Under the Law - what does it mean?

[smaller]

Yes through the truth the mind is renewed unto the Image of Christ, Having died with Him to sin and sins power over the flesh "which is by the law" we become enslaved to true righteousness, and cannot sin.

Except for an Apostle said he was the 'chief of sinners' after salvation. So we must discount his statement of fact.

NEXT!

s

 

[JLB]

Yes through the truth the mind is renewed unto the Image of Christ, Having died with Him to sin and sins power over the flesh "which is by the law" we become enslaved to true righteousness, and cannot sin.

Except for an Apostle said he was the 'chief of sinners' after salvation. So we must discount his statement of fact.

NEXT!

s

was the 'chief of sinners' being the key phrase.


JLB

 

[George Muller]

Yes through the truth the mind is renewed unto the Image of Christ, Having died with Him to sin and sins power over the flesh "which is by the law" we become enslaved to true righteousness, and cannot sin.

Except for an Apostle said he was the 'chief of sinners' after salvation. So we must discount his statement of fact.

Well maybe you are only seeing that which God allows you to see? Its called a "mystery" just as John wrote "if we say we have no sin" He also wrote "we cannot sin". Like I said before, some of you should stop trying to teach and become students.

Heb 6:1 ¶ Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

JOHN ALSO EXPLAINS THAT SOME ARE CHILDREN AND CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE DEEPER THINGS? GOD DOES THIS TO PROTECT THEM.
BUT THE SCRIPTURE IS TRUE AND ONE CANNOT MAKE IT UNTRUE BY THEIR LIMITED UNDERSTANDING OF ANOTHER.


I will quote the scripture again, but I cannot make you believe it.

1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Now, this is part of the "mystery of godliness" it is written in clear and plain words for all to read. If one has not attained to this scripture? I suggest that they stop trying to teach others and become a student and learn how to live a Godly and sinless life.

 

[smaller]

'chief of sinners' after salvation.[/B] So we must discount his statement of fact.
Well maybe you are only seeing that which God allows you to see? Its called a "mystery"

I would certainly term it a mystery of how faith can be used to justify a lie. To me that is the opposite of truthful faith and the mystery of iniquity is what a lie is.

just as John wrote "if we say we have no sin" He also wrote "we cannot sin".

There are ways to understand that matter without lying about it. Landing on a delusion and dishonesty and calling it a mystery and faith is quite inane. OBVIOUSLY you are citing both FACTS. You're only engaging in 'expensing and dispensing' one fact to elimination in order to have only the other.

Like I said before, some of you should stop trying to teach and become students.

I'm actually quite a fan of honesty. Go figure.

s

 

[smaller]

was the 'chief of sinners' being the key phrase.

JLB

There is no 'was' in Paul's statement. You may think you see it, but it's not there.

Go read it again.

s

 

[George Muller]

'chief of sinners' after salvation.[/B] So we must discount his statement of fact.
Well maybe you are only seeing that which God allows you to see? Its called a "mystery"

I would certainly term it a mystery of how faith can be used to justify a lie. To me that is the opposite of truthful faith and the mystery of iniquity is what a lie is.

just as John wrote "if we say we have no sin" He also wrote "we cannot sin".

There are ways to understand that matter without lying about it. Landing on a delusion and dishonesty and calling it a mystery and faith is quite inane. OBVIOUSLY you are citing both FACTS. You're only engaging in 'expensing and dispensing' one fact to elimination in order to have only the other.

Like I said before, some of you should stop trying to teach and become students.

I'm actually quite a fan of honesty. Go figure.

s

Well is it a "fact" that you where "saved" Did you see it when Jesus forgave your sins? Or is it a "truth" based upon your faith in His word?
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal

Again you want to accept some portion of scripture by faith, and then reject that which you cannot understand? Like I said the scripture cannot be challenge in its point and TRUTH, whether you believe it or not does not change the "fact" that it is written in clear words.


I will quote the scripture again, but I cannot make you believe it.

1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[smaller]

Well is it a "fact" that you where "saved" Did you see it when Jesus forgave your sins? Or is it a "truth" based upon your faith in His word?

Using 'faith' to eliminate scripture or plain and open facts is not a valid methodology or exercise of faith.

We don't use faith to lie or deceive ourselves do we?

And why are you unable to address the fact that Paul said, "sinners, of whom I AM chief" as a post salvation fact compared to the slant you're trying to put out?

???

s

 

[George Muller]

And why are you unable to address the fact that Paul said, "sinners, of whom I AM chief" as a post salvation fact compared to the slant you're trying to put out?

I already did and I will post it again IF you did not see the point?

Well maybe you are only seeing that which God allows you to see? Its called a "mystery" just as John wrote "if we say we have no sin" He also wrote "we cannot sin". Like I said before, some of you should stop trying to teach and become students.

Heb 6:1 ¶ Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

JOHN ALSO EXPLAINS THAT SOME ARE CHILDREN AND CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE DEEPER THINGS? GOD DOES THIS TO PROTECT THEM.
BUT THE SCRIPTURE IS TRUE AND ONE CANNOT MAKE IT UNTRUE BY THEIR LIMITED UNDERSTANDING OF ANOTHER.


I will quote the scripture again, but I cannot make you believe it.

1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Ro 7:14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not

This might help?

 

[Elijah674]

And why are you unable to address the fact that Paul said, "sinners, of whom I AM chief" as a post salvation fact compared to the slant you're trying to put out?

I already did and I will post it again IF you did not see the point?

Well maybe you are only seeing that which God allows you to see? Its called a "mystery" just as John wrote "if we say we have no sin" He also wrote "we cannot sin". Like I said before, some of you should stop trying to teach and become students.

Heb 6:1 ¶ Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

JOHN ALSO EXPLAINS THAT SOME ARE CHILDREN AND CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE DEEPER THINGS? GOD DOES THIS TO PROTECT THEM.
BUT THE SCRIPTURE IS TRUE AND ONE CANNOT MAKE IT UNTRUE BY THEIR LIMITED UNDERSTANDING OF ANOTHER.


I will quote the scripture again, but I cannot make you believe it.

1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Ro 7:14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not

This might help?

1 John 5:16-17 brings up more of the Lords Word. There are two END'S to the same sin. As James 1:15 teaches. (a start & a finish) One is still in its early stage for give able. But the other is not.

--Elijah

 

[josefnospam]

Very simple. If you are under the law you are under the curse of God. But we his people are not under the Law but under his Grace. Romans 6:14 and others

 

[smaller]

I already did and I will post it again IF you did not see the point?

Well maybe you are only seeing that which God allows you to see? Its called a "mystery" just as John wrote "if we say we have no sin" He also wrote "we cannot sin". Like I said before, some of you should stop trying to teach and become students.

Ah, so 'in faith' it really doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with 'really' having sin and being a sinner like Paul said?

In faith we get to make up an entirely different story in order to camp on only one fact that we happen to like?

?

JOHN ALSO EXPLAINS THAT SOME ARE CHILDREN AND CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE DEEPER THINGS? GOD DOES THIS TO PROTECT THEM.
BUT THE SCRIPTURE IS TRUE AND ONE CANNOT MAKE IT UNTRUE BY THEIR LIMITED UNDERSTANDING OF ANOTHER.

Ah, so he only discloses the secret method of double talking to a select mature few who are factually 'chief of sinners' like Paul but really are not and don't sin at all like you? Is that how that works?

You understand that the 'story' doesn't seem to be lining up all that accurately?

By all means feel free to expound on that mystery that perhaps only you understand.

s

 

[George Muller]

I already did and I will post it again IF you did not see the point?

Well maybe you are only seeing that which God allows you to see? Its called a "mystery" just as John wrote "if we say we have no sin" He also wrote "we cannot sin". Like I said before, some of you should stop trying to teach and become students.

Ah, so 'in faith' it really doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with 'really' having sin and being a sinner like Paul said?

In faith we get to make up an entirely different story in order to camp on only one fact that we happen to like?

?

JOHN ALSO EXPLAINS THAT SOME ARE CHILDREN AND CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE DEEPER THINGS? GOD DOES THIS TO PROTECT THEM.
BUT THE SCRIPTURE IS TRUE AND ONE CANNOT MAKE IT UNTRUE BY THEIR LIMITED UNDERSTANDING OF ANOTHER.

Ah, so he only discloses the secret method of double talking to a select mature few who are factually 'chief of sinners' like Paul but really are not and don't sin at all like you? Is that how that works?

You understand that the 'story' doesn't seem to be lining up all that accurately?

By all means feel free to expound on that mystery that perhaps only you understand.

s

The scriptures are clear, what you choose to ignore is your own issue.

1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God

 

[smaller]

The scriptures are clear, what you choose to ignore is your own issue.

It might be understandable to you that some believers don't care for double talk and consider it a despicable activity.

s

 

[George Muller]

Very simple. If you are under the law you are under the curse of God. But we his people are not under the Law but under his Grace. Romans 6:14 and others

Yes very simple.

Ga 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

 

[George Muller]

The scriptures are clear, what you choose to ignore is your own issue.

It might be understandable to you that some believers don't care for double talk and consider it a despicable activity.

s

All I did was post a clear scripture? and if the scriptures offend? then I suggest I hope to offend

 

[smaller]

The scriptures are clear, what you choose to ignore is your own issue.

It might be understandable to you that some believers don't care for double talk and consider it a despicable activity.

s

All I did was post a clear scripture? and if the scriptures offend? then I suggest I hope to offend

All indwelling sin and evil present with 'believers' fully deserves to be UNDER THE LAW and CONDEMNED under the LAW.

I have no issues with the LAW in this way because I too am against indwelling sin and evil present, and all it's works and all it's ways.

Why believers try to dodge the obvious makes their stance questionable at best and blinded at worst.

s

 

[George Muller]

The scriptures are clear, what you choose to ignore is your own issue.

It might be understandable to you that some believers don't care for double talk and consider it a despicable activity.

s

All I did was post a clear scripture? and if the scriptures offend? then I suggest I hope to offend

All indwelling sin and evil present with 'believers' fully deserves to be UNDER THE LAW and CONDEMNED under the LAW.

I have no issues with the LAW in this way because I too am against indwelling sin and evil present, and all it's works and all it's ways.

Why believers try to dodge the obvious makes their stance questionable at best and blinded at worst.

s

If you have a problem with sin? Maybe this is why?

Ro 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Again you may not understand it, but it is still true.

 

[smaller]

If you have a problem with sin? Maybe this is why?

Did I say that George? (who bears an almost identical posting style as the poster formerly known as Mitspa.)

I have no issues with indwelling sin and evil present being 'under the LAW,' judged and condemned in whomever it is found including 'believers.'

And as believers we are at least 'theoretically' also against sin and evil and all it's works and ways.

Why this presents a problem for you is being brought to bear.

s

 

[George Muller]

If you have a problem with sin? Maybe this is why?

Did I say that George? (who bears an almost identical posting style as the poster formerly known as Mitspa.)

I have no issues with indwelling sin and evil present being 'under the LAW,' judged and condemned in whomever it is found including 'believers.'

And as believers we are at least 'theoretically' also against sin and evil and all it's works and ways.

Why this presents a problem for you is being brought to bear.

s

Good so the scripture stands.
The scriptures are clear, what you choose to ignore is your own issue.

1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God

 

[smaller]

Good so the scripture stands.
The scriptures are clear, what you choose to ignore is your own issue.

Do you have A PROBLEM with the LAW being against sin and evil?

?