Shilohsfoal
Member
The man of sin sits in Jerusalem with two witnesses that work for him.
With all power and lying wonders.
No wonder Babylon commits so many sins during their stay.When you get Jesus witnesses helping .
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The Simple Key to Interpreting Revelation
- Thread starter RBDERRICK
- Start date
With all power and lying wonders.
No wonder Babylon commits so many sins during their stay.When you get Jesus witnesses helping .
Dorothy Mae
Member
It’s the local JW leader.
Scripture please that states a nuclear explosion as John would not have even known what that is. We can not read into scripture that which is not written. 2 Peter 3:1-13; Rev 19, 21 teaches us that God's word is a consuming fire and it is He that will speak destroy this present heaven and earth making all things new again before that of the new heaven and earth when the new Jerusalem is ushered down from heaven. Nuclear wars would have to be done on every continent, every nation, every city in order to destroy the whole world.
Revelation is not that hard to understand if we would just read it for what has already been written instead of man adding to it and taking away from it.
Shilohsfoal
Member
Armageddon is not every nation on earth.
Armageddon is in Israel .Why is it you can not understand that?The entire world is not destroyed.
The US is only going to destroy the countries that have attacked the IS and israel.
The US is not going to attack and destroy the entire world.
Daniel 11
40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
This isn't describing a US war against Russia or China.This is describing a war against the middle east and Egypt.Not the entire world as you have claimed.
RBDERRICK
Supporter
Those left alive after the plagues and great day of battle, are them left of the nations gathered by the King to judge as sheep or goats.
The sands of the sea gathered by Satan one last time on earth, are not until His kingdom on earth expires.
Just because there is mystery in Revelation, it doesn't give us the right to make it have no chronological sense to it's events at all.
Gog, Magog, and sand of sea number of people is in the middle of Rev 20 after the Millinial reign and before the GWT judgment.
The only other sand of the sea in Revelation is the ones John stands upon to see the first beast rise out of the sea.
True. At Armageddon and the land around in Judea.
Once again, this is attempting to symbolize prophetic words of Revelation away from plain words of chronology.
Once that begins, we can come up with anything symbolic thing we want. There are some Christians who do so, and say all of Jesus Christ's Revelation is just a book of symbols only.
That includes His coming again with great power in the air, and reigning on earth for a thousand years.
Unless God says plainly it is a symbolic wonder, then I don't try to make it one.
True. There will be many saved during His reign on earth, which will begin only with the saved sheep by neighborly works, that He chooses to rule over.
But Rev 20 speaks specifically of the camp of saints. Which appears to be close to the beloved city. They went up from the breadth of the earth to specifically encompass those two places on earth.
They can't be the gernational Jews of national Israel, since one of the tribes listed was not one on Aaron's breastplate.
That would make Scripture change and contradict itself.
It would also contradict Scripture in saying God reserves His seal for 'special' people of flesh and blood.
True.
True. There will still be plenty of people on earth outwardly obeying the King, but not inwardly loving Him from the heart.
True.
True. Not of Armageddon at His return, which is before His Millennium begins by complete victory of war.
It's said a and the thousand years, and it's said 6 times in 7 verses. It's much more sensible to believe it, than to make it into another amount of time entirely.
It's also the thousand years of His reign and Satan shut up, that expires.
Expires is used only for a definitive end of a definite amount of time, that has a definite beginning.
It is never used for something symbolic or allegorical, that has no clear beginning nor ending.
No is it ever used figuratively. Expire is distinct, not relative.
Just because time in Scripture is used figuratively, does not mean all time in Scripture can be used figuratively.
It's the same error of making definitive events and times and places and people of prophecy, into symbols and allegory only.
Many in history have made the whole Bible to be just another book of symbol, allegory, and fable. Some do so for all prophecies of old, and some do so for the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
You're doing so for the parts you want to make so, and so do away with proper sense of literal time, places, events, and people in God's words.
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
This specifically pertains to Jesus first and second coming.
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.
The words of prophecy are sure, because they are literally true.
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
When we change the words and their meanings to symbol and allegory only, where they are plainly written as real events and times, then we start teaching our own prophecies as being God's written ones.
I've dealt with the Symbol Man's Bible before, and there is nothing sure nor sound about it. I don't go down that road, where God's words no longer have any plain meaning, that we can all hold to surely and intelligently.
The literal title for the book of Revelation in the Greek is "Apocalypse of John". The word apocalypse means revelation, that which is uncovered. Here is the beginning and ending of the abomination that has always caused desolation as the last time will be in the end of days when the son of perdition literally takes his seat in Jerusalem causing all to take the mark of this beast.
The first battle mention in scripture is found in Genesis 14:1-24. Shinar, Ellasar and Elam became known later in scripture as being Babylon, which is now modern day Iraq. These kings have always fought and taken captive Gods covenant people starting with Lot who was Abraham's nephew in whom Abraham took his army and fought against these four eastern kings and defeated them. This first battle was about controlling power, greed and monopoly on international trade (economics) as they tried to defeat everyone who opposed them as they took captive not only possessions from others, but also held them captive those who would not bow down to their false gods. As history repeats itself this same ruling Empire that has exisited since the time of Abraham and going clear back to Nimrod and the Tower of Babel will also take place in the end of days when the beast rises out of the sea and gives power to the beast out of the earth who will exercise all the power of the first beast before him. The beast out of the earth will have ruling power given to him by the beast out of the sea in a New World Order controlling political, economic, educational, environmental and false religious systems, Rev Chapter 13.
We know how history repeats itself as Jerusalem has been destroyed twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times as these eastern kings will always try to take posession of what God gave to Abraham through the covenant God made with him in Genesis 12:1-3 and all his generation after him. This will continue until the last day when Christ returns, John 6:40, as these four kings are that of the controlling power within the four nations Daniel speaks of in Daniel Chapter 7 with the last one that received a deadly wound, but the wound has been healed, Revelation 13:3. The four nations are: Babylonian Empire: Iraq (the lion), Medo, Persian Empire: Iran (the ribs of the bear), Grecian Empire: (Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) four wings of the leopard, Roman Empire: (Iron represents the stronghold this nation had and still has). Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.
The beast rises up out of the sea as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. The beast was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies and power was given unto him to continue for three and a half years which equals 1260 days, Daniel 7:25; 12:7; Revelation 11:2, 3. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints and to overcome them and power was given him over all kindred’s, and tongues, and nations as this beast is the same as the four eastern kings found in Genesis 14:1-24 and Daniel Chapter 7.
Notice the fourth king in Genesis 14:1 was king over many nations as Satan worked through him as well as the other three kings, Genesis 14:14:1. This is the same with the beast out of the earth, that is the son of perdition/last antichrist) that Satan works through who will try to devour all those of faith in God and His Son Christ Jesus, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12; Rev 13:11-18. Daniel 7:24, 25 and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, He will think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time (3 1/2 years). This fourth king (beast out of the earth) whose deadly wound came in 1798 and the wound was healed in 1929 is even now plotting for economic, political, military and religious control as he is the son of perdition who is the last false prophet (antichrist) who by lying signs and wonders will cause a great falling away from God, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 in as much as he can deceive the very elect if possible, Matthew 24:24.
Shilohsfoal
Member
False,it is not the son of perdition that place the abomination that causes desolation.
It is his armed forces that place the abomination that causes Jerusalem's desolation.
It is the armed forces that have access to the abomination that causes desolation and they are trained to use it
I do wish you would use scripture as I have told you before that no one is just going to take your word as face value.
Many things make perfect sense to a carnal mind, but it is the Spiritual knowledge that we desire.
Revelations is full of symbolism that is literal where it needs to be and Spiritual where it needs to define that of the literal. These revelations are given as a warning to those who have yet to accept Jesus as Messiah. Gods chastisements are to draw those back to him in repentance before that door of salvation is closed forever when Jesus returns and Gods true Church is gathered up to be with the Father forever.
The focus in Revelations would seem to center around Israel only and the nations that come against her for this is how John would recognize it to be since all other nations were not yet developed in his time. Revelations is about all of us, Jew and Gentile, past, present and future that by faith keep Gods commandments. We are Gods witnesses that testify of His mercy and grace as we take His word out into the world to those who have ears to hear.
Israel lost her right to be called Gods chosen people, (God did save a faithful remnant), as they fell into idolatry worshiping other gods as they allowed themselves to fall from Gods grace as they followed the lust of their own hearts as they practiced Judaism, 1 Kings 9:1-9. God’s judgment against them led them to be captured, 605 – 537 B.C., by Nebuchadnezzar and taken into Babylon for seventy years while Nebuchadnezzar’s army killed many Jews in Judah and Jerusalem destroying the whole city of Jerusalem including the first Temple that was built through King Solomon’s reign in Jerusalem.
The second Temple was built under Ezra’s leadership and Israel continued practicing Judaism and their Temple was desecrated as part of an effort to impose Greek-oriented culture and customs on the entire population. Roman rule refurbished the temple as Herod, Romans vassal king, rules the land of Israel. In 70 A.D. the Temple is once again destroyed. The Temple Mount was taken over in 691 A.D. as the Arab nation built the Dome of the Rock and there has not been any
The 490 years were up and many of the Jews not only did not repent but they killed the very Messiah they had been waiting for as well as in 24 A.D. they made an opened display of rejecting the Gospel message as they stoned Stephen being the final messenger that was sent to give them their last chance to repent. The Jews were now rejected as God’s chosen people and were no different from the Gentiles as from that time forth each individual, Jew and Gentile has to make their own decision to accept or reject Jesus as Lord and Savior, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10. other Temple built since that time on the original Temple Mount.
God gave Israel 490 years to repent. They were set free from Babylon when the Medes and Persian conquered Babylon (Chaldean) around 538 B.C. They were allowed back in the land and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem, however, they still did not repent for their sin of idol worshiping and they continued to receive punishment from God as the kingdom was taken away and eventually taken over by the Roman Empire. Malachi Chapter 1-4.
The focus in Revelations would seem to center around Israel only and the nations that come against her for this is how John would recognize it to be since all other nations were not yet developed in his time. Revelations is about all of us, Jew and Gentile, past, present and future that by faith keep Gods commandments. We are Gods witnesses that testify of His mercy and grace as we take His word out into the world to those who have ears to hear.
Israel lost her right to be called Gods chosen people, (God did save a faithful remnant), as they fell into idolatry worshiping other gods as they allowed themselves to fall from Gods grace as they followed the lust of their own hearts as they practiced Judaism, 1 Kings 9:1-9. God’s judgment against them led them to be captured, 605 – 537 B.C., by Nebuchadnezzar and taken into Babylon for seventy years while Nebuchadnezzar’s army killed many Jews in Judah and Jerusalem destroying the whole city of Jerusalem including the first Temple that was built through King Solomon’s reign in Jerusalem.
The second Temple was built under Ezra’s leadership and Israel continued practicing Judaism and their Temple was desecrated as part of an effort to impose Greek-oriented culture and customs on the entire population. Roman rule refurbished the temple as Herod, Romans vassal king, rules the land of Israel. In 70 A.D. the Temple is once again destroyed. The Temple Mount was taken over in 691 A.D. as the Arab nation built the Dome of the Rock and there has not been any
The 490 years were up and many of the Jews not only did not repent but they killed the very Messiah they had been waiting for as well as in 24 A.D. they made an opened display of rejecting the Gospel message as they stoned Stephen being the final messenger that was sent to give them their last chance to repent. The Jews were now rejected as God’s chosen people and were no different from the Gentiles as from that time forth each individual, Jew and Gentile has to make their own decision to accept or reject Jesus as Lord and Savior, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10. other Temple built since that time on the original Temple Mount.
God gave Israel 490 years to repent. They were set free from Babylon when the Medes and Persian conquered Babylon (Chaldean) around 538 B.C. They were allowed back in the land and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem, however, they still did not repent for their sin of idol worshiping and they continued to receive punishment from God as the kingdom was taken away and eventually taken over by the Roman Empire. Malachi Chapter 1-4.
journeymanisnothing
Member
They flee to the valley that reaches "Azal." Azal is the mountain tops. He's saying when the Messiah comes, he'll defeat the enemy in battle (which Jesus did) and turn the land into a plain. The reason for this is because Jerusalem is surrounded by mountains with many valleys. Splitting Mt.Olivet in two would cause the valley to be filled, level with the earth around it,
It's like how John interpreted Isa.40:4
Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low Lk.3:5
Have you ever considered that Daniel is speaking about the future end of days when the war between Michael and Satan will take place and Satan is cast out into the earth as then there will be great tribulation brought against those who are God's own having their names written in the Lamb's book of life, Rev 12:7-12. This will be the greatest tribulation that ever was nor will ever be again. There has always been tribulations caused by the enemies of God who have persecuted, even to death, those who are God's own by faith. The last time will be when the son of perdition takes his seat in Jerusalem causing all to take the mark of this beast or die a martyrs death if they do not renounce Jesus, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12; Rev 13
Shilohsfoal
Member
I have quoted it many times.
But if you have ignored Daniel ,I'm positive you would ignore me quoting Daniel.But here is the verse Jesus was quoting Daniel concerning the tribulation.
Daniel 12:1-2
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame
Shilohsfoal
Member
Have you paid attention to the verse because it says that those whos names are written are delivered at that time.
When the king of the north goes forth to destroy the middle east and north Africa,the people who names are written are saved at that time.Those who have received rain are not consumed.
The people who names are not written and who have not received rain are consumed.Burned up
Already addressed this in post #71.
journeymanisnothing
Member
I believe the 1st resurrection is when a person is made alive by being born again.
I believe 1Thes.4 describes the 2nd resurrection, bodily from the grave.
He tells us the testimony if Jesus is the spirit of prophecy (Rev.19:10), so presching the gospel is prophecy.
I believe Rev.19 & 20 is the same battle. To me, theologians have gone off track when thinking about how our Lord and his people defeat the beast and his armies.
cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone......slain with the sword of him .....which sword proceeded out of his mouth: Rev.19:20-21
Jesus has already defeated the Roman beast and false religion Psa.2:1-7
Act.4:25-27
That they are cast into the lake of fire is simply their end for not having the word of God burn the impurity from them now.
People want to know when. i believe Jesus focused on why and how.
Shilohsfoal
Member
Jesus said they would flee to the mountains in the gospel.That is when the abomination that causes Jerusalem's desolation is placed..On the day of the Lord.
Mathew 24
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
The mountains is where the caves are.
On the day of the Lord,they will flee to the mountains to hide in caves.
Revelation 6
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Those who belong to Christ ,who didn't worship the beast or it's image or recieve it's mark won't be fleeing that day.That day they are redeemed.
Shilohsfoal
Member
You addressed it after you asked for the verse .
That's why I quoted it again.
Who has control in the end of days, God or man? Who destroys this heaven and earth in the end of days, God or man?
I already showed this to you in scripture that this will be a global event, not an isolated event, but you insist some king of the North is going to destroy the middle east and north Africa, but yet you only use one scripture in Daniel to try and prove your theory. Does this so called king of the north have a name as all kings in the Bible have their names listed.
We are delivered when Christ returns on the last day as we who are Christ own will be caught up to meet Him in the air, Rev 19:11-21; 1Corinthians 15:50-58, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18.
journeymanisnothing
Member
Well wherever it was, I believe Zech.14:5 is better rendered,
The valley between the hills will be filled in, yes, it will be blocked as far as Jasol, it will be filled in as it was by the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah,
New Jerusalem Bible.
Azel was term used for nobility, denoting height. Besides this,
it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem Zech.14:8
This is a clear reference to the Holy Spirit being given, which past and current.