The War To End All Wars

[eddif]

We know our Lord in battle against all the powers of darkness defeated them, along with death.
After his victory, we're told we are soldiers who go to battle against spiritual wickedness, conquering them with our King who never leaves us.
The Bible tells us our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will come with his saints in a final battle against the beast and his army (Rev.19). This sounds exactly like the war we're currently engaged in, with the exception that the beast and false prophet aren't cast into the lake of fire, or is their army completely annihilated yet. Regardless, we can confidently say Christ has already defeated the beast, as the beast represents world empires, one of which is Rome, whom Jesus defeated when Pilate sentenced him to death.
So if we now go to war with our Lord and overcome all evil, what need is there to come with him in the future to do those things?
Is it possible that Rev.19 shows from a heavenly minded view what's happening now and that the beast is simply burned after our war to the last believer has ended?

I have gone back to the OP.

One Great War.
How many major battles?

eddif

 

[journeyman]

I have gone back to the OP.

One Great War.
How many major battles?

eddif

The way I see it, anytime people come to faith in Christ is a major victory...so countless.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes, but from the perspective of humility, which the law teaches us through our own unrighteousness,

no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. Rom.3:20

I agree.

Yes, we’ve wrapped that up nicely.

I'm not sure a child left to himself would develope a true sense of right and wrong. We are to train our children.

Teaching them to think of others is necessary. Teaching them what right and wrong means cannot be done. It is inborn. If we look at a pet, we teach them what master likes or doesn’t. That’s it. With growing children, we do not use the what mama likes or not past a certain age. Or if I were to ask you how to define moral right to an atheist, what would you say that encompasses the whole matter? (Relative measures won’t do this.)

 

[journeyman]

Yes, we’ve wrapped that up nicely.

Teaching them to think of others is necessary. Teaching them what right and wrong means cannot be done. It is inborn. If we look at a pet, we teach them what master likes or doesn’t. That’s it. With growing children, we do not use the what mama likes or not past a certain age. Or if I were to ask you how to define moral right to an atheist, what would you say that encompasses the whole matter? (Relative measures won’t do this.)

I get stuck from the beginning of your post, because to me, teaching children to think of others is teaching them whatis right.
As far as the atheist, I would point to what our Lord taught.

 

[eddif]

The way I see it, anytime people come to faith in Christ is a major victory...so countless.

Actually look in chapter 19 for a battle and the enemy defeated.

Look for a situation that exists between battles.

Then Look in chapter 20 for another battle, the foe defeated, and how the victory was won.

We have gotten off the title.

I am going to read for_his_glory again.

eddif

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I get stuck from the beginning of your post, because to me, teaching children to think of others is teaching them whatis right.

Correct but the reason this works is because we’re appealing to an inborn understanding.

As far as the atheist, I would point to what our Lord taught.

They are ignorant of that and still they know right from wrong.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

journeyman, the inborn moral compass is a strong argument for God as there no other solid explanation. The atheist will argue we evolved morals to survive but 2 minutes of honest thought destroys that because the moral urge in a man is usually thwarts not aids survival.

 

[journeyman]

Actually look in chapter 19 for a battle and the enemy defeated.

Look for a situation that exists between battles.

Then Look in chapter 20 for another battle, the foe defeated, and how the victory was won.

We have gotten off the title.

I am going to read for_his_glory again.

eddif

Actually they are the title, because they're the same war, with the exception of facing our King in person.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

journeyman, CS Lewis wrote about this inner moral
compass. You can always tell man has one because he appeals to this when wronged.

 

[eddif]

Romans 3:20 kjv
20. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Which law? There are two forms of the law:
1. Moses law on tablets of stone.
2. Promised law in new hearts of flesh, and in our minds (spirit of mind).

Jeeremiah 31:33 kjv
33. But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Or in NT

Hebrews19:16 kjv
16: This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Ezekiel 36:27 kjv
27. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Philippians 2:13 kjv
13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Now. I could find a secular article on moral compass, and I did. However, I place no weighted value on secular articles.

Job 32:8 kjv
8. But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Well let us see what is said about Elihu.

Job 42:7 kjv
7, And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

So in the book of Job the friends did not speak the truth.

Job 23:12 kjv
12. Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food.

Job in V12 gives credit to God’s words.

Elihu is not acknowledged by Job, the friends, or God himself. And while he gives a good little speech it may have no value. Elihu is angry at people God is showing mercy to.

I vote for what scripture says about God is the source that puts understanding in man at Pentecost.

Sons and daughters prophesy.


eddif

 

[journeyman]

journeyman, the inborn moral compass is a strong argument for God as there no other solid explanation.

I've read all your posts that I havent responded to yet.
I believe God created us with the ability to teach and learn. This doesn't prove evolution. It shows all people are no different from how God created us from the beginning.

The atheist will argue we evolved morals to survive but 2 minutes of honest thought destroys that because the moral urge in a man is usually thwarts not aids survival.

Right

 

[journeyman]

Romans 3:20 kjv
20. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Which law? There are two forms of the law:
1. Moses law on tablets of stone.
2. Promised law in new hearts of flesh, and in our minds (spirit of mind).

Jeeremiah 31:33 kjv
33. But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Or in NT

Hebrews19:16 kjv
16: This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Ezekiel 36:27 kjv
27. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Philippians 2:13 kjv
13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Now. I could find a secular article on moral compass, and I did. However, I place no weighted value on secular articles.

Job 32:8 kjv
8. But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Well let us see what is said about Elihu.

Job 42:7 kjv
7, And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

So in the book of Job the friends did not speak the truth.

Job 23:12 kjv
12. Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food.

Job in V12 gives credit to God’s words.

Elihu is not acknowledged by Job, the friends, or God himself. And while he gives a good little speech it may have no value. Elihu is angry at people God is showing mercy to.

I vote for what scripture says about God is the source that puts understanding in man at Pentecost.

Sons and daughters prophesy.

eddif

: “Lord, who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed.....Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.
Jn.12:38,41

In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord, high and exalted, seated on a throne; and the train of his robe filled the temple. Isa.6:1

Isaiah saw Gods' mangled body. Mangled for doing right,

Job finally saw him also,

now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes. Job 42:5-6

Job was brleing conformed to the image of God on earth,

there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Job 1:8

 

[Dorothy Mae]

: “Lord, who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed.....Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.
Jn.12:38,41

In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord, high and exalted, seated on a throne; and the train of his robe filled the temple. Isa.6:1

Isaiah saw Gods' mangled body. Mangled for doing right,

Job finally saw him also,

now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes. Job 42:5-6

Job was brleing conformed to the image of God on earth,

there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Job 1:8

Isaiah saw Gods glorified body and said so.

 

[eddif]

Isaiah 53:1 kjv
1. Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2. For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

It appears Isaiah saw Jesus in his wounded and bruised body condition.

Isaiah was aware he had carried out the will of the father and was well pleasing to the father.

Isaiah 53. 6 kjv
6. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7.He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of
the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Thomas saw the crucified Christ risen.
Who did Isaiah see?

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[journeyman]

Isaiah saw Gods glorified body and said so.

Isaiah also saw his body mangled, meaning glorified,

If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, .....he is glorified. 1Pet.4:14

Why? Because it shows his great mercy towards sinners who were hurting him. They were being conformed to his image. This is why Job felt ashamed. He saw the One who suffered through no fault of his own.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Isaiah 53:1 kjv
1. Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2. For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

It appears Isaiah saw Jesus in his wounded and bruised body condition.

Doesn’t say that he saw Him. He didn’t write that he did. You are adding a vision where no vision occurred.

Isaiah was aware he had carried out the will of the father and was well pleasing to the father.

Isaiah 53. 6 kjv
6. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7.He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of
the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Thomas saw the crucified Christ risen.
Who did Isaiah see?

The Lord high and lifted up. All the disciples more mor

Isaiah also saw his body mangled, meaning glorified,

If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, .....he is glorified. 1Pet.4:14

Why? Because it shows his great mercy towards sinners who were hurting him. They were being conformed to his image. This is why Job felt ashamed. He saw the One who suffered through no fault of his own.

Where did Isaiah say he saw the mangled body of Jesus?

The mistake you make is assuming what Isaiah KNEW he had to see as a vision. Isaiah wrote “I saw” when he saw something.

 

[eddif]

Isaiah 6 IMHO is Isaiah seeing the calling of Jesus from heaven before his life on earth.
However
Jesus being slain from the foundation of the earth complicates things,

Our natural pacemaker looks like a crucified man.

By the time of Isaiah 53 we know of his visible self.

eddif

 

[journeyman]

Where did Isaiah say he saw the mangled body of Jesus?

The mistake you make is assuming what Isaiah KNEW he had to see as a vision. Isaiah wrote “I saw” when he saw something.

John is saying it,

These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him. Jn.12:41

John cited Isa.53.

it is to one’s glory to overlook an offense. Pro.19:11

 

[eddif]

Isaiah 53:2 kjv
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

eddif

 

[journeyman]

Job and Isaiah saw our Lord this way,

And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; Rev.15:8

I think the smoke was from the burnt offering of himself.