point where we call our unbelief , suffering with Christ!

No! when one sows to the flesh they reap from the flesh!
The crucified believer, suffers with Christ, because the Life of Christ has been working in and through them.

 

[ezra]

if we leave the power of the cross....our sin debt was paid then scratch out the blood atonement also..... along with Galatians 2:20

 

[JCitoL]

the "cross" first is the Sacrifice of the Lord - Jesus Christ for the Sake of overall salvation, while it second is the right faith in Him and His God the Father - the "cross" is the most powerful thing in the universe

Blessings

 

[Mitspa]

The deception of the flesh is so great that it finds its greatest glory in religion? Just as the father of sin, satan finds his greatest power comes when he mask himself as God, or an angel of light, also the flesh is at its strongest when it cloaks itself in religion.

The flesh will lead one to a church, a prayer group, to give alms to the poor, to fast and to pray. Even to a christian forum?

One place the flesh will never allow a "believer" to go? The flesh will go everywhere and partake of all religious activity, but it fears the Cross of Christ more than even physical death!

Because at the Cross, just as the bronze serpent was lifted up, sin in the flesh is judged! At the Cross of Christ the power of God is brought againt the great lie of sin? "thou shalt not surely die" Well no one can take you there or force any to go! But know that it is your FLESH that tells you that you need not die with Christ!

Many seem to think that the scriptures are speaking vain things? When it says become a fool to be made wise, or weak to be made strong?

These are not things we do in front of other men to be seen by men as humble or religious! These things, the deep work of the Cross is done in secret. It cannot be a public display, its a private commitment to a personal God.

Commit your way unto the Lord, lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths.

The Cross is the place of complete surrender to God and His will. All "free-will" of man, must be brought to His Cross. All wisdom, all strength of the natural life of man, must be submitted to the Truth of His Death.

For they going about to establish their own righteousness have not SUBMITTED to the righteousness of God.

ALL those who claim they are keeping any part of the law, are in fact enemys of the Cross.
ALL those who attempt to justify their flesh and carnal minds by doctrines that do not include the putting to death of the old man, are enemys of His Cross.

 

[Osgiliath]

the "cross" first is the Sacrifice of the Lord - Jesus Christ for the Sake of overall salvation, while it second is the right faith in Him and His God the Father - the "cross" is the most powerful thing in the universe

Blessings

Faith that God GIVES US. NO ONE would believe if God didn't DRAW US TO HIM:

John 6:44 "No one is able to come to Me unless the Father Who sent Me draws him to Me..."



If the Father didn't draw one to Christ, NO ONE would believe; NO ONE would seek God:

Romans 3:11 "There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God."



NO ONE seeks God until the Father "draws him" - and no one "chooses" this on their own:

John 15:16 "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you..."



The "faith" you have for Christ was "given" to you by God, you did not "choose" yourself to have faith in God and be saved:

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."



Most Christians think that it is THEIR BELIEF that saves, not Christ. They believe that before THEIR decision (and in spite of Christ's work), they were condemned. And after THEIR decision, they had delivered THEMSELVES from sin. Being a physicist, I'll use a simple formula that illustrates the belief most Christians have:

• Christ + nothing = nothing.
• Christ + THEIR belief = everything.

If one understands the logic, there is no way to dismiss the following:

• If you say; "a sinner's condemnation is the sinner's own fault," you must then believe your own salvation is to your credit.
  
  
• If you say; "my salvation is nothing of myself," you must then believe a sinner's disbelief is not the sinner's fault.

The word "possible" before the word "Savior" was added by man's religion - God never added that. They say that Christ only provided "potential salvation," but not "actual salvation." It is THEIR BELIEF that does the actual saving, not Christ.



The fact is, we are NOT saved BECAUSE we believe. That would mean that WE are OUR OWN saviors. Personal belief is a reaction to salvation, not a cause of it. Otherwise, salvation is of personal belief, rather than of Christ. Again, as Paul tells us:

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."



Despite Paul's words, people still think it is THEIR OWN belief that saves them, but they err:

Galatians 2:16 "We are justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law."


We are saved by Christ's faith, not our works. Having to BELIEVE IN Christ on OUR OWN for salvation is WORKS, by the way. But it is the Faith of Christ, which He GIVES US as a gift (see Ephesians 2:8-9 above) that saves us.


People "boast" about being saved, and thumb their noses at people who are not. They believe it is because they are somehow "inherently" MORE RIGHTEOUS, or SMARTER than the guy who doesn't believe. But this is nothing but self-righteousness, because it is NOT their own faith that they somehow mustered from within their own righteous, intelligent selves, it is Christ's faith, that He gives TO US as A GIFT to those who are "DRAWN" to Christ by the Father (see above). Those who think otherwise should meditate on Paul's words:

1 Corinthians 4:7 "For what makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?"

 

[JCitoL]

Faith that God GIVES US. NO ONE would believe if God didn't DRAW US TO HIM:

John 6:44 "No one is able to come to Me unless the Father Who sent Me draws him to Me...".....

this standpoint is right, but there is also another part and it is the following, supposing the christian see/know that there are millions of people in trouble/affliction who need solution/salvation, what would be better to it, to want solution for them before God and Jesus, or not, to pray for their salvation before God and Jesus, or not?!, especially when it has been said by the Lord and written:

Matthew 7:7-12 "Ask(viz. ask from the true Lord God to provide the good things to the humans which they need according to His Will), and it shall be given you(i.e. and He will provide them); seek(viz. invoke That One Who really is the true Lord God), and ye shall find(i.e. and He will come); knock(viz. solicit/insist for the true Lord God and His Good things which He is prepared to give to the people), and it shall be opened unto you(i.e. and He will come and provide them much sooner than otherwise): For every one that asketh(viz. because everyone that asks the Good things from the true Lord God) receiveth; and he that seeketh(viz. and every who invoke That One Who really is the true Lord God) findeth; and to him that knocketh(viz. and to that who solicits/insists for the true Lord God and His Good things) it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.",

Matthew 11:12 "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.",

1 Timothy 2:1-10 "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks(i.e. of blessings), be made for all men(i.e. for all humans); For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty(i.e. in all goodness and earnestness). For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men(i.e. all humans/souls) to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth(i.e. and to become good/righteous). For there is one God, and one mediator(also: and one Lord) between God and men, the man(i.e. the ensouled being) Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not; ) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. I will therefore that men(i.e. that the male believers) pray every where, lifting up holy hands(i.e. entirely expressing/manifesting love/goodness), without wrath(i.e. without hostility/aggression) and doubting(i.e. and dramatization/stir/intrigues/strife). In like manner also, that women(i.e. that female believers) adorn themselves in modest apparel(i.e. in humility), with shamefacedness(i.e. with meekness) and sobriety(i.e. and sedation/sanity); not with broided hair(i.e. not with highminding), or gold(i.e. or vainglory), or pearls(i.e. or wisdom), or costly array(i.e. or elevation); But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.",

1 Timothy 4:1-11"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith(i.e. some may deviate from the right faith toward wrong), giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines(i.e. creeds) of devils; Speaking(i.e. preaching/testifying) lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron(i.e. with strong satanic spirituality); Forbidding to marry(i.e. forbidding the sex life), and commanding to abstain from meats(i.e. from natural consumptions), which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving(i.e. which the true God has made/given to be used for good purposes) of them which believe and know the truth(i.e. of those who believe right(-ly) as well as of those who do not do spiritual/religious iniquity). For every creature(i.e. for each creation) of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving(i.e. if it is used for good purposes): For it is sanctified by the word of God(i.e. of God's work) and prayer(i.e. and by the prayers of true Saints). If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith(i.e. of right faith) and of good doctrine(i.e. and of the good creed), whereunto thou hast attained. But refuse profane and old wives' fables(i.e. but avoid the traditions of defiling and misleading creeds), and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. For bodily(i.e. for overweening/self-interested) exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe(i.e. that do not commit spiritual/religious iniquity). These things command and teach."

what so would cost if the christian at any rate prefer all humans to be saved unto everlasting life after all?!, especially when it has been said and written:

1 John 2:6 "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.",

Luke 18:27 "And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.",

Luke 1:37 "For with God nothing shall be impossible.",

Mark 10:27 "for with God all things are possible."

but of course we do not talk about coercion or bondage, but just about a natural show of love towards the other humans by enough sanity, it would even be enough if the believer at least walk in this direction little by little

1 John 4:7-21 "Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son |to be| the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit(viz. of His Love, which is perfect love for all humans). And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son |to be| the Saviour of the world. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment(i.e. when we are always preferring/persisting for the quite direct and complete salvation in God and Jesus to all humans even in the most critical moments): because as he is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment(i.e. non-salvation and perdition). He that feareth is not made perfect in love(i.e. perfect in the deeds of salvation). We love him, because he first loved us. If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also."

all humans are created of God the Father at least via the process of pregnancy in the wombs of womеn, so they all are our brothers in Him

Blessings

 

[Mitspa]

Well the whole point of the POWER of the Cross of Christ, is that it is a place where the "natural mind" and its desires must die! Now are you asking a question from your "natural mind" or are you trying to gain Spiritual understanding? The Cross like Christ Himself, must be "believed" before it has effect for mankind. Now you have ask me this question over and over, I am not sure of the rules of this forum? but it seems you are at least breaking the intention of the rules? Now you have my answer to your question, The Cross works by FAITH, for ALL who believe

1Co 1:17

For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Co 1:18

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1Co 1:19

For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1Co 1:20

Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1Co 1:21

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

All must die at the Cross to their flesh! No man no matter how "elect" they think they are, can please God by the flesh and carnal mind.

 

[savedbygrace57]

the "cross" first is the Sacrifice of the Lord - Jesus Christ for the Sake of overall salvation, while it second is the right faith in Him and His God the Father - the "cross" is the most powerful thing in the universe

Blessings

Sounds like you believe man's faith is more virtious than Christ's Cross ! Does the Cross of Christ save those He died for in and of itself ?

 

[JCitoL]

Sounds like you believe man's faith is more virtious than Christ's Cross ! Does the Cross of Christ save those He died for in and of itself ?

firstly is the Sacrifice of Jesus without which now there would not be such hope for the humankind, while second is the right faith, because there may be many infidel people under sin who for some reasons do not believe, while the believers can believe right(-ly) in the true God and Jesus and thus bring salvation to all humans thereof, not only for themselves

Mark 9:23-29 "Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth..... And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer(i.e. but by intercession) and fasting(i.e. and concern)."

Blessings