Undergoing the sanctification process is necessary for salvation!

[Deborah13]

The other point which can be made is that if I habitually indulge in sin, yet boast I am saved, then it begs the question whether I've really experienced God's life-changing salvation.

farouk, aside from determining IF someone is saved or not.....

What is the purpose of sancitification? Is it just to prove to other people and ourselves that we are truly saved or not?

 

[farouk]

farouk, aside from determining IF someone is saved or not.....

What is the purpose of sancitification? Is it just to prove to other people and ourselves that we are truly saved or not?

The Lord Jesus said: 'By their fruits ye shall know them', and He looks for His servants to honor Him and be witnesses for Him. When the disciples first became known as 'Christians' at Antioch, it was because their character took after what was known about the person of the Lord Jesus.

During World War Two, some German soldiers wore belts which said: 'Gott mit uns'. 'God with us'. So I guess my point is that it's by what the believer does, as well as by what s/he professes, that honest and accurate testimony for the Lord Jesus actually occurs. (The accuracy of what the soldiers' belts declared remained in serious doubt.)

'Not of works' is a great doctrinal yardstick. There is no room for boasting. The next verse in Ephesians 2 also refers to believers being His workmanship.

 

[Sinthesis]

Maybe somebody should define 'sanctification' and what exactly the 'process' is?

 

[childeye]

Maybe somebody should define 'sanctification' and what exactly the 'process' is?

Finding out we were heartless to think God was heartless.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Hey, tnd, don't ever say NEVER! ... These apply to EVERYONE! ...

Nope. Not believers. Sorry, but that's just plain wrong. Doesn't matter how "loud" a font you use, it won't change the fact that believers are secure from the moment of salvation.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Yes, the weakness of the OSAS idea.

Careful, for you just called the Bible weak. It teaches eternal security. Any other interpretation is bad interpretation.

You make the mistake of thinking heaven is our primary purpose in being saved. Heaven is just the reward. Sanctification is for the real purpose of salvation, to love and serve the Lord. Sanctification teaches us how to live this life, though how we live it is not what gets us into heaven. How we live it -- loving God through service to others both at the social and spiritual level -- determines our level of reward in heaven, but heaven is already assured for those who have believed.

 

[Deborah13]

The Lord Jesus said: 'By their fruits ye shall know them', and He looks for His servants to honor Him and be witnesses for Him. When the disciples first became known as 'Christians' at Antioch, it was because their character took after what was known about the person of the Lord Jesus.

During World War Two, some German soldiers wore belts which said: 'Gott mit uns'. 'God with us'. So I guess my point is that it's by what the believer does, as well as by what s/he professes, that honest and accurate testimony for the Lord Jesus actually occurs. (The accuracy of what the soldiers' belts declared remained in serious doubt.)

'Not of works' is a great doctrinal yardstick. There is no room for boasting. The next verse in Ephesians 2 also refers to believers being His workmanship.

I agree with your full statement. I think your very first paragraph is what answers the question that I asked, as to what is the purpose of sanctification, the part that I highlighted.

For me the purpose of santification has one purpose and one purpose only, "to glorify Jesus".

I'm willingly to learn something different if someone can show me in scripture that it has any other purpose.

 

[Deborah13]

Careful, for you just called the Bible week. It teaches eternal security. Any other interpretation is bad interpretation.

You make the mistake of thinking heaven is our primary purpose in being saved. Heaven is just the reward. Sanctification is for the real purpose of salvation, to love and serve the Lord. Sanctification teaches us how to live this life, though how we live it is not what gets us into heaven. How we live it -- loving God through service to others both at the social and spiritual level -- determines our level of reward in heaven, but heaven is already assured for those who have believed.

Amen, sanctification is the Lord working in us to become people who's lives Glorify the Son.

 

[farouk]

I agree with your full statement. I think your very first paragraph is what answers the question that I asked, as to what is the purpose of sanctification, the part that I highlighted.

For me the purpose of santification has one purpose and one purpose only, "to glorify Jesus".

I'm willingly to learn something different if someone can show me in scripture that it has any other purpose.

Deborah:

It all relates to the ultimate purpose of glorifying the Lord Jesus, certainly.

I'm sure in the New Testament there are various reference to sanctification where the emphasis is positional: the fact that the believer is in principle set apart.

I'm sure also there are various references in the New Testament to the conditional aspect: the ongoing, practical sanctification of the believer, day by day.

But its whole purpose is to glorify Him, certainly.

Blessings.

 

[Guest]

Nope. Not believers. Sorry, but that's just plain wrong. Doesn't matter how "loud" a font you use, it won't change the fact that believers are secure from the moment of salvation.

ARE YOU SURE??? HAHA.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

ARE YOU SURE??? HAHA.

Absolutely, completely, unequivocally, without-a-doubt positive.

 

[Guest]

Absolutely, completely, unequivocally, without-a-doubt positive.

I agree.

 

[francisdesales]

Try: 'never sanctified, never saved'!

For example, look at the greetings at the beginning of the various Epistles. Clearly, those who say they believe are regarded as being set apart for God. (And their sins needed forgiving, too.)

I think we disagree - although I agree with that a person is not saved to enter heaven if they are not sanctified.

Being set apart by God means belonging to the Church. Just as the Jews were part of the People of God, it DID NOT FOLLOW that they would obey the Torah or have faith in God to the proper degree. Same with Christians, faith is ongoing. We must persevere until the end. The journey is long and hard. But because we are "set apart" doesn't mean we are one of the elect.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

farouk, aside from determining IF someone is saved or not.....

What is the purpose of sancitification? Is it just to prove to other people and ourselves that we are truly saved or not?

Sanctification is the process by which we are transformed into another Christ, so to speak. That is the point of gaining eternal life. Eternal life is NOT a pass to heaven. It is sharing in the divine nature. Even now, here on earth. Sanctification - being made holy, is that process by which we pick up our crosses and die to self and learn to become like the Christ of the Gospels.

Now, in OSAS, there is no point in this process, since Christ "covers" you anyway. Salvation/justification/sanctification are all rolled into one moment in time, and is defined as the passport into heaven. It is certainly not the intent of the Bible and the numerous exhortations to become holy.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Careful, for you just called the Bible weak.

No, I didn't. Don't put words in my "mouth". I said OSAS is a weak doctrine, since it relies on the misinterpretation of a couple verses and totally ignores what Christ teaches, as if Paul abrogates all that Jesus taught. This is ludicrous. "Eternal security" is only for those who remain in Christ. God will remain faithful to His promises. He will not pull the rug out from under people who are abiding in Christ and are obeying the commandments through the power of the Spirit. But to say that one is eternally secure because they misappropriate that end-of-time judgment to the present is fallacious.

What is ironic for the OSAS followers is that YOU ARE NOT SECURE. Why? Because if you falter, then all your buddies will claim "you never were saved to begin with". Paul says be careful that you do not fall. Jesus says the same - persevere until the end. There is no guarantee that YOU PERSONALLY will endure until the end. Thus, if you do falter, heaven forbid, the OSAS doctrine will claim that you weren't saved. Thus, you are not secure...

Sorry to break it to you. You are just going to have to rely on the mercy of God, rather than presumptuously claiming that you already know your eternal destiny without God giving any input.

It teaches eternal security. Any other interpretation is bad interpretation.

Sorry, "begging the question" does not impress the audience...

You make the mistake of thinking heaven is our primary purpose in being saved. Heaven is just the reward. Sanctification is for the real purpose of salvation, to love and serve the Lord.

Why bother being sanctified if you are guaranteed eternal life NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO HERE?

The OSAS motto should be "eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow, you go to heaven"...

That is not the Gospel message. "Work out your salvation in fear and trembling" just doesn't sound like "it's already done, you are already saved for eternal life, guaranteed".

Sanctification teaches us how to live this life, though how we live it is not what gets us into heaven. How we live it -- loving God through service to others both at the social and spiritual level -- determines our level of reward in heaven, but heaven is already assured for those who have believed.

Level of reward in heaven??? Point to me some Scriptures verses. Heaven will be the fullest amount of love that our heart can handle. There will be no 'shortcomings" of grace for those in heaven. We will be in unioin with God. There will be no concern about person "x" having more "rewards" than person "y". Judgment determines eternal destiny, not level of "rewards"!

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

I agree with your full statement. I think your very first paragraph is what answers the question that I asked, as to what is the purpose of sanctification, the part that I highlighted.

For me the purpose of santification has one purpose and one purpose only, "to glorify Jesus".

I'm willingly to learn something different if someone can show me in scripture that it has any other purpose.

We glorify Jesus in a number of ways, many of which do not include "cheap grace".

Dying to self, self-mortification, taking up your cross, suffering for the sake of others, building up the body - these all glorify Christ, but serve little purpose to the one "eternally secure" and sees no point in "working out your salvation". WHY BOTHER? It supposedly doesn't add anything to what Christ did, so why would someone die to self? That is truly hard and difficult work. People avoid it, and OSAS is the perfect excuse to say "I'm already saved for heaven".

2 Peter 2 is a wonderful example of how OSAS fails. The false preacher basically was teaching "cheap grace", claiming that he was in Christ while living a life of sin.

Regards

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

No, I didn't. Don't put words in my "mouth".

I don't have to put words in your mouth when what you espouse is not biblical, and "lost salvation" is absolutely not biblical.

I said OSAS is a weak doctrine, since it relies on the misinterpretation of a couple verses and totally ignores what Christ teaches, as if Paul abrogates all that Jesus taught.

The only misinterpretation regarding those teachings is the one that asserts that one can lose his/her salvation. It is impossible.

This is ludicrous.

It certainly is. You've undoubtedly had the facts presented to you before and choose to ignore them. Therefore I will not bother to repeat them again for you to trample on with misunderstanding. Done here.

 

[John Zain]

Sanctification is the process by which we are transformed into another Christ, so to speak.
That is the point of gaining eternal life. Eternal life is NOT a pass to heaven.
It is sharing in the divine nature. Even now, here on earth.
Sanctification - being made holy, is that process by which we pick up our crosses and die to self and learn to become like the Christ of the Gospels.
Now, in OSAS, there is no point in this process, since Christ "covers" you anyway. Salvation/justification/sanctification are all rolled into one moment in time,
and is defined as the passport into heaven.
It is certainly not the intent of the Bible and the numerous exhortations to become holy.

And the numerous exhortations to become perfect.
Shall we have a look at all of the holy and perfect verses?

1900 years of false doctrine about SWM being obsolete.
???? years of false doctrine about OSAS.
Believers sure have been burdened by Satan and church leadership!

 

[Deborah13]

Sanctification is the process by which we are transformed into another Christ, so to speak. That is the point of gaining eternal life. Eternal life is NOT a pass to heaven. It is sharing in the divine nature. Even now, here on earth. Sanctification - being made holy, is that process by which we pick up our crosses and die to self and learn to become like the Christ of the Gospels.

Now, in OSAS, there is no point in this process, since Christ "covers" you anyway. Salvation/justification/sanctification are all rolled into one moment in time, and is defined as the passport into heaven. It is certainly not the intent of the Bible and the numerous exhortations to become holy. Regards

I guess if the only reason someone has turned to Jesus and wants to stay there in Him is so that they will have eternal life and someday go to heaven then it wouldn't matter, if they believed OSAS, but the fact is that when one is born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit that they are made alive unto Christ. They are a new creature in Christ. They have a new identity and it's not that of the sinner. So if they are living in their new identity they just don't WANT to sin because they have a new heart with new desires.

 

[gr8grace]

We glorify Jesus in a number of ways, many of which do not include "cheap grace".

Dying to self, self-mortification, taking up your cross, suffering for the sake of others, building up the body - these all glorify Christ, but serve little purpose to the one "eternally secure" and sees no point in "working out your salvation". WHY BOTHER? It supposedly doesn't add anything to what Christ did, so why would someone die to self? That is truly hard and difficult work. People avoid it, and OSAS is the perfect excuse to say "I'm already saved for heaven".

2 Peter 2 is a wonderful example of how OSAS fails. The false preacher basically was teaching "cheap grace", claiming that he was in Christ while living a life of sin.

Regards

Do you remember when we were going over "believe" in the present tense? Do you remember how you "distracted" it to "the hearers" in the audience and what they thought of it? So you would not have to answer to the facts presented to you.

I will give you another verse that has to be distorted so as to follow a false doctrine like one losing salvation.

In ACT 16:31, the word believe, or pisteuo, is an aorist tense. With an aorist tense being used, it means that at the exact point of time that you believe, God saves you And continues to be true. It is not only academic dishonesty, it is also blasphemous to tell people that they can lose their salvation, and then back it up by misquoting the original languages. In addition to the aorist tense, the word believe, or pisteuo, The active voice indicates that the subject produces the action of the verb. In addition, the imperative mood tells us that this is a command. In fact, it is the only way of salvation.

They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, …. The phrase, will be saved, is the future passive indicative of the word sozo, referring to eternal salvation. The future tense is what is known as a logical future, which reveals the fact that once you believe you shall be saved. The passive voice receives the action of the verb, and the indicative mood indicates that this is a dogmatic statement that cannot be changed.

And 100% of the verses that you want to present as a "present tense believe" to falsely use to teach one can lose their salvation are used as a NOMINATIVE PRESENT PARTICIPLE which is a verbal Noun(the Subject) does the believing and at that point in time and He/she is SAVED.

I gave you an example of this," Whoever pays the fine........." we can add to this anything we want "will not go to jail" or "will be saved from jail"

"pays" is in the present tense, but there is a subject attached to "pays" So the subject is really the one in view in this sentence. When the subject pays the fine, the Fine is habitually paid and keeps on being paid at the MOMENT the subject "pays". And the subject is continually saved from the jail sentence.