These Signs Will Follow Those Who Believe (Mark 16:17)

[Hopeful]

You lost me. God always honors His Son. But I'll refrain from pointing to any particular church as "the best," all of them either are growing in Christ or becoming apostate. In every major denomination. I'll let God sort them out. My authority isn't any particular church, its the Word of God Holy Scripture.

I was reading Acts 3 this evening at McDonalds, and saw how the lame man was healed by God at the hands of Peter.
Peter said..."And His name through faith in His name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by Him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all." (Acts 3:16)
With His name and faith in His name, God will honor the Son.

Without faith, there will be no miracles.

 

[Alfred Persson]

In Early Christian Writings it is said any prophet who asks for money is a false prophet. That rules out 100% charismaniac prophets!


Let every apostle that comes to you be received as the Lord. But he will not remain except one day; but if there be need, also the next. But if he remains three days, he is a false prophet. And when the apostle goes away, let him take nothing but bread until he lodges. However, if he asks for money, he is a false prophet. Didache (c. 80–140, E), 7.380.

But not everyone who speaks in the Spirit is a prophet. Rather, only if he holds the ways of the Lord. Therefore, from their ways will the false prophet and the [true] prophet be known.… Every prophet who teaches the truth, if he does not do what he teaches, he is a false prophet.… But whoever says in the Spirit, “Give me money,” or something else, you should not listen to him. But if he says to you to give for the sake of others who are in need, let no one judge him. Didache (c. 80–140, E), 7.380, 381.


Prophecy, Prophets. (1998). In D. W. Bercot (Ed.), A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs: A Reference Guide to More than 700 Topics Discussed by the Early Church Fathers (p. 539). Hendrickson Publishers.

 

[Alfred Persson]

One I have no intention of giving you the mileage and exposure you seem to need and whether I bear false witness of not is another one of your whacky ideas to bolster your superior attitude.

Alfred Persson said:
What have I ever said that is "irrational"? Copy paste it here, with enough of the context so we can read it for ourselves.

To judge whether you bear false witness or not.

Clearly you have no proof. Now readers can judge you. I don't judge you. There is One who will judge you, whom you profess to follow.

 

[Hopeful]

In Early Christian Writings it is said any prophet who asks for money is a false prophet. That rules out 100% charismaniac prophets!


Let every apostle that comes to you be received as the Lord. But he will not remain except one day; but if there be need, also the next. But if he remains three days, he is a false prophet. And when the apostle goes away, let him take nothing but bread until he lodges. However, if he asks for money, he is a false prophet. Didache (c. 80–140, E), 7.380.

But not everyone who speaks in the Spirit is a prophet. Rather, only if he holds the ways of the Lord. Therefore, from their ways will the false prophet and the [true] prophet be known.… Every prophet who teaches the truth, if he does not do what he teaches, he is a false prophet.… But whoever says in the Spirit, “Give me money,” or something else, you should not listen to him. But if he says to you to give for the sake of others who are in need, let no one judge him. Didache (c. 80–140, E), 7.380, 381.


Prophecy, Prophets. (1998). In D. W. Bercot (Ed.), A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs: A Reference Guide to More than 700 Topics Discussed by the Early Church Fathers (p. 539). Hendrickson Publishers.

The false prophets are revealed by their fruit. (Matt 7:15-18)
THAT is biblical.
The didache is non-canonical, and with good reason.

 

[andy pandy]

There are two tests of a prophet that will work ONLY when the prophet is speaking "by the Spirit". If he's just making stuff up like many Charismania prophets, it won't work. They can lie about anything, including whether they believe Jesus is LORD (1 Cor. 12:3) or that He came in the flesh (1 John 4:3).

The "spirit" speaking through the prophet is being tested. John warns we must test the spirit speaking through a prophet because many false prophets exist. While they speak, they can be commanded to confess Jesus Christ "is come in the flesh" (the Incarnation of the Eternal Son of God). If its the Holy Spirit of Truth He will certainly confess it. If its a demon lying about its identity, it cannot confess this truth. That's how we can know the difference between the Spirit of Truth and the spirit of error.

1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. (1 Jn. 4:1-6 KJV)

Those inspired by spirits of error do NOT "hear (obey) scripture truth the apostles taught", their rebellion against God's Word is also how we know the spirit inspiring a "prophet", if its God the Holy Spirit or a lying spirit.

Satan cannot cast out Satan. Demons will not inspire obedience to God's truth, that is the opposite of what they do.

An Antichrist spirit is a spirit who assumes the guise of Christ (or light, righteousness, etc), to oppose Christ.

For more on these things:

Test The Spirits in Dreams Visions Abductions | End Time News

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.(1 Jn. 4:1 NKJ) I had an "out of body" experience where the illusion I had traveled to heaven was very real, but Scripture implies Demons can "download" a...

endtimenews.net

Judfging by this post and many other of your posts you seem to have the ministry of putdowns. I call this a pharisee spirit. as in "just making stuff up like charismatic prophets." There are plenty of prophets that are not your so called charismatic.

According to 1 Cor 12 v 3, they CAN'T lie. You have put your own incorrect slant on that like you regularly do. Note, "NO ONE can be speaking under the influence of the Holy Spirit and say "Curse Jesus" ......no one can say "Jesus is Lord" unless he is under the influence of the Holy Spirit.

That seems pretty straightforward to me.

 

[andy pandy]

Alfred Persson said:
What have I ever said that is "irrational"? Copy paste it here, with enough of the context so we can read it for ourselves.

To judge whether you bear false witness or not.

Clearly you have no proof. Now readers can judge you. I don't judge you. There is One who will judge you, whom you profess to follow.

That seems to be your main ministry, judging others. As for you not judging, don't make me laugh. Your words are full of judgment.

 

[andy pandy]

I don't judge you. There is One who will judge you, whom you profess to follow.

If that is not you judging I don't know what is.

 

[Alfred Persson]

I was reading Acts 3 this evening at McDonalds, and saw how the lame man was healed by God at the hands of Peter.
Peter said..."And His name through faith in His name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by Him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all." (Acts 3:16)
With His name and faith in His name, God will honor the Son.

Without faith, there will be no miracles.

That's not accurate. Consider the following examples. What faith was Lazarus showing after being dead for days? Or here, where the person healed doesn't even know who Peter is:

2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms from those who entered the temple;
3 who, seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple, asked for alms.
4 And fixing his eyes on him, with John, Peter said, "Look at us."
5 So he gave them his attention, expecting to receive something from them.
6 Then Peter said, "Silver and gold I do not have, but what I do have I give you: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk."
7 And he took him by the right hand and lifted him up, and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
8 So he, leaping up, stood and walked and entered the temple with them-- walking, leaping, and praising God.
9 And all the people saw him walking and praising God. (Acts 3:2-9 NKJ)

BUT you have a point where there is no faith, miracles will be few:

57 So they were offended at Him. But Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house."
58 Now He did not do many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
(Matt. 13:57-58 NKJ)

But it was their unbelief that prevented them getting healed, they didn't ask. When a town didn't believe, they ignored Jesus and that resulted in few mighty works being done there.

But all who Jesus healed, were healed whether they believed in Him or not.

5 Now a certain man was there who had an infirmity thirty-eight years.
6 When Jesus saw him lying there, and knew that he already had been in that condition a long time, He said to him, "Do you want to be made well?"
7 The sick man answered Him, "Sir, I have no man to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up; but while I am coming, another steps down before me."
8 Jesus said to him, "Rise, take up your bed and walk."
9 And immediately the man was made well, took up his bed, and walked. And that day was the Sabbath. (Jn. 5:5-9 NKJ)

He didn't know Jesus. He was hoping to be healed by an angel when it disturbed the waters. It was believed the first person into the water would be healed. He was clueless about Christ.

 

[andy pandy]

In Early Christian Writings it is said any prophet who asks for money is a false prophet. That rules out 100% charismaniac prophets!

You said you don;t judge.

 

[andy pandy]

That's not accurate. Consider the following examples. What faith was Lazarus showing after being dead for days? Or here, where the person healed doesn't even know who Peter is:

I hate to say this but you are so dense.

One. You don't have to know the one who is praying for you. I have prayed for a lot of people who I did not know but they still got healed.

The scriptures say without faith it is impossible to please God. It does not say "without the person being prayed for having faith you can't please God which is what you are incorrectly implying. All God needs is for faith to be present. Who has it is irrelevant. But I guess when you are so judgmental of everyone who believes what the scripture says, not that you claim it says, you haven't a hope in hell of ever experiencing such a life-changing God.

There is no doubt you know ABOUT God but you don't know him.

 

[Alfred Persson]

The false prophets are revealed by their fruit. (Matt 7:15-18)
THAT is biblical.
The didache is non-canonical, and with good reason.

I agree, not scripture. But it sheds light on what some Christians believed in the 2nd century, or perhaps even the 1st. For example, check out "the sign of Christ's coming"

The Sign of Jesus’ Coming will be an Opening in the Heavens | End Time News

Both Matthew and Jesus refer to the sign of Jesus' coming as a sign event, something people will see in heaven: Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign (4592 σημεῖον semeion) of Your

endtimenews.net

 

[Alfred Persson]

Judfging by this post and many other of your posts you seem to have the ministry of putdowns. I call this a pharisee spirit. as in "just making stuff up like charismatic prophets." There are plenty of prophets that are not your so called charismatic.

According to 1 Cor 12 v 3, they CAN'T lie. You have put your own incorrect slant on that like you regularly do. Note, "NO ONE can be speaking under the influence of the Holy Spirit and say "Curse Jesus" ......no one can say "Jesus is Lord" unless he is under the influence of the Holy Spirit.

That seems pretty straightforward to me.

So you believe a con man will be prevented from saying "Jesus is Lord"? AND I'm the irrational one?

 

[Alfred Persson]

I read it and disagree with it. Perhaps you should read post #13.

#20 was in reply to #13. If you disagreed, you should have replied to it. And your last didn't make any sense, which I ignored at the time:

If you think that it's valid, don't play around with venomous snakes or drink deadly poison.

Perhaps you meant I should play with snakes, to see if I really believed?

But my exegesis of the last verse, is sound. It plainly says the signs did follow them who believed. That was in the first century. Its a fulfilled prophecy:

17 "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
18 "they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
19 So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen. (Mk. 16:17-20 NKJ)

Therefore, it would be idiocy to play around with snakes, its not for our time. Its a fulfilled Prophecy. Just as I wouldn't go to the Red Sea and smite it with my staff hoping the waters would part, neither will I be handling snakes.

Christ "had spoken to them" in the 1st century, His disciples. It revealed who among them (they numbered in the hundreds, if not thousands by then)----"really believed", "God would work confirming signs".


Its not "spoken to us".

 

[andy pandy]

So you believe a con man will be prevented from saying "Jesus is Lord"? AND I'm the irrational one?

I believe what the word of God says. Not someone who is trying to be something he is not.

 

[andy pandy]

I agree, not scripture. But it sheds light on what some Christians believed in the 2nd century, or perhaps even the 1st. For example, check out "the sign of Christ's coming"

The Sign of Jesus’ Coming will be an Opening in the Heavens | End Time News

Both Matthew and Jesus refer to the sign of Jesus' coming as a sign event, something people will see in heaven: Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign (4592 σημεῖον semeion) of Your

endtimenews.net

He who must always have the last word.

 

[andy pandy]

AND I'm the irrational one?

From the evidence, you have thrown at us definitely yes.

 

[stovebolts]

I hate to say this but you are so dense.

And it's comments like this that gets one banned from a thread.
I encourage everyone to review the Terms Of Service and abide accordingly.

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christianforums.net

 

[andy pandy]

I am convinced sincere Christians can suffer self delusion, be victims of f hypnosis, mesmerism and emotional fanaticism, and mistake these effects for what is seen in the NT:

I consider it fraud people say they manifest the same gifts Paul and Peter did. I have yet to see anyone today do this:

11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.
12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.
13 And of the rest durst no man join himself to them: but the people magnified them.
14 And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)
15 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
(Acts 5:11-16 KJV)

Until I see THAT replicated among Charismatics, whatever they do is something else. Not the same as the gifts of the Holy Spirit in the NT.

When is the last time you heard and saw this:

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
(Acts 2:2-4 KJV)


Never. Until you do, don't bother citing your experiences. Just as my experiences prove nothing to you, yours prove nothing to me.

You must make your case using Scripture and so far you have failed to do that. My legit objections were never answered.

I have noticed that one of your favourite words is "I" I haven't seen this, I haven't seen that. I haven't seen muslims visited by Jesus in the night, but that does not mean it hasn't happened. All that tells us is that "I" haven't seem it.

 

[Alfred Persson]

I have noticed that one of your favourite words is "I" I haven't seen this, I haven't seen that. I haven't seen muslims visited by Jesus in the night, but that does not mean it hasn't happened. All that tells us is that "I" haven't seem it.

You deflected. My point is: YOU haven't see this:

2 and a certain man, being lame from the womb of his mother, was being carried, whom they were laying every day at the gate of the temple, called Beautiful, to ask a kindness from those entering into the temple,
3 who, having seen Peter and John about to go into the temple, was begging to receive a kindness.
4 And Peter, having looked stedfastly toward him with John, said, 'Look toward us;'
5 and he was giving heed to them, looking to receive something from them;
6 and Peter said, 'Silver and gold I have none, but what I have, that I give to thee; in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and be walking.'
7 And having seized him by the right hand, he raised him up, and presently his feet and ankles were strengthened,
8 and springing up, he stood, and was walking, and did enter with them into the temple, walking and springing, and praising God;
9 and all the people saw him walking and praising God,
10 they were knowing him also that this it was who for a kindness was sitting at the Beautiful gate of the temple, and they were filled with wonder and amazement at what hath happened to him.
11 And at the lame man who was healed holding Peter and John, all the people ran together unto them in the porch called Solomon's -- greatly amazed,
(Acts 3:2-11 YLT)

What you have is a fraud, hypnotic effects where people think they are healed but remain sick.

But what it has done is subvert your ability to think critically, and recognize the fraud.

Unfortunately for all of you charismaniacs, one day the Lawless One False Christ will appear, and he will do real miracles, but by then you will be so hardened against God's Word of Truth, you will continue to follow the miracle worker EVEN as he morphs into the 666 Beast and demands you take his mark. Charismanics will do that, because he will do supernatural wonders that lie and deceive "the Experiencers".

3 let not any one deceive you in any manner, because -- if the falling away may not come first, and the man of sin be revealed -- the son of the destruction,
4 who is opposing and is raising himself up above all called God or worshipped, so that he in the sanctuary of God as God hath sat down, shewing himself off that he is God -- the day doth not come.
...
9 him, whose presence is according to the working of the Adversary, in all power, and signs, and lying wonders,
10 and in all deceitfulness of the unrighteousness in those perishing, because the love of the truth they did not receive for their being saved,
11 and because of this shall God send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie,
12 that they may be judged -- all who did not believe the truth, but were well pleased in the unrighteousness. (2 Thess. 2:3-12 YLT)

 

[jaybo]

#20 was in reply to #13. If you disagreed, you should have replied to it. And your last didn't make any sense, which I ignored at the time:

If you think that it's valid, don't play around with venomous snakes or drink deadly poison.

Perhaps you meant I should play with snakes, to see if I really believed?

But my exegesis of the last verse, is sound. It plainly says the signs did follow them who believed. That was in the first century. Its a fulfilled prophecy:

17 "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
18 "they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
19 So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen. (Mk. 16:17-20 NKJ)

Therefore, it would be idiocy to play around with snakes, its not for our time. Its a fulfilled Prophecy. Just as I wouldn't go to the Red Sea and smite it with my staff hoping the waters would part, neither will I be handling snakes.

Christ "had spoken to them" in the 1st century, His disciples. It revealed who among them (they numbered in the hundreds, if not thousands by then)----"really believed", "God would work confirming signs".


Its not "spoken to us".

So Scripture, including the words of Christ, is not spoken to us? Okay then, I'm not going to discuss this with you until you come to an understanding of the truth.