The Symbol of the Bride.

[for_his_glory]

The believers, Jew and Henrike grafted into Christ are the Bride. There aren’t two bride

What does Henrike, which is German for home ruler or a mighty ruler, have to do with the Bride of Christ?
I never said there are two brides as the Bride of Christ is one body with Jesus being the head of the body.

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn,

Since you agree one does not build a theology on one verse, where are the other verses that say that God will again marry Israel after some of them or many most, rejected and killed the Messiah sent? The timeline is critical. The divorce, if you will, happened a few decades after the Resurrection. The Bride is the church, Jew and Gentile, grafted into Christ into one body, one bride. Remember that the NT church comprised mainly of Jews, is the bride or wife or partner that was promised in the OT where the hearts are changed (whosoever will.)

Now I read again Matthew 22:1-14 and I do not see a promise that God is going to restore the Israel that rejected him. Where is that? What I see is God opened the door for both Jew and Gentile to come in, receive a wedding garment, and be a part. Remember the scripture where Jesus said the door will close and others outside will want in and be told that the door is now closed. Time has passed. Remember Luke 20:9-18 where the owner sent his son thinking the workers will respect the son and they killed him. Did the owner then betroth them to himself? No, he went and destroyed them. This happened in 70 AD. Jesus was saying that the age of the Jews being the place of the dwelling of God was over.

"God made the different groups - nations, Israel & the Body of Christ for special purposes under Christ.

The Body of Christ - called out ones from Israel and the nations.

Israel - called out ones from the nations."

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

So how do you match your theory to this clear scripture? It is important that the Bible interpret the Bible.

Thanks for engaging in these things. I appreciate it.
Blessings,
D

Hi Dorothy,

Quite a lot there. However it does give me a better understanding of what you believe. Let`s just look at the reference in Matt. 22: 1 - 14. Jesus is talking to the people of Israel concerning the rulership (kingdom) of heaven promised to them. (Dan. 7: 27) They would rule over the nations of the world under Christ` rulership. This is called the `Kingdom of heaven.` meaning the rule of heaven through Israel.

This is depicted AS a marriage for His Son. it is the connecting again of Israel to God.

Note the Body of Christ purpose was NOT known to Israel, only when the Lord revealed it to the apostle Paul many years later.

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn,

Can you explain the connecting of the spiritual and the physical realms and why you think the phrase "as a bride" means this or results in this? I still do not see the connection.

Thanks,
D

Hi Dorothy,

Good pick up there.

Remember the `city` the New Jerusalem was made in the heavenly realms, (Heb.11: 10, 16) And we see in Rev. 21: 2 that this city comes down out of heaven from God. It is made of heavenly substance. The people, the OT saints have glorified bodies and not earthly ones. The whole city is described in symbolic terms. It has the glory of God and rulership under Christ.

The city comes down to the lower heavens, the principalities and powers realm. This is where Satan usurped control over the world. However the Lord made this authority realm for Himself. (Col. 1: 16) Thus the Lord`s rulership will be there.

Now to the `connecting.` We know that a `bride` and a `bridegroom,` are joined in one when married. So this is the concept we have with the symbol of the city being AS a bride. When connected to the bridegroom, Christ, then both realms will be under Christ`s rule and `one,` in harmony and in unity.

The (heavenly) `city` is the part that connects to the earth so thus it is the connection of the spiritual and the physical realms.

Hope that is clearer. Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

Wasn't the purpose in Christ the 12 apostles who spread the Gospel?

The 12 disciples/apostles of the Lamb, were to be witnesses of Christ`s life, death, resurrection and ascension. (Acts 1: 22) The apostles after the Lord ascended were to build up and equip the Body of Christ. (Eph. 4: 11 & 12)

 

[Marilyn C]

Oh my.

While I hear all the words I seem to miss the order.
Betrothed is not a wife
A Virgin is not a woman
Keeping a virgin as a betrothed is better
Marriage is allowed but comes with conflicts

1 Corinthians 7:38 kjv
38. So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better.

I don’t think there seems to be a lot of understanding going on.

Am I off here?

New Jerusalem is in the middle?

eddif

Hi eddif,

We are talking about God connecting to Israel as a `wife.` (Isa. 54: 5) `For your Maker is your husband.`

 

[Marilyn C]

Well, the verses indicate the Bride has made herself ready, dressed in white linen which is the righteous deeds she did. I don’t see how else she has made herself ready. The believers are like Jesus in words and deeds, a match.

Hi Dorothy,

`Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His WIFE has made herself ready. And to her was granted to be arrayed in fine line, clean and bright, for the fine linen represents the righteous acts of the saints.` (Rev. 19:7 & 8)

A few important details there.

1. WIFE - Israel is called the wife in scripture and God the husband. (Isa. 54: 5 & 6)

2. LAMB - This title of the Lord`s is only used for Israel as it has to do with their Feasts. (John 1: 29)

3. RIGHTEOUS ACTS - This relates to the OT saints who `worked righteouness.` (Heb. 11: 33) This was because they were prior to the cross.

The believers in the Body of Christ (after the cross) however have His righteousnes (1 Cor. 1: 30) and their work done by the Holy Spirit will be revealed at the Bema seat of Christ.

Note also that the 24 Elders, representative of the Body of Christ are the ones saying `Let US be glad and rejoice...`

Marilyn.

 

[eddif]

Hi eddif,

We are talking about God connecting to Israel as a `wife.` (Isa. 54: 5) `For your Maker is your husband.`

2 Corinthians 11:2 kjv
2. For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you asa chaste virgin to Christ.

Why is this scripture not a major part of the discussion?

Isaiah 54:5 kjv
5. For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

A husband can evidently have a betrothed as well as a wife.

Please explain.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Matthew 22:30 kjv
30. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

The New Jerusalem symbolism is coming down from heaven, so you are talking of betrothal / expoused. The wedding supper might have Jewish persons there. Symbolism is not understood with totally carnal mind, but mind of Christ.

The Jewish side is a type and shadow with complete physical union.

Jesus was introducing the fact that complete physical union can hamper serving Christ Jesus. Not all men can accept this doctrine, and it is not for them.

eddif

 

[eddif]

The symbolism goes from betrothal to union.
So does spiritual union, but different.

eddif

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Hi Dorothy,

Quite a lot there. However it does give me a better understanding of what you believe. Let`s just look at the reference in Matt. 22: 1 - 14. Jesus is talking to the people of Israel concerning the rulership (kingdom) of heaven promised to them. (Dan. 7: 27) They would rule over the nations of the world under Christ` rulership. This is called the `Kingdom of heaven.` meaning the rule of heaven through Israel.

Where do you see Matthew 22 talking about Israel ruling the world? The parable is clearly about the Jewish people (the servants) who refused to come as God (King) called and abused all servants (prophets) sent. So the King (God) sent a force (various physical and spiritual) to destroy those workers (Jews 70 AD.) Then he invited all the others hearing to attend (the age of Jesus and the church.) Where is there any indication to the invited to the wedding and killed rule the world?

Daniel 7:27 days the HOLY people rule. The holy people means people who do his will, not a particular race. This is paralleled the NT in us being called to rule as kings and priests.

This is depicted AS a marriage for His Son. it is the connecting again of Israel to God.

But Israel is not the bride of Christ, the believers are. The Jews who refused were killed in the parable.

Note the Body of Christ purpose was NOT known to Israel, only when the Lord revealed it to the apostle Paul many years later.

Of course it was known by his servants in the OT. It wasn’t a secret. Daniel7:27 shows it was known. There are more too.

Marilyn, your theology that the Jews are to rule the world is not new. The Pharisees taught it in Jesus’ day. The disciples thought so too until Pentecost. Their question to Jesus after the Resurrection shows this. “Master, are you going to now set up the kingdom?” Acts 1:6-7. That was the thought until Pentecost and then never mentioned again as they then understood the Jews will never rule the world as a race. Jesus and his followers rule but not of this world ruling.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Hi Dorothy,

`Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His WIFE has made herself ready. And to her was granted to be arrayed in fine line, clean and bright, for the fine linen represents the righteous acts of the saints.` (Rev. 19:7 & 8)

A few important details there.

1. WIFE - Israel is called the wife in scripture and God the husband. (Isa. 54: 5 & 6)

2. LAMB - This title of the Lord`s is only used for Israel as it has to do with their Feasts. (John 1: 29)

3. RIGHTEOUS ACTS - This relates to the OT saints who `worked righteouness.` (Heb. 11: 33) This was because they were prior to the cross.

The believers in the Body of Christ (after the cross) however have His righteousnes (1 Cor. 1: 30) and their work done by the Holy Spirit will be revealed at the Bema seat of Christ.

Note also that the 24 Elders, representative of the Body of Christ are the ones saying `Let US be glad and rejoice...`

Marilyn.

Marilyn

We are likely to disagree in the end. I will just say with Paul that there is now no longer two groups but just one. One vine inwhich Jew and Gentile are both grafted in. Your position was the OT position which is why you only have OT verses to back you up. The NT position is one body in Christ.

That you designated doing righteous (kind, generous, loving, good, thoughtful, helpful, etc) deeds for others to the OT saints only is sad in my thinking. Jesus died so we could have the power to become like him and this theology tells its adherents not to bother, as “his righteousness” is credited to them so they can ignore being like Jesus for love of God in the world. They needn’t care about others, just be glad they are as righteous as Jesus without having to help a single person.

That is not what you say directly but can you refute that charge by your theology if someone embraces that view after believing your teaching?

As for the Judgement Seat, if a believer doesn’t already know the acts of obedience to Christ they’ve chosen to do, there likely aren’t any. Saying “no” to yourself at the urging of the HS is so difficult that it is never accidental. Those whose works are gold know it. Gold is expensive. Those whose works are hay are likely to be blind to that fact (hay is relatively cheap.)

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The 12 disciples/apostles of the Lamb, were to be witnesses of Christ`s life, death, resurrection and ascension. (Acts 1: 22) The apostles after the Lord ascended were to build up and equip the Body of Christ. (Eph. 4: 11 & 12)

Of course except for Judas, they were the same men.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

What does Henrike, which is German for home ruler or a mighty ruler, have to do with the Bride of Christ?
I never said there are two brides as the Bride of Christ is one body with Jesus being the head of the body.

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I laughed out loud. My auto spell did that and sometimes I cannot correct even right after writing. It is supposed to be “Gentile.” You are kind.

Marilyn said there are two, not you. Maybe I was mixed up. Thanks for the correction…..I’m going to say it…..

I was wrong! (I’m messing with you now.)

 

[Marilyn C]

2 Corinthians 11:2 kjv
2. For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you asa chaste virgin to Christ.

Why is this scripture not a major part of the discussion?

Isaiah 54:5 kjv
5. For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

A husband can evidently have a betrothed as well as a wife.

Please explain.

eddif

Glad you have brought up this scripture as it needs looking into.

2 Cor. 11: 2. Here the Apostle Paul is speaking to his disciples in Corinth. He desires them to be pure and present them as such to the Lord.

Jude 24 `Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and TO PRESENT YOU FAULTLESS before the presence of HIS GLORY. `

So we see that it is the Lord Himself who will present us faultless to Himself NOT Paul.

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

Where do you see Matthew 22 talking about Israel ruling the world? The parable is clearly about the Jewish people (the servants) who refused to come as God (King) called and abused all servants (prophets) sent. So the King (God) sent a force (various physical and spiritual) to destroy those workers (Jews 70 AD.) Then he invited all the others hearing to attend (the age of Jesus and the church.) Where is there any indication to the invited to the wedding and killed rule the world?

Daniel 7:27 days the HOLY people rule. The holy people means people who do his will, not a particular race. This is paralleled the NT in us being called to rule as kings and priests.

But Israel is not the bride of Christ, the believers are. The Jews who refused were killed in the parable.

Of course it was known by his servants in the OT. It wasn’t a secret. Daniel7:27 shows it was known. There are more too.

Marilyn, your theology that the Jews are to rule the world is not new. The Pharisees taught it in Jesus’ day. The disciples thought so too until Pentecost. Their question to Jesus after the Resurrection shows this. “Master, are you going to now set up the kingdom?” Acts 1:6-7. That was the thought until Pentecost and then never mentioned again as they then understood the Jews will never rule the world as a race. Jesus and his followers rule but not of this world ruling.

Please show where the Body of Christ was revealed before Paul?

Please show that the Body of Christ is called the bride?

Please explain why God told Israel they would rule the nations and then goes back on that promise?

(Zech. 14: 6 ff, Joel 3: 2, Micah 4: 1 - 3, Isa. 45: 4, Ez. 17: 22)

 

[Marilyn C]

Marilyn

We are likely to disagree in the end. I will just say with Paul that there is now no longer two groups but just one. One vine inwhich Jew and Gentile are both grafted in. Your position was the OT position which is why you only have OT verses to back you up. The NT position is one body in Christ.

That you designated doing righteous (kind, generous, loving, good, thoughtful, helpful, etc) deeds for others to the OT saints only is sad in my thinking. Jesus died so we could have the power to become like him and this theology tells its adherents not to bother, as “his righteousness” is credited to them so they can ignore being like Jesus for love of God in the world. They needn’t care about others, just be glad they are as righteous as Jesus without having to help a single person.

That is not what you say directly but can you refute that charge by your theology if someone embraces that view after believing your teaching?

As for the Judgement Seat, if a believer doesn’t already know the acts of obedience to Christ they’ve chosen to do, there likely aren’t any. Saying “no” to yourself at the urging of the HS is so difficult that it is never accidental. Those whose works are gold know it. Gold is expensive. Those whose works are hay are likely to be blind to that fact (hay is relatively cheap.)

Dorothy,

I do understand your concern and rightly so, However being like Christ is receiving His divine nature, (2 Peter 2 - 4) Thus the believer`s attitude and behaviour come forth more and more like Christ, for that is the work of the Holy Spirit in the believer. (Rom. 8: 29)

Any who choose to act differently are going their own way and not following Christ.

And yes it is the urging of the Holy Spirit which enables us to know what He desires to work through us. This is not just doing what is right in God`s word for that is the character of Christ. The `gold, silver, precious stones,` are what is done through the enabling of the Holy Spirit in ministry.

The foundation is Christ, His character, (1 Cor. 3: 11) and upon that we `build` by the Holy Spirit `work` that the Lord desires to be accomplished. (1 Cor. 3: 12, Eph. 4: 16)

Marilyn.

 

[eddif]

Where do you see Matthew 22 talking about Israel ruling the world? The parable is clearly about the Jewish people (the servants) who refused to come as God (King) called and abused all servants (prophets) sent. So the King (God) sent a force (various physical and spiritual) to destroy those workers (Jews 70 AD.) Then he invited all the others hearing to attend (the age of Jesus and the church.) Where is there any indication to the invited to the wedding and killed rule the world?

Daniel 7:27 days the HOLY people rule. The holy people means people who do his will, not a particular race. This is paralleled the NT in us being called to rule as kings and priests.

But Israel is not the bride of Christ, the believers are. The Jews who refused were killed in the parable.

Of course it was known by his servants in the OT. It wasn’t a secret. Daniel7:27 shows it was known. There are more too.

Marilyn, your theology that the Jews are to rule the world is not new. The Pharisees taught it in Jesus’ day. The disciples thought so too until Pentecost. Their question to Jesus after the Resurrection shows this. “Master, are you going to now set up the kingdom?” Acts 1:6-7. That was the thought until Pentecost and then never mentioned again as they then understood the Jews will never rule the world as a race. Jesus and his followers rule but not of this world ruling.

Ok
The Jews:
Had the oracles of God
Creation by words
Set up time in day 4
Made man on day 6
Describes a place made for Adam and Eve
Day 7 God rested

The gentiles:
Taught by false gods
god of harvest
god of fertility
god requiring / allowing evil

Who would you like to rule? The people of Noah’s time?
A hint is mankind almost being totally destroyed

Romans 3 says not all Jews were bad. All sinned but some did not bow down to the gods.

I choose Jewish rulers.
Not: magic flying carpets, aliens, big foot, child sacrifice, etc

Ezekiel describes the marking of those Good Jews who grieved over the sins of Israel, and them they were sent to the nations for safety while the residents of Jerusalem were slain. Those Jews descendants returned, and on Pentecost were those righteous people from the nations.

Spirit filled Jews wrote the New Testament and were responsible for the gentile inclusion.
The Jews got better, and the gentiles got better.

I will stop here and say: just about all the Bible we read is Jewish. The 400 years of silence just before Jesus was the destruction of Jewish people of Jerusalem. IMHO.

This thread is based on an old Jewish Apostlr named John.

The one new man rules. (Jew and Gentile)

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

The symbols of the bride begins IMHO in Revelation 4.
Human Anatomy
The heart first. The rule of Jesus over the muscles of the heart.
First repentance in the heart.
Later

eddif

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Glad you have brought up this scripture as it needs looking into.

2 Cor. 11: 2. Here the Apostle Paul is speaking to his disciples in Corinth. He desires them to be pure and present them as such to the Lord.

Jude 24 `Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and TO PRESENT YOU FAULTLESS before the presence of HIS GLORY. `

So we see that it is the Lord Himself who will present us faultless to Himself NOT Paul.

Marilyn.

Dear Marilyn

That is NOT what that verse says. It doesn’t say he will definitively present you faultless and blameless no matter how you’ve behaved to other people. Scripture promises that He is ABLE to do so but obviously you have to
cooperate. The goats were not presented faultless or blameless although he was able to have presented them to be such. And you cannot retreat blaming their thinking because Jesus did not mention either their faith or their thinking in general. We should not embellish the scripture if we want to arrive at truth.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Ok
The Jews:
Had the oracles of God
Creation by words
Set up time in day 4
Made man on day 6
Describes a place made for Adam and Eve
Day 7 God rested

Well Noah wasn’t a Jew. Melchesidek wasn’t a Jew. Enoch wasn’t a Jew. The words of God weren’t limited to the Jews.

The gentiles:
Taught by false gods
god of harvest
god of fertility
god requiring / allowing evil

Not necessarily.

Who would you like to rule? The people of Noah’s time?
A hint is mankind almost being totally destroyed

Noah wasn’t and he was one of them. Do you know that Paul appealed to the pagan Romans for protection from the Jews?

Romans 3 says not all Jews were bad. All sinned but some did not bow down to the gods.

I choose Jewish rulers.
Not: magic flying carpets, aliens, big foot, child sacrifice, etc

I guess I prefer real Christians who don’t outlaw sharing the Gospel like the Jews do.

Ezekiel describes the marking of those Good Jews who grieved over the sins of Israel, and them they were sent to the nations for safety while the residents of Jerusalem were slain. Those Jews descendants returned, and on Pentecost were those righteous people from the nations.

There’s no evidence the different nationalities were blood line Jews. Most were likely converts which were many over the centuries.

Spirit filled Jews wrote the New Testament and were responsible for the gentile inclusion.
The Jews got better, and the gentiles got better.

I think Jesus was responsible for the Gentile inclusion. He actually had to convince Peter against his own desire.

I will stop here and say: just about all the Bible we read is Jewish. The 400 years of silence just before Jesus was the destruction of Jewish people of Jerusalem. IMHO.

This thread is based on an old Jewish Apostlr named John.

The one new man rules. (Jew and Gentile)

Mississippi redneck
eddif

Ok. Yes, of course, to the Jew first was the gospel given. That’s the proper order. Doesn’t make them superior.