These Signs Will Follow Those Who Believe (Mark 16:17)

[Alfred Persson]

So Scripture, including the words of Christ, is not spoken to us? Okay then, I'm not going to discuss this with you until you come to an understanding of the truth.

Jesus wasn't rebuking YOUR unbelief when He said this to the eleven. "He who" would be those of the hundreds or perhaps thousands of disciples then living, the Eleven would know which of them really believed if the signs followed them:

14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.
15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
17 "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
18 "they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
19 So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen. (Mk. 16:14-20 NKJ)

Then Mark says Jesus' prophecy was fulfilled to the Eleven, and confirming signs followed this special group of believers Christ selected Himself, in the 1st century. Like the apostle Paul for example.

It doesn't apply to us, and you will learn that if you drink poison and handle snakes.

 

[jaybo]

Jesus wasn't rebuking YOUR unbelief when He said this to the eleven. "He who" would be those of the hundreds or perhaps thousands of disciples then living, the Eleven would know which of them really believed if the signs followed them:

14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.
15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
17 "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
18 "they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
19 So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen. (Mk. 16:14-20 NKJ)

Then Mark says Jesus' prophecy was fulfilled to the Eleven, and confirming signs followed this special group of believers Christ selected Himself, in the 1st century. Like the apostle Paul for example.

It doesn't apply to us, and you will learn that if you drink poison and handle snakes.

Considering that the "long ending" of Mark that appears in the KJV and elsewhere as part of Scripture has no historical authenticity, those who drink poison and play with snakes because they believe the Bible guarantees their safety are idiots.

 

[andy pandy]

You deflected. My point is: YOU haven't see this:

2 and a certain man, being lame from the womb of his mother, was being carried, whom they were laying every day at the gate of the temple, called Beautiful, to ask a kindness from those entering into the temple,
3 who, having seen Peter and John about to go into the temple, was begging to receive a kindness.
4 And Peter, having looked stedfastly toward him with John, said, 'Look toward us;'
5 and he was giving heed to them, looking to receive something from them;
6 and Peter said, 'Silver and gold I have none, but what I have, that I give to thee; in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and be walking.'
7 And having seized him by the right hand, he raised him up, and presently his feet and ankles were strengthened,
8 and springing up, he stood, and was walking, and did enter with them into the temple, walking and springing, and praising God;
9 and all the people saw him walking and praising God,
10 they were knowing him also that this it was who for a kindness was sitting at the Beautiful gate of the temple, and they were filled with wonder and amazement at what hath happened to him.
11 And at the lame man who was healed holding Peter and John, all the people ran together unto them in the porch called Solomon's -- greatly amazed,
(Acts 3:2-11 YLT)

What you have is a fraud, hypnotic effects where people think they are healed but remain sick.

But what it has done is subvert your ability to think critically, and recognize the fraud.

Unfortunately for all of you charismaniacs, one day the Lawless One False Christ will appear, and he will do real miracles, but by then you will be so hardened against God's Word of Truth, you will continue to follow the miracle worker EVEN as he morphs into the 666 Beast and demands you take his mark. Charismanics will do that, because he will do supernatural wonders that lie and deceive "the Experiencers".

3 let not any one deceive you in any manner, because -- if the falling away may not come first, and the man of sin be revealed -- the son of the destruction,
4 who is opposing and is raising himself up above all called God or worshipped, so that he in the sanctuary of God as God hath sat down, shewing himself off that he is God -- the day doth not come.
...
9 him, whose presence is according to the working of the Adversary, in all power, and signs, and lying wonders,
10 and in all deceitfulness of the unrighteousness in those perishing, because the love of the truth they did not receive for their being saved,
11 and because of this shall God send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie,
12 that they may be judged -- all who did not believe the truth, but were well pleased in the unrighteousness. (2 Thess. 2:3-12 YLT)

I am amazed how much you know about me seeing as we have never met.

 

[Alfred Persson]

I am amazed how much you know about me seeing as we have never met.

If I said anything about you personally I apologize. I don't know you and I have no opinion about you personally or your experiences.

Not referring to you personally, only the opinion Bible supernatural things happen today. I do not believe it because:

"if Bible signs and wonders were happening today, scientists would be studying the healings etc. They would be amazed how missing limbs eyes body organs suddenly reappeared, in fully healed people. 100s if not 1000s of scientists, big name corporations, everyone would be investigating it."

No one's missing limbs are reappearing today, the dead are not being raised up. Therefore, no web sites of scientific inquiry.

Therefore, whatever "signs and wonders" are happening today, they are NOT what we read about in the Bible. It would be a fraud on the public to claim they are the same.

 

[andy pandy]

If I said anything about you personally I apologize. I don't know you and I have no opinion about you personally or your experiences.

Not referring to you personally, only the opinion Bible supernatural things happen today. I do not believe it because:

"if Bible signs and wonders were happening today, scientists would be studying the healings etc. They would be amazed how missing limbs eyes body organs suddenly reappeared, in fully healed people. 100s if not 1000s of scientists, big name corporations, everyone would be investigating it."

No one's missing limbs are reappearing today, the dead are not being raised up. Therefore, no web sites of scientific inquiry.

Therefore, whatever "signs and wonders" are happening today, they are NOT what we read about in the Bible. It would be a fraud on the public to claim they are the same.

I have seen and been involved in both.

 

[andy pandy]

You deflected. My point is: YOU haven't see this:

2 and a certain man, being lame from the womb of his mother, was being carried, whom they were laying every day at the gate of the temple, called Beautiful, to ask a kindness from those entering into the temple,
3 who, having seen Peter and John about to go into the temple, was begging to receive a kindness.
4 And Peter, having looked stedfastly toward him with John, said, 'Look toward us;'
5 and he was giving heed to them, looking to receive something from them;
6 and Peter said, 'Silver and gold I have none, but what I have, that I give to thee; in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and be walking.'
7 And having seized him by the right hand, he raised him up, and presently his feet and ankles were strengthened,
8 and springing up, he stood, and was walking, and did enter with them into the temple, walking and springing, and praising God;
9 and all the people saw him walking and praising God,
10 they were knowing him also that this it was who for a kindness was sitting at the Beautiful gate of the temple, and they were filled with wonder and amazement at what hath happened to him.
11 And at the lame man who was healed holding Peter and John, all the people ran together unto them in the porch called Solomon's -- greatly amazed,
(Acts 3:2-11 YLT)

What you have is a fraud, hypnotic effects where people think they are healed but remain sick.

But what it has done is subvert your ability to think critically, and recognize the fraud.

Unfortunately for all of you charismaniacs, one day the Lawless One False Christ will appear, and he will do real miracles, but by then you will be so hardened against God's Word of Truth, you will continue to follow the miracle worker EVEN as he morphs into the 666 Beast and demands you take his mark. Charismanics will do that, because he will do supernatural wonders that lie and deceive "the Experiencers".

3 let not any one deceive you in any manner, because -- if the falling away may not come first, and the man of sin be revealed -- the son of the destruction,
4 who is opposing and is raising himself up above all called God or worshipped, so that he in the sanctuary of God as God hath sat down, shewing himself off that he is God -- the day doth not come.
...
9 him, whose presence is according to the working of the Adversary, in all power, and signs, and lying wonders,
10 and in all deceitfulness of the unrighteousness in those perishing, because the love of the truth they did not receive for their being saved,
11 and because of this shall God send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie,
12 that they may be judged -- all who did not believe the truth, but were well pleased in the unrighteousness. (2 Thess. 2:3-12 YLT)

I didn't know it was a requirement to have seen that for God to use you in a healing ministry

 

[Alfred Persson]

I have seen and been involved in both.

I don't doubt something excites a lot of believers. I don't think its the same thing we see in the NT because that was truly astounding, amazing how all who showed up for healing, were healed:

16 Also a multitude gathered from the surrounding cities to Jerusalem, bringing sick people and those who were tormented by unclean spirits, and they were all healed. (Acts 5:16 NKJ)

 

[Alfred Persson]

I didn't know it was a requirement to have seen that for God to use you in a healing ministry

I'm not stopping you:

38 Now John answered Him, saying, "Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us."
39 But Jesus said, "Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me.
40 "For he who is not against us is on our side. (Mk. 9:38-40 NKJ)

But if anyone ask me what I think of modern day charismania, I say its not the same as the NT charismata. Just as counterfeit money is known by its dissimilarity to genuine money, the dissimilarity of modern day signs and wonders and the NT reveals they are not the same thing.

For example, when I experienced an "out of the body trip to heaven", I immediately suspected something was wrong because Paul didn't know if he was out of the body or not. But I did:

2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago-- whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows-- such a one was caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I know such a man-- whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows--
4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. (2 Cor. 12:2-4 NKJ)

That dissimilarity made me wary, but didn't stop it. It wasn't until I obeyed the Bible and tested the spirit talking to me, asking if he confessed Jesus is LORD, that Jesus came in the Flesh. Then his disguise dropped and I saw him for the evil being he was.

Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor. 12:3 NKJ)

1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,
3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. (1 Jn. 4:1-3 NKJ)

So now, if anyone tells me they went to heaven in a vision, while out of the body, I immediately reject the vision as dissimilar to that of Paul's. That tiny difference is all the proof I need the vision was not from God.

If you want to read about that, I tell the whole story here:

Test The Spirits in Dreams Visions Abductions | End Time News

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.(1 Jn. 4:1 NKJ) I had an "out of body" experience where the illusion I had traveled to heaven was very real, but Scripture implies Demons can "download" a...

endtimenews.net

 

[andy pandy]

I don't know you and I have no opinion about you personally or your experiences.

Joke of course as you have been making your opinion and I emphasize your opinion known loud and clear.

 

[andy pandy]

You deflected. My point is: YOU haven't see this:

2 and a certain man, being lame from the womb of his mother, was being carried, whom they were laying every day at the gate of the temple, called Beautiful, to ask a kindness from those entering into the temple,
3 who, having seen Peter and John about to go into the temple, was begging to receive a kindness.
4 And Peter, having looked stedfastly toward him with John, said, 'Look toward us;'
5 and he was giving heed to them, looking to receive something from them;
6 and Peter said, 'Silver and gold I have none, but what I have, that I give to thee; in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and be walking.'
7 And having seized him by the right hand, he raised him up, and presently his feet and ankles were strengthened,
8 and springing up, he stood, and was walking, and did enter with them into the temple, walking and springing, and praising God;
9 and all the people saw him walking and praising God,
10 they were knowing him also that this it was who for a kindness was sitting at the Beautiful gate of the temple, and they were filled with wonder and amazement at what hath happened to him.
11 And at the lame man who was healed holding Peter and John, all the people ran together unto them in the porch called Solomon's -- greatly amazed,
(Acts 3:2-11 YLT)

What you have is a fraud, hypnotic effects where people think they are healed but remain sick.

But what it has done is subvert your ability to think critically, and recognize the fraud.

Unfortunately for all of you charismaniacs, one day the Lawless One False Christ will appear, and he will do real miracles, but by then you will be so hardened against God's Word of Truth, you will continue to follow the miracle worker EVEN as he morphs into the 666 Beast and demands you take his mark. Charismanics will do that, because he will do supernatural wonders that lie and deceive "the Experiencers".

3 let not any one deceive you in any manner, because -- if the falling away may not come first, and the man of sin be revealed -- the son of the destruction,
4 who is opposing and is raising himself up above all called God or worshipped, so that he in the sanctuary of God as God hath sat down, shewing himself off that he is God -- the day doth not come.
...
9 him, whose presence is according to the working of the Adversary, in all power, and signs, and lying wonders,
10 and in all deceitfulness of the unrighteousness in those perishing, because the love of the truth they did not receive for their being saved,
11 and because of this shall God send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie,
12 that they may be judged -- all who did not believe the truth, but were well pleased in the unrighteousness. (2 Thess. 2:3-12 YLT)

What did you study?

 

[Alfred Persson]

Not a cynic. I obey Scripture:

Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. (Jude 1:3 NKJ)

"Once for all delivered" in the 1st century, no other deliveries are scheduled, therefore the "revelatory gifts of the Holy Spirit" ceased when the apostles and prophets whom Jesus personally chose, went home to the LORD.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Joke of course as you have been making your opinion and I emphasize your opinion known loud and clear.

But as you pointed out, I do not know you. Therefore, nothing I say is about you personally. I apologize for anything personal I may have said, I won't do it again.

But I must tell the truth, the signs and wonders people claim to do today seem vastly inferior to what the NT apostles and prophets did, recorded in the Bible. If it were a product where "consumers" are protected, the label would declare they are not the same thing, or they would be liable to a class action suit for fraud.

 

[andy pandy]

Not a cynic. I obey Scripture:

Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. (Jude 1:3 NKJ)

"Once for all delivered" in the 1st century, no other deliveries are scheduled, therefore the "revelatory gifts of the Holy Spirit" ceased when the apostles and prophets whom Jesus personally chose, went home to the LORD.

Sorry but you are wrong. At a FGBI breakfast where I was the speaker when I offered to pray for people, as I went to the first couple the Lord said to me "don't ask them what they want prayer for, I will tell you?. As I stood next to them the Spirit said to me "Incest" so I prayed for the wife without revealing the incest. Afterward, I was talking to them and said "It was incest, wasn't it? She said her grandfather had raped her.

In case you don't know I was operating in the revelatory gift of discernment.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Sorry but you are wrong. At a FGBI breakfast where I was the speaker when I offered to pray for people, as I went to the first couple the Lord said to me "don't ask them what they want prayer for, I will tell you?. As I stood next to them the Spirit said to me "Incest" so I prayed for the wife without revealing the incest. Afterward, I was talking to them and said "It was incest, wasn't it? She said her grandfather had raped her.

In case you don't know I was operating in the revelatory gift of discernment.

Or its the usual telepathic messaging from evil spirits. No way for us to know, but hardly impressive.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Sorry but you are wrong. At a FGBI breakfast where I was the speaker when I offered to pray for people, as I went to the first couple the Lord said to me "don't ask them what they want prayer for, I will tell you?. As I stood next to them the Spirit said to me "Incest" so I prayed for the wife without revealing the incest. Afterward, I was talking to them and said "It was incest, wasn't it? She said her grandfather had raped her.

In case you don't know I was operating in the revelatory gift of discernment.

While we know from the reports of spiritists and experiencers of UFO abduction that demons are telepathic---we have better proof of that in the teaching of our LORD:

"Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. (Lk. 8:12 NKJ)

Picture that. When the gospel is preached the devil comes and telepathically argues against believing it. Satan "imitates a person's inner voice" so they believe they are "arguing with themselves." Those by the wayside lose the argument, the Devil telepathically took away whatever their hearts had felt for the truth of God.

That is why modern charismania isn't convincing. A demon can impart "a word of knowledge" about someone's sins, telepathically.

What would impress skeptics like me is a prophetic word about something in the future, that couldn't be the result of demonic "guessing."

For example, a demon might know a car's brakes are about to fail, and then through one of their dupes "prophesy" the owner was about to have an accident.

Real prophecy like what we see in Scripture. Where events the prophet or demons had no control over, are predicted. Like when lots were cast for Christ's clothes by soldiers at Calvary. Or that no bones would be broken.

21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
(Deut. 18:21-22 KJV)

 

[hawkman]

What would impress skeptics like me is a prophetic word about something in the future, that couldn't be the result of demonic "guessing."

I have had a prophetic dream. That will get your attention and you will start paying close attention to all your dreams after. God knew how low I would be when the dream happened in real time .

 

[Alfred Persson]

I have had a prophetic dream. That will get your attention and you will start paying close attention to all your dreams after. God knew how low I would be when the dream happened in real time .

Not likely. Like revelatory gifts of the Spirit, I don't believe prophetic dreams are for our day. Dreams like visions, or voices can be manipulated by Satan:

"The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream; And he who has My word, let him speak My word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat?" says the LORD. (Jer. 23:28 NKJ)

"Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams," says the LORD, "and tell them, and cause My people to err by their lies and by their recklessness. Yet I did not send them or command them; therefore they shall not profit this people at all," says the LORD. (Jer. 23:32 NKJ)

Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. (Jude 1:8 NKJ)

God might inform via a dream. But I can't say that ever happened to me.

The opposite was the case for me, the dreams were "false", obviously not of God tempting me to evil.

Thankfully, once I became aware of the source and rejected the false dreams in the name of Christ, they became few.

But every now and then my spirit is tempted to do evil. The best way to dismiss the tempter is to quote scripture.

11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints-- (Eph. 6:11-18 NKJ)

To defeat any desire to do evil I summon up my great desire to live in God's Holy Light in His Presence, with God in love.

This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. (1 Jn. 1:5 NKJ)

No darkness is tolerated in God's presence.

That desire, my love for God defeats the desire to do evil. I find it more effective than "will power".

Defeat a bad desire with a good desire, then the evil is vanquished.

But will power is often too weak to overcome the temptation so I stopped using it.

The more I concentrate my will power to "not do something", the focus seems to give power to the temptation and eventually will power fails.

Like pitting a child against a gorilla, will power is ineffective.

But good desire against evil desire, give power to the good desire and the evil desire vanishes quite easily.

For desire men will scale mountains.

12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.
(Jas. 1:12-17 NKJ)


At least that's been my experience.

 

[hawkman]

God might inform via a dream.

My dream was @ 6 months before I had to live it out . I had forgotten about the dream till I was living it , shocked I was .

But I can't say that ever happened to me.

It could .

The opposite was the case for me, the dreams were "false", obviously not of God tempting me to evil.

Praise God you were able to discern the truth .

 

[Alfred Persson]

My dream was @ 6 months before I had to live it out . I had forgotten about the dream till I was living it , shocked I was .

It could .

Praise God you were able to discern the truth .

According to Scripture, the entire world is being demonically tempted with lusts and sinful desires:

1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. (Eph. 2:1-3 NKJ)

We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. (1 Jn. 5:19 NIV)

The same tests that reveal demons speaking through prophets or during visions, alien abductions....also work during dreams.

Asking those who appear in dreams regardless the disguise: beautiful women etc., Bible personalities, departed loved ones, former love interests etc., angels) if they confess Jesus Christ is LORD (1 Cor. 12:3) or that Jesus Christ came in the flesh (1 John 4:2-3), will strip away their disguise.

Everyone can concentrate on doing these tests during the day, and when asleep they might do it and discover for themselves if evil spirits are trying to corrupt them via dreams.

Test The Spirits in Dreams Visions Abductions | End Time News

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.(1 Jn. 4:1 NKJ) I had an "out of body" experience where the illusion I had traveled to heaven was very real, but Scripture implies Demons can "download" a...

endtimenews.net

 

[andy pandy]

Or its the usual telepathic messaging from evil spirits. No way for us to know, but hardly impressive.

You may not know but that does not surprise me as you seem to delight in calling the work of the Spirit the work of Satan. Of course as you know so much you know what the outcome of doing that is.