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Under the Law - what does it mean?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Joe Domingo
  • Start date Start date
Good so the scripture stands.
The scriptures are clear, what you choose to ignore is your own issue.

Do you have A PROBLEM with the LAW being against sin and evil?

?
I have made it clear, that I uphold the law and its true unbending standard. It is those who bring the law down and into parts that dishonor the law. But the law has no power to deliver someone from sin.
Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
 
Good so the scripture stands.
The scriptures are clear, what you choose to ignore is your own issue.

Do you have A PROBLEM with the LAW being against sin and evil?

?
I have made it clear, that I uphold the law and its true unbending standard. It is those who bring the law down and into parts that dishonor the law. But the law has no power to deliver someone from sin.
Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

And NO ONE has claimed the Law has any power to save one from sin. The Law defines sin, it is the standard by which our actions are judged...

Jas 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
Jas 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
 
Good so the scripture stands.
The scriptures are clear, what you choose to ignore is your own issue.

Do you have A PROBLEM with the LAW being against sin and evil?

?
I have made it clear, that I uphold the law and its true unbending standard. It is those who bring the law down and into parts that dishonor the law. But the law has no power to deliver someone from sin.
Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

And NO ONE has claimed the Law has any power to save one from sin. The Law defines sin, it is the standard by which our actions are judged...

Jas 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
Jas 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

It's the same old hack with this subject.

Grace people don't think their own sin and evil is 'under the Law,' judged and condemned. But everyone else is. The classic double standard of hypocrisy. It's only to you but not to me.

And Law adherents have a similar issue. They think their indwelling sin and evil present is 'legally obedient.' Which is laughable.

s
 
Some of us do not believe that perfedt obedience saves anyone. The Law is the standard by which sin is defined...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Grace is the undeserved, unearned forgiveness for breaking the Law...

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

We are saved by grace and faith...

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Interestingly enough, the faith we must have in the grace of God is not even our own, it is a gift from God.

Those who loudly proclaim grace without the law are only reciting half of the story. The Law defines conduct, good and evil. When we trangress, we have sinned. Now once we have sinned, no amount of perfect obedience forgives that, only the grace of God through the faith that God gives us forgive that sin.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Some of us do not believe that perfedt obedience saves anyone. The Law is the standard by which sin is defined...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Grace is the undeserved, unearned forgiveness for breaking the Law...

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

We are saved by grace and faith...

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Interestingly enough, the faith we must have in the grace of God is not even our own, it is a gift from God.

Those who loudly proclaim grace without the law are only reciting half of the story. The Law defines conduct, good and evil. When we trangress, we have sinned. Now once we have sinned, no amount of perfect obedience forgives that, only the grace of God through the faith that God gives us forgive that sin.

So you also understand that at no point or amount of 'legal' obedience does a believer ever become 'sinless?'


yea or nay?

Trying to be basic here.

All the dancing around in the world can be avoided by simple observations of facts.

?

s
 
The very notion of Law remains in direct opposition to lawlessness or sin/transgression/evil.

In Grace many claim them antinomian, and that is a fair claim.

The indwelling sin and evil present with believers is revealed, judged and condemned under LAW just as anyone else's.

It is the same with the legal obedience camps. They can claim the Grace camps are antinomian, but the indwelling sin and evil present with 'legal obedience' believers is no different under LAW than the Grace adherents.

Does anyone see the commonality here?

All indwelling sin and evil present, in all it works and ways remains revealed as a fact 'in all,' judged as a fact 'in all' and condemned as a fact 'in all.'

Trying to evade or avoid this conclusion under Legal obedience or Grace will never work and never has.

We might all learn an easy lesson on not trying to avoid the obvious conclusions of Law and take the medicine of fact instead.

s
 
Good so the scripture stands.
The scriptures are clear, what you choose to ignore is your own issue.

Do you have A PROBLEM with the LAW being against sin and evil?

?
I have made it clear, that I uphold the law and its true unbending standard. It is those who bring the law down and into parts that dishonor the law. But the law has no power to deliver someone from sin.
Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

And NO ONE has claimed the Law has any power to save one from sin. The Law defines sin, it is the standard by which our actions are judged...

Jas 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
Jas 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
No, it is the strength of sin and causes sinful lust and desires in those who are under its yoke.
Ro 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Well what has this scripture to do with your point? James is speaking of the "royal law" of Love.

Jas 2:8 ¶ If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Ro 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
 
It's the same old hack with this subject.

Grace people don't think their own sin and evil is 'under the Law,' judged and condemned. But everyone else is. The classic double standard of hypocrisy. It's only to you but not to me.

And Law adherents have a similar issue. They think their indwelling sin and evil present is 'legally obedient.' Which is laughable.
Im sorry if you dont understand? Some men have spent many years and never come to to understand the gospel, but the Word of God is clear;

1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
 
Im sorry if you dont understand?

Understand what? That sin and evil is condemned under Law?


I certainly understand, accept and fully agree with that.

No problem with me George.

s
Well you got the easy part. The hard part is to believe.

Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
 
George Muller said:
Well you got the easy part. The hard part is to believe.

Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

The hardest part has always been trying to find believers who can have honest discussions about these facts.

Most are awash in delusions of grandeur.

s
 
George Muller said:
Well you got the easy part. The hard part is to believe.

Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

The hardest part has always been trying to find believers who can have honest discussions about these facts.

Most are awash in delusions of grandeur.

s
I proclaim the clear and evident truth of scripture, if they seem too far for you to believe? Thats your choice.

Heb 11:1 ¶ Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
 
Reopened

Playing games here is not what these forums are for. Some deletions are in order. Moderator

Closed thread for clean up
 
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