Three person God identified in the Bible?

[Annagrace]

And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Jesus is the same God who has been worshiped throughout the entire Old Testament, and He took on flesh to live among and redeem His people.

 

[Randy]

So are you insinuating that Jesus is a liar since, as you said, “He claimed to be God, the same God as the Father”? If He claimed to be God, the same God as the Father (and I would agree with you that He did), then that can only leave us to conclude one thing - That He was, in fact, the one and only God, the Alpha and Omega, beginning and the end, just as He claimed to be.

Just in case you don't value the words of the Son lets involve His Fathers testimony.

And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

 

[Randy]

Jesus is the same God who has been worshiped throughout the entire Old Testament, and He took on flesh to live among and redeem His people.

That was the only begotten Son who became flesh who was in His Fathers presence and came down as a witness.
John 1:18

 

[Annagrace]

That was the only begotten Son who became flesh who was in His Fathers presence and came down as a witness.

Hear, O Israel: The Lord Our God, the Lord is One” (Deut 6:4)

“Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.”Mark 12:29
^ Jesus said this in response to someone who asked what the greatest commandment was.

 

[Randy]

Hear, O Israel: The Lord Our God, the Lord is One” (Deut 6:4)

“Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.”Mark 12:29
^ Jesus said this in response to someone who asked what the greatest commandment was.

The eternal life found in the Son is the Father. Col 1:19 // John 6:57
The Spirit of God is the Fathers Spirit. The Fathers promise Acts 2:17 // Acts 2:33



I only believe in one God. I also believe in one Lord they are one.

The only begotten Son became flesh
Hebrews 10
5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, my God.’ ”

 

[Free]

So are you insinuating that Jesus is a liar since, as you said, “He claimed to be God, the same God as the Father”?

Of course he isn't a liar. He claimed to be the one God but he also strongly implied that he wasn't the Father.

If He claimed to be God, the same God as the Father (and I would agree with you that He did), then that can only leave us to conclude one thing - That He was, in fact, the one and only God, the Alpha and Omega, beginning and the end, just as He claimed to be.

Yes, Jesus claimed to be the one true God, the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, there is no disagreement there. But, it is begging the question to begin with the premise that God is only the Father, a single person.

Hear, O Israel: The Lord Our God, the Lord is One” (Deut 6:4)

“Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.”Mark 12:29
^ Jesus said this in response to someone who asked what the greatest commandment was.

Several times in this and the Oneness thread, I have given the definition of the Hebrew word used for "one" in Deut 6:4. It is 'echad and it is the equivalent of the English word "one." It can refer to the concept of a compound unity--one bunch of grapes; "and they shall become one flesh" (Gen 2:24)--but not necessarily. What it never refers to is an absolute unity, that God is only one person, that is what yachid means, and yachid is never used of God in the Bible. Ever.

What that means is, not only is there no verse in the entire Bible that clearly or directly states God is an absolute unity, the use of 'echad in the OT and its equivalent, heis, in the NT, leave open the possibility that God is a compound unity, that there is a plurality within the one God.

And, indeed, we see that there is a plurality within the one God in Gen 1:26-27, a few other passages in the OT, and many in the NT.

 

[for_his_glory]

And, yet, the Jews "picked up stones to throw at him." Why would they do this if it wasn't a claim to be the I Am? It would seem that a more appropriate response would have been to laugh and tell Jesus he wasn't playing with a full deck. That wouldn't have been something deserving of stoning, but claiming to be the I Am was blasphemy.

Look at what Jesus had also just said to these same Jews:

Joh 8:23 And He was saying to them, "You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world.
Joh 8:24 "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." (NASB)

It's also worth noting Jesus's arrest:

Joh 18:4 So Jesus, knowing all the things that were coming upon Him, went forth and *said to them, "Whom do you seek?"
Joh 18:5 They answered Him, "Jesus the Nazarene." He *said to them, "I am He." And Judas also, who was betraying Him, was standing with them.
Joh 18:6 So when He said to them, "I am He," they drew back and fell to the ground. (NASB)

As you probably know, "He" is italicized in the NASB, as it should be in all translations, because it doesn't appear in the Greek. I think it is no little thing that "they drew back and fell to the ground" when Jesus said "I am." As with the Jews previously picking up stones to stone him, the response here makes no sense if he merely was saying, "Here I am" or "That is me."

Those claims, along with 8:58, are in complete agreement with John 1:1-2 and several other passages, which speak of the pre-existent Son being with the Father before any creation (John 17:5, 24, for ex.), that is, before time and space existed. From that, there is only one logical conclusion--Jesus is fully and truly God, just as the Father is, but he isn't the Father. We agree that Jesus isn't the Father, as that goes against everything in the NT. However, Jesus was certainly claiming to be God, the same God as the Father.

Free I would also like to add:

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

It should be clear that Jesus is a distinct Person from the Father in our theology; being the same Spirit as the Father; albeit He is embodied in human flesh.

 

[justbyfaith]

Jhn 8:59, Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Jhn 10:31, Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Jhn 10:32, Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Jhn 10:33, The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

 

[justbyfaith]

We agree that Jesus isn't the Father, as that goes against everything in the NT.

Such as?

 

[justbyfaith]

Rom 4:24, But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Rom 4:25, Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Here, we find that we are to believe on "him" who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Who is this speaking of?

Gal 1:1, Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

Clearly, God the Father raised Jesus from the dead; and is therefore "him" who raised Jesus from the dead.

However, this is a problem for your strict trinitarian;

Because "him" who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, also "was delivered for our offences, and was raised for our justification".

It gives credence to the concept of Patripassianism; that the Father died on the Cross for our sins.

Which would not be true unless Jesus is "the Father come in human flesh".

 

[justbyfaith]

Free I would also like to add:

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

However, "The everlasting Father" does not mean God here, in your theologies.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Rom 4:24, But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Rom 4:25, Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Here, we find that we are to believe on "him" who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Who is this speaking of?

Gal 1:1, Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

Clearly, God the Father raised Jesus from the dead; and is therefore "him" who raised Jesus from the dead.

However, this is a problem for your strict trinitarian;

Because "him" who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, also "was delivered for our offences, and was raised for our justification".

It gives credence to the concept of Patripassianism; that the Father died on the Cross for our sins.

Which would not be true unless Jesus is "the Father come in human flesh".

Hello justbyfaith.
The real problem here is that if our Lord proclaimed himself God, it would have been judgement day then.

It was thought by the Jewish people (and still is in Judaism), that when the Messiah came, he would defeat the Jews enemies, gather all Jews back to the Middle East and bring peace to everone on earth.

The Jews who followed Jesus taught that he defeated the enemy of all mankind, which is death. He's gathering his people (Jewish and gentile believers alike) into his Kingdom. He gives peace that passes human understanding to believers, not the entire world.

The Bible also shows us that our Lord possessed eternal life before he died.
He came to show us Gofs'love. He turned the other cheek in a way that was staggering.
The point is, if it wasn't for his previous promisses from the OT to reveal God to the gentiles, he could have easily swatted the heads off people who spit on him.

This is the gospel truth.

 

[Randy]

It should be clear that Jesus is a distinct Person from the Father in our theology; being the same Spirit as the Father; albeit He is embodied in human flesh.

He is the only begotten Son so yes He is His own person. With the Fathers fullness gifted. Col 1:19 In that manner a like to like offspring of the Father. God and Gods Son. But the eternal life found in Him is the Father.
Its clear to me others here believe He is the only unbegotten Son. I guess they have to hold to one Spirit too. Which to me doesn't qualify as a distinct person. So I see why you believe He is the Father
Also if the Father is the only unbegotten God or as Jesus states the only true God and John states Jesus is the only begotten Son how then is it stated the person of God the Spirit? I believe the Spirit is the Fathers very own Spirit and not a person. The Fathers Spirit would have the Fathers nature. The Spirit of God.

I am now to the point I don't what others believe.

 

[Randy]

Jhn 8:59, Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Jhn 10:31, Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Jhn 10:32, Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Jhn 10:33, The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Yes the works were from the Father. As they are ONE.
John 10
Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

John 14:10
Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

 

[Cooper]

He is the only begotten Son so yes He is His own person. With the Fathers fullness gifted. Col 1:19 In that manner a like to like offspring of the Father. God and Gods Son. But the eternal life found in Him is the Father.
Its clear to me others here believe He is the only unbegotten Son. I guess they have to hold to one Spirit too. Which to me doesn't qualify as a distinct person. So I see why you believe He is the Father
Also if the Father is the only unbegotten God or as Jesus states the only true God and John states Jesus is the only begotten Son how then is it stated the person of God the Spirit? I believe the Spirit is the Fathers very own Spirit and not a person. The Fathers Spirit would have the Fathers nature. The Spirit of God.

I am now to the point I don't what others believe.

Elton John isn't Reginald Dwight either.

Even though, what one does, the other does.

Mind you, according to Trinitarian's the Father is NOT the Son.

So you are in good company.
.

 

[Randy]

Elton John isn't Reginald Dwight either.

What one does, the other does.
.

Which one is the Son as offspring of the other?

 

[Free]

Mind you, according to Trinitarian's the Father is NOT the Son.

That's because it's biblical. The Father can never be, or have been, the Son and the Son can never be, or have been, the Father, by the very definition of that relationship, right? If we say that the Father became the Son, then that relationship doesn't make sense and communicates nothing to us about God. It would be pointless for God to have revealed himself as Father and Son if they are both the same person.

 

[Randy]

Elton John isn't Reginald Dwight either.

Even though, what one does, the other does.

Mind you, according to Trinitarian's the Father is NOT the Son.

So you are in good company.
.

john 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Jesus, the only begotten Son, who was in the Fathers presence, came down from heaven as the only such witness. This Sonship existed from the beginning and before the Son of Man. Father and Son.

I have come to the conclusion that John in 1John and Paul in Philippians suggest Logos is referring to Jesus as "The word of life"

Jesus- The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes the works were from the Father. As they are ONE.
John 10
Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

John 14:10
Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

The point is that Jesus, being a man, made Himself God (claimed to be God); and that this was their reason for attempting to stone Him.

So, since He was claiming to be God, do you believe that He was lying?

That's because it's biblical.

No, actually the idea that the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost is in all reality unbiblical; for it preaches three Gods rather than one (see James 2:19).

if they are both the same person.

Yes, they are the same Spirit (John 4:23-24, John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4) and therefore, in a sense, the same Person.

While I will never deny that there is a distinction between the three.