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The Rapture Deception

for_his_glory said:
Of course this is happening right now in other countries, but I'm talking about the Christians they do not heed Christ warning to flee when they see the son of perdition take his literal seat in Jerusalem. These are the ones who believed in a pretrib rapture, but are now found and captured as they are forced to denounce their faith in Christ in order to take the mark of the beast or be beheaded for their faith in Christ.

It's like the souls under the altar in Rev 6:9-11 that have died a martyr's death waiting to be avenged, but told to wait until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
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I don't mean to sidetrack, but I want to bring up a point, so it's not a sin to want to be avenged? Is this only for martyrs or any Christians under persecution?
 
for_his_glory said:
Right before Christ returns the great harlot and mystery Babylon will be destroyed, Rev 17, 18. The marriage supper of the Lamb follows after this with Christ returning in the air with His army of angels who are the host of heaven, Rev 19:11-14. He sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather all who are dead and still alive at His coming that are His own as we are then gathered up in the clouds to meet Him in the air, Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Corinthians 15:51-57; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

Once we are safely with Christ in the air, then just by Him speaking the words He takes the beast and false prophet (son of perdition) alive and cast them into the lake of fire. All those leaders from every nation on every continent that followed after the beast will be slain by the words Jesus speaks as what we read in Rev 19 is all done by Christ being in the air where we are yet with Him before He plants His feet on the Mt of Olives.

This all takes place on the last day being our seventh day of rest that has no ending for we know from that point on we will be with the Lord for ever. We can not see this as a 24 hour day as this is the time of our seventh day rest like that of God's rest in Genesis 2:3 as He sanctified that day and set it apart from all the other days, but had no evening.
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The other thing we have to remember is on the Last Day, because Christ is seemingly the literal "Light of the world".....we may not even be in orbit anymore around the Sun ....we may be totally dependent on our Lord. And will time exist as we've known it or will "a day will be as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day" which precludes any timeline as we know it concerning the Wedding Feast.
 
daninthelionsden said:
The other thing we have to remember is on the Last Day, because Christ is seemingly the literal "Light of the world".....we may not even be in orbit anymore around the Sun ....we may be totally dependent on our Lord. And will time exist as we've known it or will "a day will be as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day" which precludes any timeline as we know it concerning the Wedding Feast.
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as the sun and the moon are before me forever, so shall shabat be.

I think this all means the idea of timing for worship. imho. there are very Hebrew motifs in this book and you cant dismiss that.
 
Consecrated Life said:
I see nothing in any of the scriptures you mention that could be construed to mean people can get a " second chance " ?
It sounds to me that this is really what is at the heart of what does not
" set well " with you ?
That is unfortunate because that is an anti-biblical concept and there is no scripture that can be pointed to in the bible which indicates a " second chance " with Jesus is possible .
It is ironic that you say you base belief exclusively on what is within the scriptures ,
and yet there is no instance in the whole bible of someone using a " second chance "
with Jesus after rejecting Him .
None .
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I have even heard scare tactics being used to keep pre-tribbers in line by saying...."if you don't believe in Pre-Trib, then you won't be raptured and you'll be left behind.
 
daninthelionsden said:
I have even heard scare tactics being used to keep pre-tribbers in line by saying...."if you don't believe in Pre-Trib, then you won't be raptured and you'll be left behind.
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I have been told that in person. and also on this forum and I responded with. where is that in the bible and point me to it? I aslo said where did jesus say you must believe in that type of return? in fact it is stated Jesus returns and is looking for his faithful and If I am reaching the lost and winning souls. I highly doubt I would be left behind.
 
jasonc said:
I have been told that in person. and also on this forum and I responded with. where is that in the bible and point me to it? I aslo said where did jesus say you must believe in that type of return? in fact it is stated Jesus returns and is looking for his faithful and If I am reaching the lost and winning souls. I highly doubt I would be left behind.
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who told you that? that is not right
 
jerry63935 said:
who told you that? that is not right
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i will not state his name here and he isn't a nationally known pastor, but an elder in my church at the time. it was also commonly told by a few. why does this sound so schocking. its quite common. I have heard the pastor of the church imply it . he wasn't the only one.
 
I have found that most churches that do teach futurism that if you are not of the type they look at you funny. try being at the time, a partial preterist/amil.

now,lol, its well God will deal with men and there is a ressurection somewhere,lol. closest to post trib without some 7 year tribulation. the antichrist is possible since the early church didn't see the events of ad 70 as fulfillment of that.
 
jerry63935 said:
the mark of the beast w only know a small part of it.. some people make off the wall statements thinking it makes them smart or religious
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He and I worked together 15 years and he was an excellent pilot, plant operator and former cop. We had such conversations a few times. It wasn't a knee jerk response, but rather what he earnestly believed.
 
daninthelionsden said:
He and I worked together 15 years and he was an excellent pilot, plant operator and former cop. We had such conversations a few times. It wasn't a knee jerk response, but rather what he earnestly believed.
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years ago before 1948, futuristm had the view that if isreal was ever to return the church would be vacated from the earth. we had a few members old enough here at one time to have heard that.
 
jerry63935 said:
your taking out of context pre trib prophecy does not fall under false teaching.. no more than yours does. false --
1: not genuinefalse documentsfalse teeth
2a: intentionally untruefalse testimony
b: adjusted or made so as to deceivefalse scalesa trunk with a false bottom
c: intended or tending to mislead a false promise
3: not truefalse concepts
you are judging many of the baptist especially the independent baptist despises \\joyce myers .i mean they gnash on her hard mainly due to her being a woman . there are some things i have heard her say i question. that dos not make her a false teacher. this is exactly what the problem in some of churches are the baptist think pentecostals are nuts and the pentecostals think the baptist are dead.. my whole point is you are being judgmental . might i add the pre tribbers as you say have scriptures to back up what they say.anyone claiming salvation by works/water baptism/ speaking in tongues . any thing out side the doctrine of saved ny grace through faith is false teaching
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Like I said, make your case for pretrib and please show me the scriptures that say there is a pretrib Rapture of the Church. I've been waiting for 47 years and will wait until you or anyone will do this for me as I can not find any.

Meanwhile here is just a few scriptures of a rather large list I have that shows the church, being the Bride of Christ, throughout Revelations up to the last day when Christ returns.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. 26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
(This is speaking about the beast out of the sea who gives power to the beast out of the earth that will reign for 3 1/2 years after the seventh trumpet is sounded, Rev 13.)

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Rev 6:9 and when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 and they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 and white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
(Note where John says fellow servants and brethren that should be killed as they were and we are possibly in the midst of the seven seals right now heading towards the seven trumpets.)

Rev 18:4 and I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
(Come out from the false teachings of mans interpretations and doctrines.)

Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Rev 18:24 and in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
(We have now endured and overcame the rule of the great harlot and mystery Babylon as now comes the marriage supper of the Lamb as we are gathered and caught up tp Christ when He returns, Rev 19)

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 and to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
(We have made ourselves ready by enduring the great tribulations, even to death; we had to go through before the end of days.)

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
 
Edward said:
As far as I can tell, almost everyone is messed up about the whole pre-mid-post trib thing because they believe that it is a 7 year tribulation, so the beginning of the 7 years is pre-trib and mid-trib is before it get real bad and post trib is at the Lord's 2nd coming. Scripture does not support that. It is a 3 1/2 year tribulation, so technically pre-trib is what many call mid-trib...so no wonder it's confusing and hardly anyone agrees.
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There is no mention in scripture of a seven year tribulation period as in Revelations God speaks to us in scripture of the seven trumpets sounding in the end of days throughout the world, but yet no one knows how long the first six trumpets will last. The sounding of the seventh trumpet will usher in the 3 ½ years of tribulation when the reign of the son of perdition that Satan works through begins. The first six trumpets of God’s great wrath will bring much devastation to those who are still alive at this time as chaos will run rampant. There is no mention of a seven year tribulation period as we will always have tribulations until Christ returns.

Scripture only teaches of 3 ½ years starting with the seventh trumpet as time, times and half time which equals 1260 days = 3 ½ years or 3 ½ Times – Hebrew calendar only had 30 days for each month and this is where you get 1260 days or 3 ½ years. The seventh trumpet is more devastating then the ones before it as this is the time when the son of perdition takes his literal seat in Jerusalem causing all through deceiving signs and wonders to bow down to him and take his mark, 1 Thessalonians 2:3-9; Rev 13.

[Scripture reference]

Revelation 12:14; Daniel 7:25; Daniel 12:7

1260 days – Revelation 11:3; Revelation 12:6

42 months – Revelation 11:2; Revelation 13:5
 
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