The Symbol of the Bride.

[Dorothy Mae]

Hi FHG,

Thank you for your comments showing reasons why you disagree with what I wrote.

So let`s have a closer look at -

Rom. 11: 11 - 24. You say ` Jews and Gentiles that are grafted into the branch of Israel as Jesus being the root of the branch,..`

Now we both agree that Jesus is the root, for it (He) is `holy, and nourishes, (fatness of the Olive tree). So the branches we see are Jews and Gentiles. However each are grafted INTO the ROOT which is Christ.

`And if some of the branches were broken off, and you being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree.` (Rom. 11: 17)

The Gentiles are grafted INTO Christ and partake of His holiness and nourishment. Israel is NOT holy nor can nourish us.

1 Cor. 12: 12 - 14. You gave a good history as to why God `divorced` Israel. However you have not shown when He will `marry` again the nation of Israel. This is revealed in Hosea 1: 10 & 11 represented by the Prophet again marrying his prostitute wife.

`In the place where it was said to them `You are not my people, You are the sons of the living God.` (Hosea 1: 10)

`I will betroth you to me FOREVER, in righteousness and justice, in loving kindness and mercy; I will betroth you to me in faithfulness, and you shall know the Lord.` (Hosea 2: 19 & 20)

`And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Him who they have pierced; they will mourn for Him as his only son and grieve for him as one grieves for his first-born.` (Zech. 12: 10)

The Gentiles could always come into Israel, however they were then part of that nation, (eg. Ruth). The Body of Christ however is another `called out` group.

Israel - called out of the nations. (Gentiles)

Body of Christ - called out of Israel and the nations. (Gentiles)

` Give no offence, either to the Jews or to the Greeks, (Gentiles) or to the church of God.` (1 Cor. 10: 32)

When we confuse those three groups delineated by God, then we end up with everything being about US instead of God`s purposes through Christ.

Regards, Marilyn.

The Hosea reference does not say God will again marry Israel. You need some teaching from Jesus that says this, please. We cannot build a whole theology on one verse, as using Hosea alone does.

God promised to spit Israel out and so He did. We are in a new covenant. The old has passed away. There are no promises to Israel except the Messiah which they have rejected. Outside of Jesus there is no name by which anyone can come to God. There is no God marrying Israel who rejected the Messiah. The NT promises this no where.

Now Paul specifically writes there is now no Jew nor Gentile but one group. There is no free or slave nor male or female but one group in christ. Do you need that scripture?

The danger in dividing into groups is that it’s too easy to decide the unpleasant obligations below to the group we are not in, like judged by righteous needs aren’t us.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Would not good deeds done in and through the Lord also be a symbol of the Bride?

Well, the verses indicate the Bride has made herself ready, dressed in white linen which is the righteous deeds she did. I don’t see how else she has made herself ready. The believers are like Jesus in words and deeds, a match.

 

[for_his_glory]

Well, the verses indicate the Bride has made herself ready, dressed in white linen which is the righteous deeds she did. I don’t see how else she has made herself ready. The believers are like Jesus in words and deeds, a match.

I agree, but I was asking Marilyn C that question as I wanted to hear her response as she feels talking about good deeds is off topic. I will wait for her response.

 

[for_his_glory]

1 Cor. 12: 12 - 14. You gave a good history as to why God `divorced` Israel. However you have not shown when He will `marry` again the nation of Israel. This is revealed in Hosea 1: 10 & 11 represented by the Prophet again marrying his prostitute wife.

God did divorce Israel according to Jeremiah 3:8 meaning only those who walked/walk in disobedience to His commands because of their backsliding and committing adultery going after other gods. God has saved a faithful remnant as we read in Rev 7:1-8 in which I understand what was said in Hosea 1:10-11 as that remnant is the faithful bride of Christ throughout every generation being numbered as the sand of the sea as there will be many that will have returned back to God and His Son Christ Jesus.

 

[Marilyn C]

The Hosea reference does not say God will again marry Israel. You need some teaching from Jesus that says this, please. We cannot build a whole theology on one verse, as using Hosea alone does.

God promised to spit Israel out and so He did. We are in a new covenant. The old has passed away. There are no promises to Israel except the Messiah which they have rejected. Outside of Jesus there is no name by which anyone can come to God. There is no God marrying Israel who rejected the Messiah. The NT promises this no where.

Now Paul specifically writes there is now no Jew nor Gentile but one group. There is no free or slave nor male or female but one group in christ. Do you need that scripture?

The danger in dividing into groups is that it’s too easy to decide the unpleasant obligations below to the group we are not in, like judged by righteous needs aren’t us.

Hi Dorothy,

I also believe you cannot build a theology on one scripture.

Yes it is all because of Jesus that people are saved. For remember that those of the OT didn`t have the revelation of Jesus as we do, but they are covered because God accounted to them righteousness, looking ahead to Christ.

God did not make an `oops` with the nation of Israel. God in His omniscience knew that they would turn away from him. Then, because of Jesus` sacrifice as revealed in the Tabernacle details and Feasts, God will restore Israel to Himself for the purpose He had for them.

When Jesus was on earth He confirmed the promises made to the Fathers, and we read of them in the parables. The wedding feast reveals how the Son will come again and `marry` connect with the nation of Israel. (Matt. 22: 1 - 14)

God made the different groups - nations, Israel & the Body of Christ for special purposes under Christ.

The Body of Christ - called out ones from Israel and the nations.

Israel - called out ones from the nations.

Nations.



Regards, Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

God did divorce Israel according to Jeremiah 3:8 meaning only those who walked/walk in disobedience to His commands because of their backsliding and committing adultery going after other gods. God has saved a faithful remnant as we read in Rev 7:1-8 in which I understand what was said in Hosea 1:10-11 as that remnant is the faithful bride of Christ throughout every generation being numbered as the sand of the sea as there will be many that will have returned back to God and His Son Christ Jesus.

Hi FHG,

God divorced the nation of Israel. Yes there were many individuals, `righteous ones` who are mentioned in Heb. 11, who are in the General Assembly awaiting their inheritance of the city - as a bride in the NHNE.

Yet the nation of Israel has a purpose in Christ on earth, and that will be fulfilled in the future. (Zech. 12: 10)

regards, Marilyn.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Hi Dorothy,

I also believe you cannot build a theology on one scripture.

Yes it is all because of Jesus that people are saved. For remember that those of the OT didn`t have the revelation of Jesus as we do, but they are covered because God accounted to them righteousness, looking ahead to Christ.

God did not make an `oops` with the nation of Israel. God in His omniscience knew that they would turn away from him. Then, because of Jesus` sacrifice as revealed in the Tabernacle details and Feasts, God will restore Israel to Himself for the purpose He had for them.

When Jesus was on earth He confirmed the promises made to the Fathers, and we read of them in the parables. The wedding feast reveals how the Son will come again and `marry` connect with the nation of Israel. (Matt. 22: 1 - 14)

God made the different groups - nations, Israel & the Body of Christ for special purposes under Christ.

The Body of Christ - called out ones from Israel and the nations.

Israel - called out ones from the nations.

Nations.



Regards, Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn,

Since you agree one does not build a theology on one verse, where are the other verses that say that God will again marry Israel after some of them or many most, rejected and killed the Messiah sent? The timeline is critical. The divorce, if you will, happened a few decades after the Resurrection. The Bride is the church, Jew and Gentile, grafted into Christ into one body, one bride. Remember that the NT church comprised mainly of Jews, is the bride or wife or partner that was promised in the OT where the hearts are changed (whosoever will.)

Now I read again Matthew 22:1-14 and I do not see a promise that God is going to restore the Israel that rejected him. Where is that? What I see is God opened the door for both Jew and Gentile to come in, receive a wedding garment, and be a part. Remember the scripture where Jesus said the door will close and others outside will want in and be told that the door is now closed. Time has passed. Remember Luke 20:9-18 where the owner sent his son thinking the workers will respect the son and they killed him. Did the owner then betroth them to himself? No, he went and destroyed them. This happened in 70 AD. Jesus was saying that the age of the Jews being the place of the dwelling of God was over.

"God made the different groups - nations, Israel & the Body of Christ for special purposes under Christ.

The Body of Christ - called out ones from Israel and the nations.

Israel - called out ones from the nations."

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

So how do you match your theory to this clear scripture? It is important that the Bible interpret the Bible.

Thanks for engaging in these things. I appreciate it.
Blessings,
D

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I agree, but I was asking Marilyn C that question as I wanted to hear her response as she feels talking about good deeds is off topic. I will wait for her response.

I think you told me that threads posted are open for anyone to answer. You can still wait for anyone, including Marilyn to answer. Does not mean others cannot chime in too. If the designated Bride is not doing the deeds Christ did and would have done, she is not the Bride so this is on topic. We cannot extract doing righteous deeds from the question of what is the symbol of the Bride.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The Symbol of the Bride.

God uses this symbol for two different purposes -

1. For Israel on earth in time and into eternity.

2. The New Jerusalem is described AS a bride because of the glory of God.

`Then I John, saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared AS A BRIDE adorned for her husband.......having the glory of God. ` (Rev. 21: 2 & 11)

This city, in the lower heavens, with the 12 tribes of Israel (Rev. 21: 12) was promised to the Old Testament saints.

` God is not ashamed to be called their (OT) God, for He has prepared a city for them.`(Heb. 11: 16)

And they are the part of the promise to Abraham that some of his descendants will be as the stars of heaven - a prominent place in the lower heavens.

This city will be the connecting of the spiritual and physical realms, thus described as a `bride.`



Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn,

Can you explain the connecting of the spiritual and the physical realms and why you think the phrase "as a bride" means this or results in this? I still do not see the connection.

Thanks,
D

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Hi Dorothy,

I also believe you cannot build a theology on one scripture.

Yes it is all because of Jesus that people are saved. For remember that those of the OT didn`t have the revelation of Jesus as we do, but they are covered because God accounted to them righteousness, looking ahead to Christ.

God did not make an `oops` with the nation of Israel. God in His omniscience knew that they would turn away from him. Then, because of Jesus` sacrifice as revealed in the Tabernacle details and Feasts, God will restore Israel to Himself for the purpose He had for them.

When Jesus was on earth He confirmed the promises made to the Fathers, and we read of them in the parables. The wedding feast reveals how the Son will come again and `marry` connect with the nation of Israel. (Matt. 22: 1 - 14)

God made the different groups - nations, Israel & the Body of Christ for special purposes under Christ.

The Body of Christ - called out ones from Israel and the nations.

Israel - called out ones from

Hi FHG,

God divorced the nation of Israel. Yes there were many individuals, `righteous ones` who are mentioned in Heb. 11, who are in the General Assembly awaiting their inheritance of the city - as a bride in the NHNE.

Yet the nation of Israel has a purpose in Christ on earth, and that will be fulfilled in the future. (Zech. 12: 10)

regards, Marilyn.

Wasn't the purpose in Christ the 12 apostles who spread the Gospel?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I agree, but I was asking Marilyn C that question as I wanted to hear her response as she feels talking about good deeds is off topic. I will wait for her response.

Ok, I can see why you wonder or asked M about good deeds not being on topic and it’s a valid question. I didn’t respond well. I meant if the Bride hasn’t made herself ready by her deeds, what else is there?

 

[eddif]

The Symbol of the Bride.

God uses this symbol for two different purposes -

1. For Israel on earth in time and into eternity.

2. For the New Jerusalem in eternity.



1. Israel`s relationship to God was as a bride/wife, and God the husband/master was well known in the Old Testament.

`For your Maker is your husband, the Lord of hosts is His name;....(Isa. 54: 5)

`I will betroth you to me forever; yes, I will betroth you to me in righteousness and justice, in loving-kindness and mercy. I will betroth you to me in faithfulness, and you shall know the Lord.` (Hosea 2: 19 & 20)

We know that Israel became unfaithful, God `divorced` them, and thus like Hosea, (the type), marries again His wife. (Rev. 19: 7) When God connects, (marries again) the nation of Israel they will rule over the nations of the earth as promised. (Dan. 7: 27)

This is part of the promise to Abraham that some of his descendants will be as the sand of the sea-shore - a predominant place on earth.



2. The New Jerusalem is described AS a bride because of the glory of God.

`Then I John, saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared AS A BRIDE adorned for her husband.......having the glory of God. ` (Rev. 21: 2 & 11)

This city, in the lower heavens, with the 12 tribes of Israel (Rev. 21: 12) was promised to the Old Testament saints.

` God is not ashamed to be called their (OT) God, for He has prepared a city for them.`(Heb. 11: 16)

And they are the part of the promise to Abraham that some of his descendants will be as the stars of heaven - a prominent place in the lower heavens.

This city will be the connecting of the spiritual and physical realms, thus described as a `bride.`



I do realise that many people have been taught differently and if you would like to post your scriptures we can have a discussion on them.

Marilyn.

Oh my.

While I hear all the words I seem to miss the order.
Betrothed is not a wife
A Virgin is not a woman
Keeping a virgin as a betrothed is better
Marriage is allowed but comes with conflicts

1 Corinthians 7:38 kjv
38. So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better.

I don’t think there seems to be a lot of understanding going on.

Am I off here?

New Jerusalem is in the middle?

eddif

 

[for_his_glory]

Oh my.

While I hear all the words I seem to miss the order.
Betrothed is not a wife
A Virgin is not a woman
Keeping a virgin as a betrothed is better
Marriage is allowed but comes with conflicts

1 Corinthians 7:38 kjv
38. So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better.

I don’t think there seems to be a lot of understanding going on.

Am I off here?

New Jerusalem is in the middle?

eddif

I believe what the topic is about is we being the Bride of Christ and what that symbol is of the Bride.

 

[for_his_glory]

I think you told me that threads posted are open for anyone to answer. You can still wait for anyone, including Marilyn to answer. Does not mean others cannot chime in too. If the designated Bride is not doing the deeds Christ did and would have done, she is not the Bride so this is on topic. We cannot extract doing righteous deeds from the question of what is the symbol of the Bride.

Yes they are opened for anyone to reply, but I was looking for clarity from Marilyn C
I do agree with you about deeds and just needed to know why that would not be part of the discussion as I would think it is very relevant to the discussion.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi FHG,

God divorced the nation of Israel. Yes there were many individuals, `righteous ones` who are mentioned in Heb. 11, who are in the General Assembly awaiting their inheritance of the city - as a bride in the NHNE.

Yet the nation of Israel has a purpose in Christ on earth, and that will be fulfilled in the future. (Zech. 12: 10)

regards, Marilyn.

I agree as God will gather the Jews back to Israel from all the nations they have scattered to for His purpose. Ezekiel 20:33-44

 

[eddif]

I believe what the topic is about is we being the Bride of Christ and what that symbol is of the Bride.

The thread title says bride.

The first post has discussion about:
Bride
Wife
Transition between the two

You want me to bow out?

eddif

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes they are opened for anyone to reply, but I was looking for clarity from Marilyn C
I do agree with you about deeds and just needed to know why that would not be part of the discussion as I would think it is very relevant to the discussion.

I can see that.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I agree as God will gather the Jews back to Israel from all the nations they have scattered to for His purpose. Ezekiel 20:33-44

That was already done before Jesus was born. There is no such promise in the New Testament because by then it was fulfilled. Or do you a promise from Jesus of this monumental event?

The believers, Jew and Henrike grafted into Christ are the Bride. There aren’t two brides.

 

[for_his_glory]

That was already done before Jesus was born. There is no such promise in the New Testament because by then it was fulfilled. Or do you a promise from Jesus of this monumental event?

The believers, Jew and Henrike grafted into Christ are the Bride. There aren’t two brides.

This is nothing personal against you so please do not take it that way, but only as what preterist teach about all things being fulfilled would you believe this. What I am speaking about are those 144,000 from each tribe of Israel, Rev 7:1-8 that John sees in his vision way after the ascension of Jesus that are the righteousness of God that have not yet returned back to Israel as there are still many scattered throughout the world as the generations continue to grow and will become the Bride of Christ.

 

[for_his_glory]

The thread title says bride.

The first post has discussion about:
Bride
Wife
Transition between the two

You want me to bow out?

eddif

No I do not want you to bow out. We are discussing the Bride of Christ found in the OT and NT scriptures.