Hey, I have a few minutes
At least the Rapture issue or debate is a non salvific issue so it's alright to toss these things around some.But I am not in any way dogmatic about it because the entire issue is confusing for me! So I'll post what amounts to my opinion, and by all means, feel free to correct me if I am wrong...That said...
As far as I can remember off the top of my head, there have been (at least) 7 Raptures in scripture. They are:
Enoch
Elijah
Jesus
Paul
John
The body of Christ.
I know I have scriptures for all of these in my notes. Ask and ye shall receive.
So with so many Raptures in scripture, I have to lean to yes, there will be a Rapture. I used to be a hard core pre trib believer, but the more we talked about it on the different sides of the issue...Brother! A Very good case can be made for we are Raptured at His 2nd coming. (I have prayed and prayed about wisdom and understanding about the Rapture, and the Lord is mostly silent to me about it. So...?
But as it is tossed around over time, new things crop up to me which make me wonder if...there is no rapture, then why were some Raptured out and saved in scripture?...If pre trib then when shall we suffer as we are promised to?...if at the 2nd coming then when does the Marriage supper happen. I do not think it will be on earth...
Whoops, gotta go. More later.
I do apologize for the length of this, but I could not find anyway to shorten this.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Enoch, Moses, Abraham and Elijah were not taken up to the third Heaven as some teach as when they were seen (not Enoch or Abraham) of Peter, James and John in Matthew 17:1-9 it was only a transfiguration like a vision that they saw Jesus transfigured as was Moses and Elijah. There is no one in the third heaven except God, Jesus and the angels, John 3:13. Everyone that has ever died is asleep in their grave and when Christ returns they will hear His voice as He calls all of them to come forth, they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation, John 5:28, 29. It is only our spirit/breath/soul that goes back to God who gave it, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7.
Genesis 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Does not say Enoch was taken up to heaven, but that he was only translated that he should not see death at that particular time being he was 365 years old. Should not see death means since Enoch walked with God he would not see the second death, Rev 20:6, but only that of the first death, Hebrews 9:27, as all his days were three hundred and sixty as he died, but no one knows where.
Genesis 49: 30 In the cave that is in the field of Machpelah, which is before Mamre, in the land of Canaan, which Abraham bought with the field of Ephron the Hittite for a possession of a burying place. 31 There they buried Abraham and Sarah his wife; there they buried Isaac and Rebekah his wife; and there I buried Leah.
Deuteronomy 34:5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. 6 and he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Beth-peor: but no man knoweth of his sepulcher unto this day.
2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (Heaven here means atmosphere, first heaven)
Elijah, having ascended into the air by a whirlwind was carried away out of sight beyond the horizon. Several years after he was taken away King Jehoram received a letter from him. How long after? There are some difficulties in figuring the exact chronology as it varies from 2 to 10 years or more. A note in Josephus (a Jewish historian of the first century A.D.) says 4 years, while the JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA figures it at 7 years.
Regardless of the exact number of years there came writing to Jehoram from Elijah the prophet, saying..." (2Chron 21:12). Now the wickedness of Jehoram, for which he was being rebuked in the letter, took place after Elijah was taken away, yet the letter speaks of these things as past events, and the punishment to come upon him as yet future. So the idea of some, that Elijah wrote the letter before he was removed by the whirlwind, is proved wrong.
Elijah was taken up by the whirlwind into the first heaven and transported to another location on Earth. God did not see fit in His purpose to reveal his whereabouts. Chariot of fire is used at times figuratively for host (angels) like in 2 Kings 2:11, 12: 6:17; Psalms 68:17; 104:1-4. Elijah, by his prayers and his counsel was the "chariot of Israel and the horseman thereof", meaning Elijah was the stronghold of Israel, the driving force of God. The Israelites never used chariots till the time of David.
When you compare 2 Kings 2:11-15 with 2 Kings 6:17 you see that God sent the host/angels down to Elijah who caught him up in a whirlwind and translated him to parts unknown. Several years after he was taken away King Jehoram received a letter from him.
What some people do not know is that there are three heavens. The first heaven is the Atmosphere, the air surrounding the earth. Birds fly "in the heaven" - certainly not to God's throne. We read in Genesis l:2 of "foul that may fly above the Earth in the open firmament of heaven." Jacob, when blessing Isaac, said: "God give you of the dew of heaven," and Moses was joyful that the "heavens shall drop down dew" (Gen.27:28; Deut.33:28). The dew comes from the first heaven - the atmosphere. The second heaven is the expanse of this awesome universe - where the stars, moon and planets are. The Psalmists often wrote about the "Heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon, and the stars, which you have ordained" (Ps.8:3; Gen.1:15-17). The third heaven is where the throne of God exists, where the heavenly temple is found and the heavenly Jerusalem.
2 Chronicles Chapter 21 - Jehoram, being the son of Jehoshaphat, was 32 when he began his reign in Israel. He married Ahab's daughter and was a wicked king who reigned for eight years. According to scripture Elijah was taken up in a whirlwind, 2 Kings 2:11-13. The heaven Elijah went up to was only the first heaven being the atmosphere as there are three heavens described in scripture as the throne of God is in the third heaven. A whirlwind can only happen within the atmosphere of the first heaven. During the reign of Jehoram he received a letter from Elijah, 2 Chronicles 21:12-15. How could he receive a letter from Elijah if he was with God in the third heaven? Elijah being caught up to heaven is the same as Phillip being caught up in the first heaven and carried thirty miles away, Acts 8:39, 40. The only difference is that when the fifty men searched for Elijah they could not find him as he was translated further than their search. Phillip was found within the thirty mile radius where he was translated to.
Elijah lived during the time of King Ahab in 9th century B.C. Some people thought that Jesus was Elijah come back, but Jesus made it clear that John the Baptist is the Elijah that was promised to come before the great and terrible day of the Lord, Malachi 4:5, Luke 1:16, 17.
Enoch died as per what Paul said In Hebrews 11:13 after speaking about all these men of faith that they all died in faith and never received the promise of heaven as one of the promises was a heavenly country, vs. 16. In Genesis 5:21-24 Enoch lived to be 365 years old and God took him. This is the same phrase in Psalms 37:36; 39:13; Matthew 2:18 to name a few that means they have passed away or would eventually die.
Psalms 89:48 David asked a question as he knew Enoch was dead in his grave. The words should not see death means that of the second death, John 8:51; 11:26; Rev 20:14, 15.
Based on Hebrews 9:27; 11:13; Romans 5:12-14 and all the scriptures I have given, especially John 3:13, no one has ever gone up to the third heaven, but only Christ. It's only man assuming without proof that say Elijah and Enoch were taken up to the third heaven where God sits on His throne. Scripture only says "they were not found".
