There Is Only One Baptism With the Holy Spirit By Jesus Christ

[cyberjosh]

I don't have any concrete answers Josh, hence I am asking Christians. But I do know that Felix cannot be correct, because if those verses are to be interpreted as Felix claims, then ALL BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS would come to the exact same interpretation and understanding of the entire Scripture!

This is true. I feel I gave the more nuanced of the two replies. :D I merely wanted to follow up on the spirit of Felix's post, even if I don't agree to the letter of it.

And that would also mean that anyone who has a different interpetation and understanding of Scripture to Felix, that they ARE LOST and only Felix and people who share his exact interpretation and understanding of entire Scripture are saved and everyone else is lost...

Funny, that's what one denomination said for a long time too... Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus (if narrowly applied to a single denomination).

God Bless,
~Josh

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

This is true. I feel I gave the more nuanced of the two replies. :D I merely wanted to follow up on the spirit of Felix's post, even if I don't agree to the letter of it...

I am very happy Josh you do not completely agree with what Felix says, because any man who teaches what Felix does, and any man who claims to be infallible in Scripture and claims to have perfect interpretation and perfect understanding of entire Scripture is someone to be avoided.

In my entire Christian life, I have only ever heard 2 people claim they have perfect interpretation and perfect understanding of entire Scripture. One is the POPE and another man was a CULT leader who deceived many!

 

[felix]

Felix, you have brought a lot of humour into my day lol In all due respect I am laughing so hard that my belly hurt hehehe.

You just CLAIMED that you have perfect interpretation and perfect understanding of the entire Scripture! In other words, you just claimed you are INFALLIBLE when it comes to God's Word! I have only ever known the Pope to make that claim before.

Felix, why don't you go and teach Bible Scholars what the Bible teaches, I am sure they will welcome you with open arms seeing you have perfect interpretation and perfect understanding of the entire Scripture!

And I have a question for you Felix. Do you believe that any Christian who has a DIFFERENT interpretation and DIFFERENT understanding of Scripture to you, that they are LOST and the verses John 14:26 and 1John 2:27 does not apply to them?

Seeing you believe you have perfect interpretation and perfect understanding of the entire Scripture, then it would reason that you believe that everyone who differs to you in their interpretation and understanding of Scripture is LOST and do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? YES OR NO?

It is the Holy Spirit who will teach us all things not that we are instantly loaded with all information.

Sometimes, God waits until we are mature in Spirit to understand the deep things of God. For people who are babies, God will give only milk until they grow because, giving solids to babies will hurt them.

God is always to reveal everything to us.

(Amos 3:7) Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets.

But we are not ready to receive it nor understand it.

 

[Stormcrow]

Further Peter is writing this letter to common people who are Gentiles as in 1Pet 1:1.

Not to derail this thread too far, but Peter was writing to Jewish believers of the diaspora, just as James was:

{1} Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia...1 Peter 1:1 (NASB)

Peter would not have referred to Gentiles living in their own homelands as "resident aliens." Further, Peter's greeting is consistent with James 1:1:

{1} James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad: Greetings. James 1:1 (NASB)

Finally, Paul tells us in Galatians to whom he and Peter were sent as apostles:

{7} But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised {8} (for He who effectually worked for Peter in his apostleship to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles), {9} and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. Galatians 2:7-9 (NASB)

Peter was an apostle to the Jews, and the greeting of I Peter 1:1 reflects that fact, just as was the case with James.

 

[felix]

Not to derail this thread too far, but Peter was writing to Jewish believers of the diaspora, just as James was:

{1} Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia...1 Peter 1:1 (NASB)

Peter would not have referred to Gentiles living in their own homelands as "resident aliens." Further, Peter's greeting is consistent with James 1:1:

{1} James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad: Greetings. James 1:1 (NASB)

Finally, Paul tells us in Galatians to whom he and Peter were sent as apostles:

{7} But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised {8} (for He who effectually worked for Peter in his apostleship to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles), {9} and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. Galatians 2:7-9 (NASB)

Peter was an apostle to the Jews, and the greeting of I Peter 1:1 reflects that fact, just as was the case with James.

Stormcrow, agreed! :nod

 

[cyberjosh]

It is the Holy Spirit who will teach us all things not that we are instantly loaded with all information.

Sometimes, God waits until we are mature in Spirit to understand the deep things of God. For people who are babies, God will give only milk until they grow because, giving solids to babies will hurt them.

God is always to reveal everything to us.

(Amos 3:7) Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets.

But we are not ready to receive it nor understand it.

That's pretty much what I said (and Levi too, about understanding as we can bear it). I had a feeling that's what you meant, although I can see where TruthSeeker2012 may have gotten the wrong idea from what you said.

God Bless,
~Josh

 

[cyberjosh]

The apple has fallen far from the tree as regards this topic (to which I admittedly contributed). The last time we were on topic was at the bottom of page 5. Would anyone like to pick it back up from there? Bonairos and I left some posts which were not replied to.

 

[Bonairos]

Bonairos

I don’t look back at what I said in the past. It takes too much time, and how I understand and articulate things changes over time. And since I never look back, you’ll have to forgive me if I don’t remember who you are or what I said to give you that impression.

Here’s a leading question for you. How many baptisms do you believe in regarding those who are in Christ, in contradiction to Paul saying there’s only one baptism?

No problem in forgetting (and not worth bringing back to remembrance at this time). So let's take it as if this is the first time.

The question today, "Are you now (again) a believer in God or do you still claim to be a non-believer attempting to explain biblical matters to those who do believe?"

I ask because you still go by the moniker "FORMER" Christian. Your response could make a difference in how your posts are received and the spirit in which they derive from.

Upon receiving an answer, I will gladly respond to your question.



Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

It is the Holy Spirit who will teach us all things not that we are instantly loaded with all information.

Sometimes, God waits until we are mature in Spirit to understand the deep things of God. For people who are babies, God will give only milk until they grow because, giving solids to babies will hurt them.

God is always to reveal everything to us.

(Amos 3:7) Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets.

But we are not ready to receive it nor understand it.

So obviously you believe you have reached the perfect maturity of a human being seeing you claimed that you have perfect interpretation and perfect understanding of entire Scripture!!!

 

[Former Christian]

Bonairos

“The question today, "Are you now (again) a believer in God or do you still claim to be a non-believer attempting to explain biblical matters to those who do believe?" â€

Before I answer that question, answer this. Do you believe that Christianity and the Bible are so entwined that in order to believe in one, one must of necessity believe in the other also?

FC

 

[Stormcrow]

Do you believe that Christianity and the Bible are so entwined that in order to believe in one, one must of necessity believe in the other also?

Seems pretty hard to have an objective faith in one without believing in the other, since the Bible testifies of Christ and Christ testifies to the veracity and authority of the Bible.

What good is faith that isn't grounded in truth?

 

[felix]

So obviously you believe you have reached the perfect maturity of a human being seeing you claimed that you have perfect interpretation and perfect understanding of entire Scripture!!!

First of all, I never said I reached perfect maturity.

Secondly, you mix 'perfect' with 'complete', although it looks same but it's different. Perfect is with no error. If you ask me do I have 'perfect' understanding? Yes, because, it is the Holy Spirit who teaches every believer. If you ask me do I have complete understanding? Absolutely no, because God is unsearchable.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

First of all, I never said I reached perfect maturity.

Secondly, you mix 'perfect' with 'complete', although it looks same but it's different. Perfect is with no error. If you ask me do I have 'perfect' understanding? Yes, because, it is the Holy Spirit who teaches every believer. If you ask me do I have complete understanding? Absolutely no, because God is unsearchable.

You say you have perfect interpretation and perfect understanding of entire Scripture, yet when I asked you to explain to me what the Mark of the beast is, you said you do not know yet!

You contradict yourself over and over.

 

[felix]

You say you have perfect interpretation and perfect understanding of entire Scripture, yet when I asked you to explain to me what the Mark of the beast is, you said you do not know yet!

You contradict yourself over and over.

The verse states, (Rev 13:17-18) and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number [is] 666.

So the mark of the beast is the number of a man's name which is 666. Which part you didn't understand?

 

[Bonairos]

Bonairos

“The question today, "Are you now (again) a believer in God or do you still claim to be a non-believer attempting to explain biblical matters to those who do believe?" â€

Before I answer that question, answer this . . ."

Forgive me for chuckling but seriously, what has my theological beliefs have to do with who you declare yourself to be?

It's a simple question (which you can answer).

Again I ask because your postings imply that you are attempting to educate believers on biblical matters. Credibility and discernment requires that you state your position (or lack thereof) in Christ.

And that especially because you have stated numerous times in previous threads that you are a "former" Christian, self proclaimed athiest. Has that changed?


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!



TO THE MODS: It may appear that I'm going off thread, but not so. When one seeks to influence the Christian community (on biblical matters), it is wise to discern (and ask if need be), by what authority (spirit) they attempt to do so.

 

[Former Christian]

Bonairos

Stormcrow gave this answer to my question,

“Seems pretty hard to have an objective faith in one without believing in the other, since the Bible testifies of Christ and Christ testifies to the veracity and authority of the Bible. What good is faith that isn't grounded in truth?â€

Do you agree or disagree?

FC

 

[cyberjosh]

I am still studying on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, but my current convictions about it (which I have held for a while) is that the Baptism of the Spirit happens for everyone at conversion when they believe - and possibly is even the very agency and means of our regeneration (Titus 3:5).

For this interpretation I am also in the company of good theologians, IMO. See this link for quotations concerning that: http://thegracetabernacle.org/quotes/Holy_Spirit-Baptism.htm

 

[Bonairos]

Bonairos

Stormcrow gave this answer to my question,

“Seems pretty hard to have an objective faith in one without believing in the other, since the Bible testifies of Christ and Christ testifies to the veracity and authority of the Bible. What good is faith that isn't grounded in truth?â€

Do you agree or disagree?

FC

Kudos to Stormcrow for answering your question!

I'd like to say the same for you. However it's quite difficult when you evade a simple question informing this Christian community on your position in Christ (especially as you post to instruct those who do believe in God).

So is it still "Former Christian" as in no longer having a belief in God's existence, as you previously stated? Or has things changed?

As stated before, credibility and discernment requires an answer to avoid assumptions when conversations refer to the True and Living God.


Be blessed, be blessed and be Bold!

 

[Bonairos]

In line with the thread, baptism(s), Holy Spirit, etc, here's another link, that for the most part I agree with (isn't technolgy great that we can provide a link that readily articulates our position?! HAHA!).

The Baptism in the Holy Spirit | Speaking in Tongues | Baptism of the Holy Ghost | Christian Faith Site



Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

The verse states, (Rev 13:17-18) and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number [is] 666.

So the mark of the beast is the number of a man's name which is 666. Which part you didn't understand?

Stay on topic please. I am going to open a new thread regarding this.