Undergoing the sanctification process is necessary for salvation!

[francisdesales]

You are wrong, the congregatiion I follow believes OSAS unless someone could come to a place where they totally reject the blood of Christ and they would have to be a VERY mature Christian.

Ok, I am wrong. You would know better. Out of curiousity, what does "reject the blood of Christ" mean? Isn't any turning from God a "rejection of the blood" and His work? Which particular "turning from God" does your congregation have in mind, a total falling away to atheism?

And this only applies to "mature" Christians, so what is your thoughts on someone Christian for a few years who falls away? This is not an unusual situation, but isn't that a long enough time to have escaped the pollution of sin, to some degree?

In your scenario my congregation would not say "that this person was never saved", because they would never assume that. I would pray lifting this person up with the understanding that it is the Lord's will that all His children walk in the Spirit, understanding that the Lord loves this person and does not want to see them destroying their life and those of others, that it is the Lord's will to bless His children. So I would thank the Lord for loving them so much and that whatever needs to happen in their life He will accomplish it. I would pray for them in faith, believing things that be not as though they were.

I guess I fail to understand how you would explain someone who had accepted Christ and then later fall away. What you describe is what I would do. But doesn't OSAS presume that a fallen away Christian was never actually "true Christian" to begin with? That is why I find OSAS people throw 1 John 2:19 at me as proof that "they never were of us". Not you, I guess they were TULIP charecters!

Yike, I keep telling you, Not all OSAS people are 5 point Calvanists.

OK. Forgive my ignorance.

I presumed that OSAS means the same thing to Baptists and Calvinists. Perhaps you can explain the difference between your version and TULIP? Sheesh, I can't keep up with all these different doctrines across the religious spectrum. I'd comment further on that, but I guess I better not... ;)

The ministry I follow and believe the closest to, cannot be labeled. In fact, the Arch Bishop in Hungry a few yrs. ago authorized one of his monks to leave the country and attend school under this ministry. He now teaches two of the classes at the monasteries (sp?) and schools Hungary and has been promoted to Head Master.
There are Christians in this world reaching out to each other and finding common ground because of their love for our Savior.

That is wonderful. Vatican 2 was our big start in that direction, ecumenism. I am as happy for you as Paul was for Apollos!

Regards

 

[Deborah13]

You are wrong, the congregatiion I follow believes OSAS unless someone could come to a place where they totally reject the blood of Christ and they would have to be a VERY mature Christian.

Ok, I am wrong. You would know better. Out of curiousity, what does "reject the blood of Christ" mean? Isn't any turning from God a "rejection of the blood" and His work? Which particular "turning from God" does your congregation have in mind, a total falling away to atheism?

And this only applies to "mature" Christians, so what is your thoughts on someone Christian for a few years who falls away? This is not an unusual situation, but isn't that a long enough time to have escaped the pollution of sin, to some degree?

[/B]

I guess I fail to understand how you would explain someone who had accepted Christ and then later fall away. What you describe is what I would do. But doesn't OSAS presume that a fallen away Christian was never actually "true Christian" to begin with? That is why I find OSAS people throw 1 John 2:19 at me as proof that "they never were of us". Not you, I guess they were TULIP charecters!



OK. Forgive my ignorance.

I presumed that OSAS means the same thing to Baptists and Calvinists. Perhaps you can explain the difference between your version and TULIP? Sheesh, I can't keep up with all these different doctrines across the religious spectrum. I'd comment further on that, but I guess I better not... ;)



That is wonderful. Vatican 2 was our big start in that direction, ecumenism. I am as happy for you as Paul was for Apollos!

Regards

http://news.awmi.net/home/tag/hungary?currentPage=2

Everything you are asking it at www.awmi.net. However, the link above will take you directly to the page that is the article about what is happening in, Hungary. Scroll half way down the page and there's a beautiful pic of the monastry built in 900 something, very old.

 

[francisdesales]

http://news.awmi.net/home/tag/hungary?currentPage=2

Everything you are asking it at www.awmi.net. However, the link above will take you directly to the page that is the article about what is happening in, Hungary. Scroll half way down the page and there's a beautiful pic of the monastry built in 900 something, very old.

Looks like Mr. Wommack is doing good ecumenical work. God bless.

Regards

 

[josefnospam]

There was only one who was obedient to God. We cannot be. So if you do not have the covering of Christ for your sins your in trouble. What part can you add to what our Lord did. How can you improve on his work? We must trust in him and NEVER in anything we do. We serve a GREAT Lord and Saviour and we should give HIM all the praise honor and glory due him alone now and forever.

 

[francisdesales]

There was only one who was obedient to God. We cannot be. So if you do not have the covering of Christ for your sins your in trouble. What part can you add to what our Lord did. How can you improve on his work? We must trust in him and NEVER in anything we do. We serve a GREAT Lord and Saviour and we should give HIM all the praise honor and glory due him alone now and forever.

No one can be obedient to God??? Have you read the Old Testament?

How about the opening lines of Luke's Gospel?

There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judæa, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless Luke 1:5-6.

I think you need to qualify your statement with 'No one can obey God WITHOUT the grace of God'. The Psalmists recognized this, as did the prophets. If no one could obey God, it would be VERY WEIRD for the prophets to be calling the people to do something they were not ABLE to do! It would be doubly weird if God would make a law that NO ONE could follow - and then condemn such lawbreakers to death for not following that law that no one could keep...

The confusion over this theology is from not being able to distinguish between the one who tries to justify themselves and the one who relies on grace to be considered just by God.

The one who wants to justifiy themselves by their own abilities by legalisic lawkeeping - THEY are the ones who must keep the entire law without error. THAT is not possible.

However, to the one who follows God and trusts in His mercy and love for salvation, making an effort to keep that law from their heart, THEY don't have to keep the entire law without error because they rely on God to be considered just, not their own abilities. God expects this way to seek Him out. That is why the Law includes repentance rites within it.

Regards

 

[Deborah13]

Looks like Mr. Wommack is doing good ecumenical work. God bless.

Regards

Actually ecumenism is not a work of his ministry. This was an unusal development.

 

[John Zain]

If no one could obey God, it would be VERY WEIRD for the prophets
to be calling the people to do something they were not ABLE to do!

It would be doubly weird if God would make a law that NO ONE could follow -
and then condemn such lawbreakers to death for not following that law
that no one could keep...

I've believed the following for about 10 years ...

God's 2 major objectives in His long involved OT

1 -- Through His specially-coddled "chosen people", PROVE that man is unable
to satisfy His holiness, which was, of course, due to their inherited sin nature.
Did God reveal this horrible situation to Moses, etc.?
No, else could Moses, etc. have given the Law to the incompetents with a straight face?

2 -- Through (1) above, PROVE that man needed some heavy-duty help!
So, the groundwork was laid re: prophesying about the Messiah.
And the protection/provision of His "chosen people" was of #1 importance
because this Messiah was to come through them.

Anyway, dat's how I see it ... out here on Star #49027618
... and I'ze bin told we have more light out our way.

 

[Mitspa]

There was only one who was obedient to God. We cannot be. So if you do not have the covering of Christ for your sins your in trouble. What part can you add to what our Lord did. How can you improve on his work? We must trust in him and NEVER in anything we do. We serve a GREAT Lord and Saviour and we should give HIM all the praise honor and glory due him alone now and forever.

Amen Josef, God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit. There no holiness in mans flesh.
We are only as holy as we are spiritual.
Paul never promoted this so-called santification process. He taught to walk in the Spirit and to bear fruit unto holiness.
For we are only holy when we have ceased from our own works and are in Gods grace. For grace is the sabbath rest, Remember the sabbath to keep it holy. Holiness is rest, from mans efforts to earn the things of God.

Walk in the spirit and you will not fufill the lust of the flesh.
This is the only holiness taught in the New Testament.