Three person God identified in the Bible?

[Randy]

Nearly 80 years old. My Father was a church pastor, I accepted Christ as my saviour age ten, and was baptised in water, full immersion about two years later. Been studying on and off all that time.
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Did your Father believe in 3 distinct persons of the Godhead? Or do you follow another path?

 

[justbyfaith]

How many times does Jesus say "only" in John 17:3? By my count, it's one time, and no more.

Which one of these two things does Jesus say in referring to/addressing His Father, and which one of them does He not say?

1. "Thee the only true God"
2. "Thee the only person who is the only true God"

I've already asked you this question several times, and so far, you've refused to answer it. Why is that?

If there is only one true God, it follows that there is only one Person who is the true God.

What do you think "one" means, anyway? What do you think "only" means?

@justbyfaith: <NO ANSWER, STILL>

@justbyfaith: <NO ANSWER, STILL>

I have answered your questions.

False. You've answered neither of them. What you've done instead of answering those questions is to try to hand me more of your word salad while telling me falsely that you've thereby answered them. Until you have said to me simply either "Yes [the Father is the Son]," or "No [the Father is not the Son]," and either "Yes [the Son is the Father]," or "No [the Son is not the Father]," you will continue in your present failure to have answered those questions.

I have answered your questions. No, the Father is not the Son (in that the Father is not in flesh except in the Person of the Son). Yes, the Son is the Father (in that He is the same Spirit as the Father).

You act like the statements in bold weren't included in my answer to you.

By your word, "definition", you are referring to your extra-Biblical assumption/imposition of unitarianism.

You ignored my statement of the truth that:

A "Lord" by definition, is a singular Person.

I do not get my definition based on a unitarian paradigm. I am a Trinitarian.

A "Lord" is a Master; and if I have one Lord, I do not have two people bossing me around.

Because, as you and I both know, you have no answer against it. And now, you'll do the same regarding my statement of the truth that the Bible assigns no lower nor upper limit to the number of persons a lord can be.

There is "only" one true God (John 17:3).

The fact that you cannot see how this means that there is one God (as I define it here in my mind), escapes me.

You have been brainwashed by something or someone.

 

[justbyfaith]

Well I have the Spirit of Christ in me.

Sometimes, what we may think about something isn't necessarily the reality.

We may think it because we want to think it; though it be untrue; because it is a comforting thought to have and we don't want to depart from that false comfort.

 

[justbyfaith]

I have been studying this since I went on line twenty-three years ago in 2000.

Things to know:
In Judaism God is given a proper name to emphasise the personal nature of God. The tetragrammaton (written YHWH) was originally the name of an Edomite or Midianite deity called Yahweh. When the word "LORD" is in all capitals it signifies that the word represents the tetragrammaton Yahweh. Yahweh or “LORD” in this case is a false deity.

The JW's do not know what they worship.

Yahweh - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

~~~~~~~~~~

1Ch 29:20-21
20 David then said to the people, "Now it's your turn to praise the LORD, the God your ancestors worshiped!" So everyone praised the LORD, and they bowed down to honor him and David their king.
21 The next day, the Israelites slaughtered a thousand bulls, a thousand rams, and a thousand lambs, and they offered them as sacrifices to please the LORD, along with offerings of wine.

Pagan worship.

~~~~~~~~~

Exo 32:5 And when Aaron saw the calf, he built an altar before it
Exo 32:5 And when Aaron saw the calf, he built an altar before it. And Aaron made a proclamation and said, "Tomorrow is a feast to the LORD."
Exo 32:6 And they rose up early on the next morning, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings. And the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.
Exo 32:7 And the LORD said to Moses, "Go! Get you down, for your people, whom you brought out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves.

Yahweh is LORD and the Golden Calf is LORD.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now we come to the true Lord or God.
Jesus is “Yeshua” Lord.

Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

JESUS IS GOD
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I would contend that YHWH is the one true God (the Father) and that Jesus is YHWH come in flesh.

Case in point:

Isa 44:24, Thus saith the LORD (YHWH), thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD (YHWH) that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

 

[Paul E. Michael]

How many times does Jesus say "only" in John 17:3? By my count, it's one time, and no more.

Which one of these two things does Jesus say in referring to/addressing His Father, and which one of them does He not say?

1. "Thee the only true God"
2. "Thee the only person who is the only true God"

justbyfaith: <NO ANSWER, STILL>

I, for one, have no trouble answering this question: Jesus says #1, and He does not say #2. So, why can't you answer this question, justbyfaith? Why can't you say either, "Jesus says #1, and He does not say #2" or "Jesus says #2, and He does not say #1"? I had even tried to make it easier for you by putting the words Jesus says in red letters, just as Jesus's words are put in red letters in Bibles. Yet, you still can't answer the question. Why is that, justbyfaith?

---

If there is only one true God, it follows that there is only one Person who is the true God.

What (if anything) do you mean by your extra-Biblical phrase, "there is only one true God"?

---

• Is the Father the Son? Yes or No?

No, the Father is not the Son

True.

• Is the Son the Father? Yes or No?

Yes, the Son is the Father

False.

The self-contradictory stupidity you've handed us here is: "The Father IS NOT the Son IS the Father IS NOT the Son IS the Father IS NOT...."

By saying "Yes, the Son is the Father," whether you like to admit it or not, you are indicating that you use your two terms, "the Son" and "the Father" synonymously to denote one and the same subject. So, here is what you have just handed us:

• "Yes, the Son is [the Son]"
• "Yes, [the Father] is the Father"
• "No, the Father is not [the Father]"
• "No, [the Son] is not the Son"

It makes no difference that you have not written the words, "No, the Father is not the Father" and "No, the Son is not the Son", verbatim.

---

A "Lord" by definition, is a singular Person.

I do not get my definition based on a unitarian paradigm.

Repeating yourself again, eh? All right, then, again I say: What you are referring to by your phrase, "my definition", is your extra-Biblical assumption of unitarianism.

A "Lord" is a Master; and if I have one Lord, I do not have two people bossing me around.

You do if your Lord is a two (or more)-person Lord bossing you around.

And, as I said, you have ignored my statement of the truth that the Bible assigns no lower nor upper limit to the number of persons a lord can be, just as you have ignored my statement of the truth that the Bible assigns no lower nor upper limit to the number of persons a god can be.

 

[Randy]

Sometimes, what we may think about something isn't necessarily the reality.

We may think it because we want to think it; though it be untrue; because it is a comforting thought to have and we don't want to depart from that false comfort.

Ditto
This is not something that can mistaken
The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.

I know my Lord. He is not the Father. You may want to examine yourself.

 

[justbyfaith]

@justbyfaith: <NO ANSWER, STILL>

I, for one, have no trouble answering this question: Jesus says #1, and He does not say #2. So, why can't you answer this question, @justbyfaith? Why can't you say either, "Jesus says #1, and He does not say #2" or "Jesus says #2, and He does not say #1"? I had even tried to make it easier for you by putting the words Jesus says in red letters, just as Jesus's words are put in red letters in Bibles. Yet, you still can't answer the question. Why is that, @justbyfaith?

Jesus says both #1 and this means that He also affirms #2, from my perspective.

I didn't answer it before because I didn't think you were asking me.

What (if anything) do you mean by your extra-Biblical phrase, "there is only one true God"?

That is not an extra-biblical phrase. It is very much inherent in John 17:3.

False.

The self-contradictory stupidity you've handed us here is: "The Father IS NOT the Son IS the Father IS NOT the Son IS the Father IS NOT...."

By saying "Yes, the Son is the Father," whether you like to admit it or not, you are indicating that you use your two terms, "the Son" and "the Father" synonymously to denote one and the same subject. So, here is what you have just handed us:

• "Yes, the Son is [the Son]"
• "Yes, [the Father] is the Father"
• "No, the Father is not [the Father]"
• "No, [the Son] is not the Son"

It makes no difference that you have not written the words, "No, the Father is not the Father" and "No, the Son is not the Son", verbatim.

I'm sorry that you are not intelligent enough to understand what I am saying about this.

I have made my case and I think that it is logical.

But I am not going to keep repeating myself just so I can get it into your thick head.

You do if your Lord is a two (or more)-person Lord bossing you around.

And God is in fact a three-Person Lord.

However, He is also one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:24); and in that sense, one Person.

 

[Paul E. Michael]

If there is only one true God, it follows that there is only one Person who is the true God.

What do you think "one" means, anyway? What do you think "only" means?

I don't understand your "question". Are you asking me what I think Jesus means by the word, "one", in John 17:3? Well, seeing as Jesus does not say the word, "one", in John 17:3, I don't think He means anything by the word, "one", in John 17:3. Do you see Jesus saying the word, "one", in John 17:3?

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
​

I see Jesus saying 21 words, there, and not one of them is the word, "one". Am I mistaken about that?

 

[justbyfaith]

Ditto
This is not something that can mistaken
The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.

I know my Lord. He is not the Father. You may want to examine yourself.

If you do not believe that Jesus is the great I AM (i.e. God the Father), you will die in your sins (John 8:24).

I examine myself all of the time.

But you should consider that if a spirit is testifying to you that you are a child of God when you deny the true Deity of Jesus Christ, that it may in fact be a deceiving spirit.

 

[justbyfaith]

I don't understand your "question". Are you asking me what I think Jesus means by the word, "one", in John 17:3? Well, seeing as Jesus does not say the word, "one", in John 17:3, I don't think He means anything by the word, "one", in John 17:3. Do you see Jesus saying the word, "one", in John 17:3?

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
​

I see Jesus saying 21 words, there, and not one of them is the word, "one". Am I mistaken about that?

That God is the "only" true God indicates that there is "one" true God.

Now, are you going to continue to try to be difficult or are we going to have a real discussion?

 

[Paul E. Michael]

Jesus says both #1 and this means that He also affirms #2, from my perspective.

IOW, according to you, Jesus is saying something He doesn't mean, while meaning something He is not saying.

What you term "my perspective" is your extra-Biblical assumption of unitarianism.

---

God is in fact a three-Person Lord.

VS​

A "Lord" by definition, is a singular Person.

What you've handed us, there, is this silliness: "God is in fact a three-Person [singular Person]".

 

[Paul E. Michael]

That God is the only true God indicates that there is "one" true God.

And it does not indicate that only one person is the only true God.

 

[justbyfaith]

IOW, according to you, Jesus is saying something He doesn't mean, while meaning something He is not saying.

What you term "my perspective" is your extra-Biblical assumption of unitarianism.

I do not have an assumption of unitarianism. I am a Trinitarian.

I do emphasize His Oneness in order to combat the heresy of tritheism. Mormons seem to be lurking everywhere.

What you've handed us, there, is this silliness: "God is in fact a three-Person [singular Person]".

Exactly. Except to God, it is not silliness. I would point out that the foolishness of God is wiser than men according to scripture (1 Corinthians 1:25). And I have also shown the plausibility of my position. If you look at the details, you will see how it can all be.

And it does not indicate that only one person is the only true God.

Actually, it does (in the sense that God is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:24) and therefore one Person).

 

[Randy]

If you do not believe that Jesus is the great I AM (i.e. God the Father), you will die in your sins (John 8:24).

I examine myself all of the time.

But you should consider that if a spirit is testifying to you that you are a child of God when you deny the true Deity of Jesus Christ, that it may in fact be a deceiving spirit.

He is NOT His Father. He is the only WAY to His Father. I am not deceived.

 

[Randy]

If you do not believe that Jesus is the great I AM (i.e. God the Father), you will die in your sins (John 8:24).

I examine myself all of the time.

But you should consider that if a spirit is testifying to you that you are a child of God when you deny the true Deity of Jesus Christ, that it may in fact be a deceiving spirit.

Don't you believe Jesus stated the Father is the only true God? John 17:3

 

[Free]

One well known verse is John1:1. Coldwell said regarding the translation of John 1:1 is that, "the absence of the article does not make the predicate indefinite or qualitative when it precedes the verb, it is indefinite in this position only when the context demands it."
So whether the predicate(theos) is definite, indefinite, or qualitative depends on the context. Consequently, this raises the concern that uncertainty with respect to the grammer may result translations based on the theology of the translator. The commonly held theology that Jesus is God naturally leads to a corresponding translation. But theology in which Jesus is subordinate to God leads to the conclusion that he is a god or divine is the proper rendering.

This is why we have translations that differ on John 1:1 from those translation that believe Jesus to be God, like, The New Testament in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome's New Translation: With a Corrected Text 1808: "and the word was a god."

The Emphatic Diaglott, interlinear reading by Benjamin Wilson
1864: "and a god was the word."

La Bible du Centenaire, L'Evangile selon Jean, by Maurice Goguel
1928: "and the Word was a divine being."

The Bible An American Translation, by J.M.P. Smith and E.J. Goodspeed 1935: "and the Word was divine."

Das Neue Testament, by Ludwig Thimme
1946: "and of a divine kind was the Word."

And these were just a few translations that show for centuries John1:1 has been debated upon, about how it should be translated.

I would agree that context determines the meaning. In this case, since there is only one God, as is repeated throughout the Bible, "a god" can immediately be ruled out. It's a qualitative statement--"the Word was divine." However, since there is only one divine being, God, "the Word was God" is a perfectly fine translation.

 

[Free]

The diagram is based on the mormon concept of deity, period.

Not at all. Notice that in the center there is one God. The diagram is monotheistic, not polytheistic.

 

[Paul E. Michael]

I do not have an assumption of unitarianism.

False, still.

I am a Trinitarian.

False, still.

---

Except to God, it is not silliness.

Remember, I do not consider you to be God, and I do not consider you to be a spokesman for God. And no rationally-thinking person is going to take you seriously so long as you continue resorting to your accustomed spectacle of trying to sanctify your anti-intellectual, heretical ravings by blasphemously calling them "the foolishness of God". Your foolishness (which you've shamelessly put on display, with your dishonesty, throughout this thread) is the foolishness of justbyfaith, alone. Think about how easily your opponent could use that same, banal ploy against you, just as you use it on your opponent; I could just turn those verses right back against you, since you say to me:

I have the advantage of being on the side of truth and logic, whereas you have the disadvantage of being committed to your war against truth and logic.

See, in reaction to that, I could just throw your own, laughable ploy right back against you by saying things like "I would point out that the foolishness of God is wiser than men according to scripture (1 Corinthians 1:25). And I have also shown the plausibility of my position. If you look at the details, you will see how it can all be." Think of how little regard you would have for such a ploy, were I to use it against you, and you will understand how ridiculous you appear using it to attack me.

---

I do emphasize His Oneness

To what (if anything) are you referring by your phrase, "His Oneness"?

God is one Spirit

What (if anything) do you mean by that?

---

Actually, it does

False. And you've already contradicted your assertion of the falsehood that only one person is the only true God by out of the other side of your mouth asserting the truth that three persons are the only true God, as you do here:

God is three distinct Persons.

Out of one side of your mouth, you admit that the only true God is three Persons, whereas out of the other side of your mouth you contradict that truth by saying the only true God is not three Persons. You are addicted to contradicting yourself in public; which means you're addicted to being not taken seriously by rationally-thinking people. And your continued blaspheming of God by trying to dignify your self-contradictions by calling them "the foolishness of God" only exacerbates your wretched appearance.

 

[Paul E. Michael]

God is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:24) and therefore one Person

Here, you're trying to hand me another non sequitur, motivated yet again by your unitarian assumption. It does not follow from 'X is one spirit' that 'Only one person is X'. Your "therefore" is bogus.

 

[Cooper]

I would contend that YHWH is the one true God (the Father) and that Jesus is YHWH come in flesh.

Case in point:

Isa 44:24, Thus saith the LORD (YHWH), thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD (YHWH) that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Yes, that is correct, but don't forget, they called Baal 'Lord,' the same as they called the Golden Calf Lord and other idols also. Isaiah had the truth, and he knew the redeemer, the true God. Isaiah was a great man and a prophet indeed.
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