Three person God identified in the Bible?

[GodsGrace]

Whenever the LORD spoke out of the mouth of prophets, or whenever the LORD appeared to Abraham, or the Angel of the LORD appeared to Moses or the LORD breathed the breath of life into Adam....

It was the Son; YHWH the LORD God.

No one before the cross has seen the Father.





JLB

I agree that when God was seen, it was Jesus that was being seen.
The Angel of the Lord also is Jesus.

But I'm hard pressed to believe that the burning bush was Jesus....
Since Moses couldn't look at it (or see Who was in it) I do tend to believe it was God Father.
I've looked into a few commentaries since posting to you and they agree with you.
When I hear something new, it takes me time to come to believe what is correct.

 

[GodsGrace]

There is no contradiction. The Bible speaks of the indwelling of the Trinity, and of the Trinity and dealings with humans, with nuances that we must recognize.

Joh 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you. (ESV)

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. (ESV)

For example, while it was the Son, the second "person" of the Trinity that took on human flesh, yet, the Father was in him and he in the Father, while he was also filled with the Holy Spirit (Luk 4:1). Similarly, while the Holy Spirit is the primary one that indwells believers, the union of the three persons is such that the Father and Son also indwell believers.

This kind of goes back to Fastfredy0's earlier post: https://christianforums.net/threads...tified-in-the-bible.2858/page-51#post-1763375

If one Person is dwelling in us, then They all are.
God is not split up.
And yet, each Person has their own distinctions,,,but all are One.

jaybo, just to say that the Trinity is truly a difficult doctrine.
But Free does explain it really well.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Technically, God is omnipresent so He is in (dwells) everyone... but I think 'dwells' means He is in us to benefit as opposed to He is present.

So, if you are looking for the word "dwell" in verses addressing the Father and Son dwelling in us I only know of:
"Christ's dwelling in our hearts by faith," Ephesians 3:16-17

I don't know of any verse specifically using the term "dwell" and "Father" where the Father dwells in us.
Technically, since the Father and Son are one then if the Son dwells in us so must the Father.

 

[Fastfredy0]

The Angel of the Lord also is Jesus.

I use to think that but ...
if you define Jesus as the Son of God and the son of man, then Jesus as the son of man didn't exist at the sightings of The Angel of the Lord and therefore I would take issue with that statement. I agree that "The Angel of the Lord" was probably "the Son of God".

Aside: I know of no biblical proof "The Angel of the Lord" was a particular member of the Trinity. If someone has a verse, I would be interested in what it is. Thanks

Aside2: You didn't vote on the thread... my side is 1 vote short of a tie ... vote now!

 

[Cooper]

There is no contradiction. The Bible speaks of the indwelling of the Trinity, and of the Trinity and dealings with humans, with nuances that we must recognize.

Joh 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you. (ESV)

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. (ESV)

For example, while it was the Son, the second "person" of the Trinity that took on human flesh, yet, the Father was in him and he in the Father, while he was also filled with the Holy Spirit (Luk 4:1). Similarly, while the Holy Spirit is the primary one that indwells believers, the union of the three persons is such that the Father and Son also indwell believers.

This kind of goes back to Fastfredy0's earlier post: https://christianforums.net/threads...tified-in-the-bible.2858/page-51#post-1763375

You seem to be saying, the Father is Spirit, correct, the Holy Spirit is obviously Spirit, and the Father who is Spirit is in Jesus, which he is.

So... Jesus in whom dwells the Holy Spirit, is God manifest in the flesh.

That aligns with 1 Timothy 3:16 the top line of my signature.

Is that what you are saying?
.

 

[jaybo]

There is no contradiction. The Bible speaks of the indwelling of the Trinity, and of the Trinity and dealings with humans, with nuances that we must recognize.

Joh 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you. (ESV)

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. (ESV)

For example, while it was the Son, the second "person" of the Trinity that took on human flesh, yet, the Father was in him and he in the Father, while he was also filled with the Holy Spirit (Luk 4:1). Similarly, while the Holy Spirit is the primary one that indwells believers, the union of the three persons is such that the Father and Son also indwell believers.

This kind of goes back to Fastfredy0's earlier post: https://christianforums.net/threads...tified-in-the-bible.2858/page-51#post-1763375

John 14:18-26, “I will not leave you orphaned; I am coming to you. In a little while the world will no longer see me, but you will see me; because I live, you also will live. On that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. They who have my commandments and keep them are those who love me, and those who love me will be loved by my Father, and I will love them and reveal myself to them.” Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will reveal yourself to us and not to the world?” 23 Jesus answered him, “Those who love me will keep my word, and my Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Whoever does not love me does not keep my words, and the word that you hear is not mine but is from the Father who sent me. “I have said these things to you while I am still with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and remind you of all that I have said to you."

So a) Jesus is coming to the believers, b) Jesus is in the Father, c) the believers are in Jesus, d) Jesus is in the believers, e) believers will keep Jesus' word, f) God will love them, g) God and Jesus will come to them and make their home with them, h) Jesus' words are not His but are from the Father who sent Him, g) in the next sentence, Jesus said that He said those things, h) the Father will send the Holy Spirit in Jesus' name, i) the Holy Spirit will remind the believers of what He (Jesus) said to them.

One could easily interpret this as the Father is coming to the believers, but they are already in Jesus! And the Father is in them also! So, why do they have to come to the believers if they are already in them? And why does God have to send the Holy Spirit if God and Jesus are already in them? And why do they have to be reminded if the Father and Son are already in them?

There are indeed three persons, but they are defined interchangeably. It is clear that the Godhead is composed of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Parsing Scripture to try to prove exactly who the three persons are and how they interact with humanity, particularly believers, is an impossible task.

That is why this thread has over 1,500 posts and will undoubtedly continue on and on and on, with no resolution. The trinity cannot be explained using logic. It is understood by faith alone.

 

[jaybo]

If one Person is dwelling in us, then They all are.
God is not split up.
And yet, each Person has their own distinctions,,,but all are One.

jaybo, just to say that the Trinity is truly a difficult doctrine.
But Free does explain it really well.

I don't think that Free explains the Trinity well at all. I prefer Cooper's explanation.

 

[GodsGrace]

I use to think that but ...
if you define Jesus as the Son of God and the son of man, then Jesus as the son of man didn't exist at the sightings of The Angel of the Lord and therefore I would take issue with that statement. I agree that "The Angel of the Lord" was probably "the Son of God".

Aside: I know of no biblical proof "The Angel of the Lord" was a particular member of the Trinity. If someone has a verse, I would be interested in what it is. Thanks

Aside2: You didn't vote on the thread... my side is 1 vote short of a tie ... vote now!

Didn't know we could vote.
Just looked. I'm not sure if I agree with no. 1 or no. 3.
I'm sure you know that the Trinity took some time to develop.
I guess I would vote IMPLIED.

I've been through this too regarding the Angel of the LORD.
JLB made a good point, as he usually does...
it's not AN angel of the LORD...
It's THE angel of THE LORD.

Angel meant messenger in the OT.
At least one of the 3 "men" that visited Abraham in Genesis 18 was referred to as LORD.
LORD in caps means God Father to me (this is what I was taught) but God Father has never been seen by man,
so it must be God's Word --- the Son, the 2nd Person of the Trinity.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't think that Free explains the Trinity well at all. I prefer Cooper's explanation.

Sometimes I agree with him and sometimes I'm not sure what he means.
I'm always sure of what Free means.

 

[Free]

You seem to be saying, the Father is Spirit, the Holy Spirit is obviously Spirit, and the Father who is Spirit is in Jesus, which he is.

So... Jesus in whom dwells the Holy Spirit, is God manifest in the flesh.

That aligns with Timothy 3;16 which is the top line of my signature.

Is that what you are saying?
.

What I am saying has nothing to do with 1 Tim 3:16, but perhaps it does with 2 Tim 3:16 (and 17). Of course I'm saying the Father is Spirit and is in Jesus, along with the Holy Spirit. This is all clearly stated in the gospels. Jesus, being the second person of the Trinity, is the one who took on human flesh, and so is "God manifest in the flesh."

 

[Fastfredy0]

it's not AN angel of the LORD...
It's THE angel of THE LORD.

agreed

God Father has never been seen by man,
so it must be God's Word --- the Son, the 2nd Person of the Trinity.

Well, all three members of the Trinity can do the same stuff
...and one might argue if one is doing something then all 3 are doing it .. but putting that aside ..
... I think it is just tradition that says The Angel of the Lord is always the 2nd person ... hey, if I had to guess one of the 3 persons I go with the 2nd person... but I think we're just guessing ... looking for a scripture verse but I doubt there is one.

 

[Free]

John 14:18-26, “I will not leave you orphaned; I am coming to you. In a little while the world will no longer see me, but you will see me; because I live, you also will live. On that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. They who have my commandments and keep them are those who love me, and those who love me will be loved by my Father, and I will love them and reveal myself to them.” Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will reveal yourself to us and not to the world?” 23 Jesus answered him, “Those who love me will keep my word, and my Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Whoever does not love me does not keep my words, and the word that you hear is not mine but is from the Father who sent me. “I have said these things to you while I am still with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and remind you of all that I have said to you."

So a) Jesus is coming to the believers, b) Jesus is in the Father, c) the believers are in Jesus, d) Jesus is in the believers, e) believers will keep Jesus' word, f) God will love them, g) God and Jesus will come to them and make their home with them, h) Jesus' words are not His but are from the Father who sent Him, g) in the next sentence, Jesus said that He said those things, h) the Father will send the Holy Spirit in Jesus' name, i) the Holy Spirit will remind the believers of what He (Jesus) said to them.

One could easily interpret this as the Father is coming to the believers, but they are already in Jesus! And the Father is in them also! So, why do they have to come to the believers if they are already in them? And why does God have to send the Holy Spirit if God and Jesus are already in them? And why do they have to be reminded if the Father and Son are already in them?

Because that is what the Bible says. Each person has different primary roles in the salvation of humans and redemption of creation.

There are indeed three persons, but they are defined interchangeably.

There are finer nuances that shouldn't be overlooked.

It is clear that the Godhead is composed of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Parsing Scripture to try to prove exactly who the three persons are and how they interact with humanity, particularly believers, is an impossible task.

Not entirely. There are differences stated.

That is why this thread has over 1,500 posts and will undoubtedly continue on and on and on, with no resolution.

So what? Just don't bother with this thread then. There are plenty of others you can read and post in.

The trinity cannot be explained using logic.

It certainly can to a point. Otherwise everything God says is unknowable.

It is understood by faith alone.

No, it isn't. God has revealed himself to us using reasoning and human language, so that we can know some things about him. We just can't know these things completely or exhaustively.

I don't think that Free explains the Trinity well at all. I prefer Cooper's explanation.

Except that Cooper can't explain the Trinity at all and doesn't believe in the Trinity. Just go back and look at his comments on the diagram that explains the Trinity.

 

[Cooper]

What I am saying has nothing to do with 1 Tim 3:16, but perhaps it does with 2 Tim 3:16 (and 17). Of course I'm saying the Father is Spirit and is in Jesus, along with the Holy Spirit. This is all clearly stated in the gospels. Jesus, being the second person of the Trinity, is the one who took on human flesh, and so is "God manifest in the flesh."

That seems correct. So just to get it straight, God is Spirit, and Jesus is God manifest on earth.
.

 

[JLB]

I agree that when God was seen, it was Jesus that was being seen.
The Angel of the Lord also is Jesus

Amen.

 

[JLB]

Angel meant messenger in the OT.

What does a messenger bring?

 

[GodsGrace]

agreed


Well, all three members of the Trinity can do the same stuff
...and one might argue if one is doing something then all 3 are doing it .. but putting that aside ..
... I think it is just tradition that says The Angel of the Lord is always the 2nd person ... hey, if I had to guess one of the 3 persons I go with the 2nd person... but I think we're just guessing ... looking for a scripture verse but I doubt there is one.

Actually, I think that The Angel of The LORD is sometimes God Himself.
It's confusing.
When Moses sees the burning bush, it states that The Angel of The LORD came to Moses.
As if to give Moses a message from God.
But then the bush speaks to Moses and it certainly seems to me that it is God Father, Yahweh, speaking to Moses and not the 2nd Person.

Revelation came slowly to mankind. Perhaps the writers in the OT made some mistakes as everything had to be hand-written and notes were made that might have been picked up as scripture and other mistakes. (this happened for sure in the NT).

I don't dwell too much on what is not certain.

 

[JLB]

But I'm hard pressed to believe that the burning bush was Jesus....
Since Moses couldn't look at it (or see Who was in it) I do tend to believe it was God Father.

And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed.
Exodus 3:2

 

[GodsGrace]

What does a messenger bring?

A message from God.

 

[Free]

That seems correct. So just to get it straight, God is Spirit, and Jesus is God manifest on earth.
.

Of course, that is what the doctrine of the Trinity affirms. There have always been three coequal, co-eternal, consubstantial, divine persons. It is the second person of the Trinity, the Word, the pre-incarnate Son, that was God manifest on earth by virtue of his having become flesh. So, to be clear, Jesus is not the Father--never was and obviously never will be.

 

[JLB]

A message from God.

Yes maam.

A word (message) from God.

The Angel of the LORD would then be The Word...

What else are angels?