The Rapture Deception

[for_his_glory]

I don't mean to sidetrack, but I want to bring up a point, so it's not a sin to want to be avenged? Is this only for martyrs or any Christians under persecution?

No, it's not a sin to want to be avenged, but only becomes a sin when anyone takes action on vengeance against their enemies.

Romans 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

 

[for_his_glory]

The other thing we have to remember is on the Last Day, because Christ is seemingly the literal "Light of the world".....we may not even be in orbit anymore around the Sun ....we may be totally dependent on our Lord. And will time exist as we've known it or will "a day will be as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day" which precludes any timeline as we know it concerning the Wedding Feast.

My best answer to this is clearly found in scripture, plus we should always be dependent on the Lord for all the good times and for Him bringing us out of bad times. Praise Him in the good times and in the bad times as the joy of the Lord is my strength in whom I trust in all things.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[for_his_glory]

the mark of the beast w only know a small part of it.. some people make off the wall statements thinking it makes them smart or religious

Those who do not understand what the mark of the beast is will be those who ignorantly accept it not knowing they have sealed their fate as the seven vile judgements will fall on them, Rev 13, 16.

A mark can mean a visible impression, identifying seal, inscription or label and also the thoughts of the mind and actions of the hand. The mark of the beast is just that which is full of political self governed power that disguises itself as a religious system full of symbolism that is very deceptive to those who have no Spiritual discernment. From its throne will be displayed many signs and wonders that will promise peace and safety during the time of great tribulation as Gods wrath will be poured out during the seven trumpets sounding. Many will take this mark believing it to be a visible sign of God, but with a great falling away from God will be deceived and separated from God forever, Rev 13, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12

The mark of the beast is to those who have no understanding of the word of God as they reject the teachings of Christ as they are lovers of self, 2 Timothy 3:1-7, and will allow themselves to be deceived in their mind as they reach out with their hands and bow down to this Luciferians false religion that promises them provision, peace and safety during the time of Gods great wrath in the end of days as they have no faith in Jesus who supplies all our needs, Philippians 4:19. To understand this mark of the beast we first have to understand what and who this beast is and its controlling deceptive power.

Galatians 6:17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.

Revelation Chapter 13

John saw a beast (beast is often referred to as nations in scripture) rise up out of the sea having seven heads and ten horns and upon his horns ten crowns, (crowns denotes Kings) and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. The beast rises up out of the sea as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. This beast is a Luciferian system of political, economic, military, educational and false religious power that Satan has always worked through.

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire.
Seven remaining nations that still exist today:

Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon. This Empire ran from 2000BC - 1759BC

Medo – Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire. This Empire ran approximately from 536BC - 330BC

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

Roman Empire: (little horn, Daniel 8:9-14, 23-27)
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.
This Empire ran from 753BC -27BC

The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25; Rev 13. The deadly wound came in 1798 when General Berthier of France captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799. Seven of these nations are the ancestors of the modern nations of Europe.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (English), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

What was and was not and yet to come has always been the Roman Empire that has always persecuted Gods chosen from the foundation of the world whose names is found written in the Lambs book of life. The beast out of the sea is the revived Roman Empire as its deadly wound has been healed as we see in John’s vision as Satan gives this beast his power, seat and great authority. They, being those whose names are not found written in the Lambs book of life bow down to the authority of the beast and its false religious system as they are deceived having no truth or understanding found in them as they are lead about like a bull with a ring in its nose as they bow down to this pagan authority, Hosea 4:6, 7; 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

The beast was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies and power was given unto him to continue for three and a half years which equals 1260 days, Daniel 7:25; 12:7; Revelation 11:2, 3. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints and to overcome them and power was given him over all kindred’s, and tongues, and nations. Daniel 7:24, 25 and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, He will think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Another beast comes up out of the earth that looks like a lamb (false Christ) with two horns. The two horns represent the Old Roman Empire that received its deadly wound back in 1798 that caused them to scatter into the other ten nations (horns). The wound was healed in 1929.

Here is the patience and the faith of the saints as they wait upon the Lords return. They will have to wholeheartedly draw on the Lords strength without hindrance while enduring the 3 1/2 years of this beast in the end of days.

 

[jerry63935]

What do you call it then if Pastors teach things that come against the doctrines of Christ? I would think that would be labeled false teachings

pssst jesus never taught pre trib mid trib or tribulation rapture
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Matthew 12:38-40 King James Version (KJV)
38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.

39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
you simply can not go around proclaiming false teacher ..which would make them fake----NOT SAVED only a few of those you branded have i listened to. mainly hage and jeremiah. i may have seen one of the movie by lahaye .i really dont remember . the ones listed and i am sure all the others you branded teach Grace .

should i brand you a false teacher because i dont agree with you ? what i am saying is your claim of these people being false. is out of Line is not supported by scripture .because i am not pentecostal should i start saying all those who are. are nothing more than false teachers..fake not true ?
i am calling you put to say YOUR claim of them being false is wrong and you know it . BTW i have many and i mean many pentecostal friends .including a woman pentecostal preacher that i have sit in service with. on of the churches i was pastor at. i had her speak for mothers day 2 false Christs A false Christ, pretended Messiah. From pseudes and Christos; a spurious Messiah.

false prophets From pseudes and prophetes; a spurious prophet, i.e. Pretended foreteller or religious impostor.

this has nothing to do with your trib rapture ..you could be right or i could be right or both of us have it wrong.. once again your label your hanging on these men is WRONG .yes i am calling you on it . a rule of thumb for you to use Isaiah 8 :20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. ..

 

[jerry63935]

Like I said, make your case for pretrib and please show me the scriptures that say there is a pretrib Rapture of the Church. I've been waiting for 47 years and will wait until you or anyone will do this for me as I can not find any.

evidently you have not paid attention. i never said i was pre trib i lean towards mid .but i am mostly just be ready .that way i dont miss it ..like a older bro at church said he was pan millennium live for jesus and every thing will pan out

 

[GodsGrace]

I was also told to never drive myself anywhere because of the risk of getting into a wreck with a Saudi citizen. It would be my fault no matter what. And told never to drink or have alcohol anywhere around. Or even a Bible.

Yes.- I know about the drinking and the bible part.
Some do sneak a drink but if they get caught it's a big problem...and even more so it one is not of that nationality; whatever country it may be, Saudi Arabia for instance.

 

[GodsGrace]

evidently you have not paid attention. i never said i was pre trib i lean towards mid .but i am mostly just be ready .that way i dont miss it ..like a older bro at church said he was pan millennium live for jesus and every thing will pan out

Don't worry you won't miss the rapture because there won't be any.
You need to rethink this whole matter.

Could you explain
Luke 17:37
37And answering they said to Him, “Where, Lord?” And He said to them, “Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered.”

 

[GodsGrace]

Wait. I thought the resurrection was for the dead and the rapture was for the living. Either way....yeah.....I believe the "rapture" is the getting caught up and receiving our glorified bodies as we meet Christ in the air.

Agreed on the terminology....
I just believe that both will happen at the same time.
Doesn't the bible teach that Jesus is coming back just one time?
The rapture idea would make it necessary for Jesus to come back two times.

 

[jasonc]

Yes.- I know about the drinking and the bible part.
Some do sneak a drink but if they get caught it's a big problem...and even more so it one is not of that nationality; whatever country it may be, Saudi Arabia for instance.

Well I do like Italian food a lot

 

[jerry63935]

Don't worry you won't miss the rapture because there won't be any.
You need to rethink this whole matter.

Could you explain
Luke 17:37
37And answering they said to Him, “Where, Lord?” And He said to them, “Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered.”

maybe you best read your bible better..
John 14 King James Version (KJV)
14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

that sure aint a death
1 Thessalonians 4:14-16 King James Version (KJV)
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Christ is coming again to take his Church away

 

[jerry63935]

Agreed on the terminology....
I just believe that both will happen at the same time.
Doesn't the bible teach that Jesus is coming back just one time?
The rapture idea would make it necessary for Jesus to come back two times.

he takes the church out .then the he comes back in judgement . jude
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

to be honest with you it really doesnt matter how we believe. it going to happen exactly how he wants it to take place. the teachings of the rapture when we are caught up in the air were took out, then he will return as i showed in jude. so in reality in this teaching his return is in judgement its the. timing that has many beliefs. this one thing i will say for surety we will not be here when his judgement is poured out.

 

[jasonc]

he takes the church out .then the he comes back in judgement . jude
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

to be honest with you it really doesnt matter how we believe. it going to happen exactly how he wants it to take place. the teachings of the rapture when we are caught up in the air were took out, then he will return as i showed in jude. so in reality in this teaching his return is in judgement its the. timing that has many beliefs. this one thing i will say for surety we will not be here when his judgement is poured out.

Noah wasn't vacated from,the earth during the judgement but in a place of provision and safety .

 

[jerry63935]

Noah wasn't vacated from,the earth during the judgement but in a place of provision and safety .

as i said there are many different views. when it boils down to it .it will all happen in his timing his way

 

[GodsGrace]

maybe you best read your bible better..
John 14 King James Version (KJV)
14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

that sure aint a death
1 Thessalonians 4:14-16 King James Version (KJV)
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Christ is coming again to take his Church away

He's coming again,,,but not to take His Church away.
Jesus will be coming at the end of time to take ALL OF US away.
Those in the tombs will be resurrected with glorified bodies...
those that are living will be changed in the twinkling of an eye.

1 Corinthians 15:50-52
50Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
51Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

And while I'm busy trying to read my bible better,
perhaps you could answer my question, which you failed to do.
It's in post 147...Here it is again for your convenience:


*******************************************************************

Could you explain
Luke 17:37
37And answering they said to Him, “Where, Lord?” And He said to them, “Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered.”


Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

he takes the church out .then the he comes back in judgement . jude
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

to be honest with you it really doesnt matter how we believe. it going to happen exactly how he wants it to take place. the teachings of the rapture when we are caught up in the air were took out, then he will return as i showed in jude. so in reality in this teaching his return is in judgement its the. timing that has many beliefs. this one thing i will say for surety we will not be here when his judgement is poured out.

When is the judgement?
Where will we be?
Where will the others be?

I believe the idea of a rapture gives a false sense of security.
If the end comes and this rapture does not happen, just think how many will lose their faith.

Please see the verse in Luke and let me know what you think it means.
It holds the key to this new, modern idea of a rapture...which has never existed before in the history of Christianity.

 

[for_his_glory]

pssst jesus never taught pre trib mid trib or tribulation rapture 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Matthew 12:38-40 King James Version (KJV) 38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. you simply can not go around proclaiming false teacher ..which would make them fake----NOT SAVED only a few of those you branded have i listened to. mainly hage and jeremiah. i may have seen one of the movie by lahaye .i really dont remember . the ones listed and i am sure all the others you branded teach Grace . should i brand you a false teacher because i dont agree with you ? what i am saying is your claim of these people being false. is out of Line is not supported by scripture .because i am not pentecostal should i start saying all those who are. are nothing more than false teachers..fake not true ? i am calling you put to say YOUR claim of them being false is wrong and you know it . BTW i have many and i mean many pentecostal friends .including a woman pentecostal preacher that i have sit in service with. on of the churches i was pastor at. i had her speak for mothers day 2 false Christs A false Christ, pretended Messiah. From pseudes and Christos; a spurious Messiah. false prophets From pseudes and prophetes; a spurious prophet, i.e. Pretended foreteller or religious impostor. this has nothing to do with your trib rapture ..you could be right or i could be right or both of us have it wrong.. once again your label your hanging on these men is WRONG .yes i am calling you on it . a rule of thumb for you to use Isaiah 8 :20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. ..

Jesus most certainly taught when the catching up of the saints will be and of His coming for them if you read what the Prophets wrote in the OT and what Jesus said in the NT beginning starting with Matthew 24, especially vs. 29-31. Included are the teachings of Jesus in 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4 :13-18, Rev chapters 12-19 just to name a few.

I never said these pretrib Pastors were not saved nor do not teach salvation by God's grace through Christ Jesusas only, but only God can judge the intents of the heart. No one should become a teacher of the word of God unless they have been called of God and have the anointing of the Holy Spirit upon them to teach others as teachers will stand in strict judgement before God for what they have taught others, James 3:1.

I will use John Hagee for an example. I went to check out his church in San Antonio, Texas when I lived there as my sister attended his church. I always like to meet and talk to the Pastor of any church that I have been to in order to get to know them, but the elders of the church said he talks to no one other than his staff. This was before he became so famous and built his big fancy church building and now has body guards as he lives in fear that someone will kill him. When Pastors become unapproachable then they become their own god and seek praise and worship of others who will bow down to their feet. At least that's the way I see it.

It truly doesn't matter who agrees or disagrees with me, but that they take the time to read and study the scriptures apart from how others teach them so they will not be deceived, 1 John 2:27. If we are not Spiritually discerning that which is taught us then go out and teach others we have no excuse before the Father in His judgement. There are only two spirits that operate as one is the spirit of truth and the other the spirit of error, 1 John 4:1-6.

We are to expose false teachings as I already addressed that in post #112.
I'm not Pentecostal or any other form of religion, but only a blood bought child of God through the Spiritual rebirth and indwelled with the Holy Spirit. There are over 1400 different religions in the world and none of them can agree with each other, so no, I am not of man's religion.

Again, as I have asked a couple of times in here, please show me even one scripture that teaches a pretrib Rapture of the Church before that of the seven trumpets ushering God's great wrath into the world. I have given many scriptures, and could give more that says we will go through all trials and tribulations until Christ returns on the last day as He will prepare a place for us in the wilderness if we heed His warning to flee at this time, especially when the son of perdition being the abomination Daniel spoke of in Daniel 7, 8, 9 takes his literal seat in Jerusalem for 3 1/2 years deceiving people with lying signs and wonders causing many to take the mark of this beast.

It's not these men that are in question, but that which they have taught since 1830 that came about from an evil dream some woman had and told others about as they twisted that dream and came up with their pretrib theories.

Rule of thumb, if it's not found written in the scriptures then it probably isn't true.

 

[for_his_glory]

evidently you have not paid attention. i never said i was pre trib i lean towards mid .but i am mostly just be ready .that way i dont miss it ..like a older bro at church said he was pan millennium live for jesus and every thing will pan out

I do apologize, as I thought you were. I do agree that it is more important to be prepared in order to be caught up to Christ when He returns.

 

[for_his_glory]

I believe the idea of a rapture gives a false sense of security.
If the end comes and this rapture does not happen, just think how many will lose their faith.

This is the exactly the reason why I teach against a pretrib Rapture as I think many will end up rejecting Christ when they see God's wrath being poured out into the world during the seven trumpets sounding, because they are taught we are out of here before that happens. Many who claim they are Christ own, but yet have no knowledge of the end times will believe the lying signs and wonders of the son of perdition when he takes his seat in Jerusalem causing a great falling away from the true God and His Son Christ Jesus as they bow down and worship this beast taking its mark as many will believe he is God comedown from heaven.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

 

[GodsGrace]

This is the exactly the reason why I teach against a pretrib Rapture as I think many will end up rejecting Christ when they see God's wrath being poured out into the world during the seven trumpets sounding, because they are taught we are out of here before that happens. Many who claim they are Christ own, but yet have no knowledge of the end times will believe the lying signs and wonders of the son of perdition when he takes his seat in Jerusalem causing a great falling away from the true God and His Son Christ Jesus as they bow down and worship this beast taking its mark as many will believe he is God comedown from heaven.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Must leave sis,,,,
but what do you think the mark of the beast is?
I have no idea....
Over here they're trying to remove cash from circulation and I foresee
a day when we'll have a cashless society.
Is this a mark?

tomorrow....

 

[jerry63935]

I never said these pretrib Pastors were not saved nor do not teach salvation by God's grace through Christ Jesus as only

when you call someone a false teacher that is exactly what your saying. that is the point your not getting . i very seldom listen to hagee .i listened to him on you tube the other day. the man is knowledgeable . he is not among my favorite. once again he is not a false teacher.because his doctrine is not the same as yours. .drop your false teacher and you will be ok. joel olsteen is so far out in spaceland. he waters everything down. the preacher in waco texas David ??? then jim jones false teachers J.W falls there to along with latter day saints . i don't agree with apostolic would you consider them false teachers?