Three Persons - Holy Trinity

[cupid dave]

Originally Posted by cupid dave
But6 you read this and fail to see the Trinity inherent in the language where "god", "holy spirit" (in our mind), and "Truth" (as an Ideal )all come together to make sense.


Grappler:
read what?

John1:1

In the beginning was the Word, (i.e.; Truth: [John 14:6]), and the Word, (Truth, itself), was (synonymous) with God, (i.e.; Reality), and the Word, (Truth: [John 14:6]), was (indistinguishable from Reality), God, (the almighty for all men).

2 "He," (Truth, the symbolic Word to come: [Jud 1:3]) was with God, (i.e.; the ever unfolding Reality), in the beginning, (that is, the initial unfolding of material Reality in what was the actual physical Creation).

Jn 1:3 ALL (real) THINGS, (phenomenally, i.e.; mentally), came into existence, (for man), through him, (i.e.; this concept of Truth), and apart from him, (this ideal of Truth), not even ONE (real) thing came into (actual) existence (for men).

 

[cleanfreak]

urk--

You have used the phrase "God the Son" in several of your post.

Would you please be so kind as to provide scripture that references Jesus as "God the Son"?

 

[tim-from-pa]

This topic is confusing and I will post a little skit summarizing a person (say, someone named Joe) trying to understand the Trinity as explained by a Trinitarian. This is how it typically goes.....

Joe: So, there's these 3 guys walking up there around in heaven, Father, Son and Holy Ghost all are Gods?

Trinitarian: No! 3 personages, one God. Not 3 Gods, that's polytheism.

Joe: Oh, I get it! It's sort of like I'm a father to my kid, a son to my parents and husband to my wife. So, I'm really 3 but one, so at any one time I play one of those roles?

Trinitarian: Oh no! That's the heresy called modalism! There's 3 distinct persons, otherwise how could the Son pray to the Father?

Joe: But then that's 3 guys again!

Trinitarian: No! The 3 guys are one guy!

2 Joe: I really think I need to break for a cup of coffee!

View attachment 3138

 

[Adam]

That is spiritual and physical. He is a being, not just an "idea" or "impression," as you seem to assume.

Come on,...

Does Love have a body?
Is love a physical concrete material weighty object that people pass back and forth?


1 John 4:8
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Feeling and sensations and urges are also spiritual things inside us.
They are the very things we are to temper with a feeling of Love for others.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Seems simple doesn't it?


Now apply that to "Truth."

 

[Free]

You will notice that I said "personal," as in "relational," and you gave a definition of "person."

There is no such a concept that I can find which gives a meaning to this nonsense phrase "personal being."

Not only is it redundant to say that a person is a being, which is the definition of the word itself, but "personal" is an adjective which modifies the noun "being" in the phrase you invent to explain away the difference between body of Jesus and the spirit of Christ which resided inside his mind.


per·son·al
/ˈpərsənəl/

Adjective
Of, affecting, or belonging to a particular person rather than to anyone else.



Hence the meaning of "personal being" would amount to saying that the Holy Spirit was "a being belonging to a particular person rather than to anyone else."
This is basically agreeing with the idea that the mind was this being belonging to the body of Jesus, but not the body itself, and hence the mind.

I do not understand how you can not see this since the basis of Christianity is that God is spirit, and it is not physical but therefore mental.

Reread what I wrote.

 

[Free]

This topic is confusing and I will post a little skit summarizing a person (say, someone named Joe) trying to understand the Trinity as explained by a Trinitarian. This is how it typically goes.....

Joe: So, there's these 3 guys walking up there around in heaven, Father, Son and Holy Ghost all are Gods?

Trinitarian: No! 3 personages, one God. Not 3 Gods, that's polytheism.

Joe: Oh, I get it! It's sort of like I'm a father to my kid, a son to my parents and husband to my wife. So, I'm really 3 but one, so at any one time I play one of those roles?

Trinitarian: Oh no! That's the heresy called modalism! There's 3 distinct persons, otherwise how could the Son pray to the Father?

Joe: But then that's 3 guys again!

Trinitarian: No! The 3 guys are one guy!

2 Joe: I really think I need to break for a cup of coffee!

View attachment 4131

I hope you aren't making fun of the doctrine of the Trinity as such a skit could be thought up for any position on the matter.

 

[Free]

John1:1

In the beginning was the Word, (i.e.; Truth: [John 14:6]), and the Word, (Truth, itself), was (synonymous) with God, (i.e.; Reality), and the Word, (Truth: [John 14:6]), was (indistinguishable from Reality), God, (the almighty for all men).

2 "He," (Truth, the symbolic Word to come: [Jud 1:3]) was with God, (i.e.; the ever unfolding Reality), in the beginning, (that is, the initial unfolding of material Reality in what was the actual physical Creation).

Jn 1:3 ALL (real) THINGS, (phenomenally, i.e.; mentally), came into existence, (for man), through him, (i.e.; this concept of Truth), and apart from him, (this ideal of Truth), not even ONE (real) thing came into (actual) existence (for men).

Why do you insist on this largely erroneous understanding of this passage? I can't help but notice that you are selective as to what suits this understanding. Take your understanding of the Word being "truth itself." You base this on John 14:6 but that verse also says Jesus is "the way" and "the life." Why do you select only "the truth" and leave out the rest?

I strongly suggest you look up what the Greeks meant by the use of logos.

 

[Knotical]

This topic is confusing and I will post a little skit summarizing a person (say, someone named Joe) trying to understand the Trinity as explained by a Trinitarian. This is how it typically goes.....

Joe: So, there's these 3 guys walking up there around in heaven, Father, Son and Holy Ghost all are Gods?

Trinitarian: No! 3 personages, one God. Not 3 Gods, that's polytheism.

Joe: Oh, I get it! It's sort of like I'm a father to my kid, a son to my parents and husband to my wife. So, I'm really 3 but one, so at any one time I play one of those roles?

Trinitarian: Oh no! That's the heresy called modalism! There's 3 distinct persons, otherwise how could the Son pray to the Father?

Joe: But then that's 3 guys again!

Trinitarian: No! The 3 guys are one guy!

2 Joe: I really think I need to break for a cup of coffee!

View attachment 4131

There are some things that we were never meant to completely understand. This is just something we are to exercise faith with, and accept as true.

 

[Free]

That is spiritual and physical. He is a being, not just an "idea" or "impression," as you seem to assume.

Come on,...

Does Love have a body?
Is love a physical concrete material weighty object that people pass back and forth?


1 John 4:8
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Feeling and sensations and urges are also spiritual things inside us.
They are the very things we are to temper with a feeling of Love for others.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Is love not something that only exists between two or more creatures or beings, including persons? Is love not a feeling or action from one creature to another? If "God is love," as the Bible says, then that is a necessary quality of God and he must have "been love" from eternity past since he cannot not be love.

If that is the case, then there must have always been a subject and an object of that love; it demands that there be at least one "person" who is loving and at least one other "person" who is the recipient of that love.

Yet another reason why the doctrine of the Trinity best takes into account all that Scripture reveals about the nature of God.

 

[Guest]

urk--

You have used the phrase "God the Son" in several of your post.

Would you please be so kind as to provide scripture that references Jesus as "God the Son"?

Believing that Jesus is God (deity) you would have to believe and confess in your own heart that God raised him from dead. The transformation takes places through your mouth and through your heart. Have faith, blessings. Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

 

[Guest]

[MENTION=142]Free[/MENTION] has been speaking truth all throughout this thread. At least I'm paying attention.

 

[Guest]

Does Love have a body?
Is love a physical concrete material weighty object that people pass back and forth?

Love does have a body. Love also has a mind/spirit/soul, and his name is Jesus. What do you know about the resurrection of Jesus and accepting him into your heart?

 

[tim-from-pa]

Picking up on post 126, http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=51487&p=796267&viewfull=1#post796267

Joe meanwhile returns from his coffee break.

Trinitarian: You know, you really have to believe about the the Trinity. Your salvation may be at risk!

Joe: But you are saying 1=3 and 3=1, that makes no sense.

Trinitarian: It's a deep, deep mystery and nobody understands it, just believe it.

Joe: But you just said I have to believe it. If nobody understands it, how can I be sure I have it right?

Trinitarian: You just have to count the way God does. Now, let me tell you why Friday sundown until pre-dawn Sunday morning in the grave are 3 full days and 3 full nights, but other days of the week that's not true such as counting 5 scriptural days to Passover is Sunday until Friday, which is how we got our Palm Sunday.

Joe: I think I need to go to lunch break now.

:toofunny

 

[Deborah13]

John1:1

In the beginning was the Word, (i.e.; Truth: [John 14:6]), and the Word, (Truth, itself), was (synonymous) with God, (i.e.; Reality), and the Word, (Truth: [John 14:6]), was (indistinguishable from Reality), God, (the almighty for all men).

2 "He," (Truth, the symbolic Word to come: [Jud 1:3]) was with God, (i.e.; the ever unfolding Reality), in the beginning, (that is, the initial unfolding of material Reality in what was the actual physical Creation).

Jn 1:3 ALL (real) THINGS, (phenomenally, i.e.; mentally), came into existence, (for man), through him, (i.e.; this concept of Truth), and apart from him, (this ideal of Truth), not even ONE (real) thing came into (actual) existence (for men).

Your suppositions seem to be similar to "spirit psychology and spiritual consciousness". I noticed that you are in Santa Monica, CA. Are you familiar with the University of Santa Monica and their teachings in this area?

Could you explain your understanding of Jesus, who He is, what He did, and how does it relate to your salvation, if it does?

I have not shared my thoughts on this subject because I now can see that they would not be something relative in this conversation.
I would greatly appreciate it though if you would answer these two questions as it might move the conversation along.

 

[Free]

Picking up on post 126, http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=51487&p=796267&viewfull=1#post796267

Joe meanwhile returns from his coffee break.

Trinitarian: You know, you really have to believe about the the Trinity. Your salvation may be at risk!

Joe: But you are saying 1=3 and 3=1, that makes no sense.

Trinitarian: It's a deep, deep mystery and nobody understands it, just believe it.

Joe: But you just said I have to believe it. If nobody understands it, how can I be sure I have it right?

Trinitarian: You just have to count the way God does. Now, let me tell you why Friday sundown until pre-dawn Sunday morning in the grave are 3 full days and 3 full nights, but other days of the week that's not true such as counting 5 scriptural days to Passover is Sunday until Friday, which is how we got our Palm Sunday.

Joe: I think I need to go to lunch break now.

:toofunny

Is there a point to this?

 

[tim-from-pa]

Is there a point to this?

Yeah. It all sounds pretty stupid, doesn't it? Yet, that's the types of things we hear. I thought I was pretty funny actually. I should make one of those cartoons where the figures debate in a monotone and electronic voice.

 

[Free]

Is there a point to this?

Yeah. It all sounds pretty stupid, doesn't it? Yet, that's the types of things we hear. I thought I was pretty funny actually. I should make one of those cartoons where the figures debate in a monotone and electronic voice.

What sounds stupid? Are you saying the doctrine of the Trinity is stupid? What are you getting at? You must have a point to this.

 

[Guest]

Yeah. It all sounds pretty stupid, doesn't it? Yet, that's the types of things we hear. I thought I was pretty funny actually. I should make one of those cartoons where the figures debate in a monotone and electronic voice.

You won't be laughing when you haven't accepted Jesus into your heart because you think it's 'religion'..and finally meet Jesus face to face at the Great White Throne Judgment. Are you still laughing.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Just playing around with numbers, you know the math types like me. But the math I see being proclaimed is nonsense. My favorite theologian is Sir Isaac Newton and I believe pretty much the way he did. Check him out sometime. After all, anyone who invents calculus to solve his problems can't be all bad.

As for the GWT judgement, how do you know I, or others for that matter, won't be saved there if we are not saved now? I don't think you really have a say, Urk, or am I becoming to you what you thought you said you were to others at one time? It all doesn't bother me one bit. I'm having some fun. No hard feelings here.

 

[Free]

Just playing around with numbers, you know the math types like me. But the math I see being proclaimed is nonsense. My favorite theologian is Sir Isaac Newton and I believe pretty much the way he did. Check him out sometime. After all, anyone who invents calculus to solve his problems can't be all bad.

Please stop beating around the bush. What is it that you are saying about the doctrine of the Trinity? That is, after all, the topic of this thread, not math.