Undergoing the sanctification process is necessary for salvation!

[Deborah13]

We glorify Jesus in a number of ways, many of which do not include "cheap grace".

Dying to self, self-mortification, taking up your cross, suffering for the sake of others, building up the body - these all glorify Christ, but serve little purpose to the one "eternally secure" and sees no point in "working out your salvation". WHY BOTHER? It supposedly doesn't add anything to what Christ did, so why would someone die to self? That is truly hard and difficult work. People avoid it, and OSAS is the perfect excuse to say "I'm already saved for heaven". Regards

1. Why would someone die to self? Because they love the Lord because they so appreciate what He did for them and He Loves them?

2. Truly hard and difficult. Yes it could be depending on the circumstances in one's life.

3. Do you know someone like this or are you reasoning that it would be this way?

I have an opinion of you that says that if you were to believe OSAS it would not make one darn difference in the way you live your life, you would keep right on living for Jesus. I could be wrong of coarse, I can only go by what I hear you saying.

 

[Deborah13]

John 17:3

King James Version (KJV)

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Galatians 1:4

King James Version (KJV)

4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:


We are sanctified so that we can glorify the Son but we do reap benefits in this present time on earth as well as in the future.

One of my favorite pastors said this of eternal life...
""It's not, "pie in the sky, by and by" but rather, "steak on your plate while you wait."

 

[francisdesales]

I don't have to put words in your mouth when what you espouse is not biblical, and "lost salvation" is absolutely not biblical.

it is not biblical. OSAS doesn't even pass the common sense test, much less the Biblical test. The once righteous can turn to evil and be worse off than if they never had turned to righteous in the first place. Re-read 2 peter 2:20-22 for starters.

The only misinterpretation regarding those teachings is the one that asserts that one can lose his/her salvation. It is impossible.

Basically, what you are saying is that your interpretations of Scriptures are infallible. Amazing.

It certainly is. You've undoubtedly had the facts presented to you before and choose to ignore them.

Again, you presume too much. "I undoubtedly had the facts presented to me". Maybe you should present them to me, since you already view yourself as infallible...

Therefore I will not bother to repeat them again for you to trample on with misunderstanding. Done here.

In other words, I can't explain it, so I'm going to act self-righteous.

Too bad, maybe I could have learned something here.

 

[francisdesales]

I guess if the only reason someone has turned to Jesus and wants to stay there in Him is so that they will have eternal life and someday go to heaven then it wouldn't matter, if they believed OSAS, but the fact is that when one is born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit that they are made alive unto Christ. They are a new creature in Christ. They have a new identity and it's not that of the sinner. So if they are living in their new identity they just don't WANT to sin because they have a new heart with new desires.

Yes, all of that is true - except the part that you absolutely CANNOT revert to the former sinful life and expect to remain saved. We discussed this in 2 Peter 2. Remain in Christ, and all is well. Common experience tells us that people do fall away. And to declare "they never were saved to begin with" is a worrisome proclamation, since we have no clue whether someone will make the same determination about us in the future.

Regards

 

[farouk]

Sanctification is not the same as justification.

Sanctification has a progressive aspect to it, as those already in a right standing with God in Christ seek to follow His ways more perfectly, day by day.

But Biblical justification is a completed act, which, through faith in Christ, brings the sinner onto a right standing with God. Romans 5.1 says: 'Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.'

Justification is a judicial, or forensic, event in time, by which the righteousness of God is reckoned to the believer's account.

Justification is emphatically not sanctification, although both justification and sanctification are Biblical doctrines.

 

[Deborah13]

Yes, all of that is true - except the part that you absolutely CANNOT revert to the former sinful life and expect to remain saved. We discussed this in 2 Peter 2. Remain in Christ, and all is well. Common experience tells us that people do fall away. And to declare "they never were saved to begin with" is a worrisome proclamation, since we have no clue whether someone will make the same determination about us in the future. Regards

I do not feel that anyone has the right to determine if someone else is saved or not no matter how they are living their lives. I'm sorry I just can't go there because the Scripture tells us we are not the judge of someone's salvation, that is for the Lord to judge. If someone is having trouble I need to lift them up in not tear them down. I should be praying for them.
I agree that 2 Peter is talking about someone who as turned back to some former life and that it will be harder on them but I also believe that the Lord will never forsake one of His sealed believers and He will bring them back to Him somehow or they will die before they go too far and reject Him.
The Lord had the power to get that person to Him to be born again, He is surely able to keep them.
I would never give up on my own child and I am just a natural person, why would I think the Lord would give up on one of His?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

it is not biblical. OSAS doesn't even pass the common sense test, much less the Biblical test.

You have insulted God for the last time in my sight. I wish you blessings, peace, and revealed truth.

 

[Deborah13]

Sanctification is not the same as justification.

Sanctification has a progressive aspect to it, as those already in a right standing with God in Christ seek to follow His ways more perfectly, day by day.

But Biblical justification is a completed act, which, through faith in Christ, brings the sinner onto a right standing with God. Romans 5.1 says: 'Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.'

Justification is a judicial, or forensic, event in time, by which the righteousness of God is reckoned to the believer's account.

Justification is emphatically not sanctification, although both justification and sanctification are Biblical doctrines.

Yes, agreed. And...the new creation, the new man, the born again spirit is already righteous and holy but our carnal man needs to be renewed (taught to be holy) sanctified. See bold in scripture.

Ephesians 4:20-24

King James Version (KJV)

20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

 

[francisdesales]

You have insulted God for the last time in my sight. I wish you blessings, peace, and revealed truth.

Friend, you are confusing God with your interpretations. Do not place God and your interpretations in the same category. He is infallible. You are not.

Thanks for your blessings, I offer the same.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

I do not feel that anyone has the right to determine if someone else is saved or not no matter how they are living their lives.

I don't. I can't even guarantee my own, how can I judge someone else? Only God knows whether I am of the eternally elect.

However, that is what the OSAS crowd must do if someone falls away. They end up judging that "he never was saved to begin with". How can anyone make that determination? How does anyone else know what is in the heart of that person going through the "reversion back to sin" OR whether that person "really" had faith long ago? Pastors fall away, people who were quite active in ministry. I don't think the explanation (they never were saved) holds water.

And if it does, ironically, it makes us "normal" people wonder about our own current salvation if pastor whatever, who appeared quite holy at one time, is now living in sin and has given up the narrow path for one of perdition.

I'm sorry I just can't go there because the Scripture tells us we are not the judge of someone's salvation, that is for the Lord to judge. If someone is having trouble I need to lift them up in not tear them down. I should be praying for them.

Yes, I agree, which is one reason I do not find OSAS appealing. It ends up judging other people's salvation. It also takes the Lord's right to judge us away from Him. God will judge us based upon our deeds (coupled with our faith). Not on a formula we repeated long time ago. Are we walking in Christ? Are we obeying the commandments of Christ? Then this is evidence that we are His disciples and we are saved, are being saved and will be saved in the end.

I agree that 2 Peter is talking about someone who as turned back to some former life and that it will be harder on them but I also believe that the Lord will never forsake one of His sealed believers and He will bring them back to Him somehow or they will die before they go too far and reject Him.

Christians will be judged for eternal life or eternal damnation. We can be cut off as bad branches if we fail to bear fruit. Just as we were grafted on, we can be cut off again. God doesn't force us to return to Him. The story of the prodigal son is a good point to consider - the Father didn't go out looking to bring the son home. But when the son returned, he was forgiven and accepted back to his position as son. Christ says we must repent. The "unforgiveable" sin, in my opinion, is the failure to repent, since one must repent to be forgiven of something.

The Lord had the power to get that person to Him to be born again, He is surely able to keep them.
I would never give up on my own child and I am just a natural person, why would I think the Lord would give up on one of His?

No, you don't give up on your child. But when they disown you, what are you to do? You can't force them to accept your gifts. Pray for them. That's about it.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Do you remember when we were going over "believe" in the present tense? Do you remember how you "distracted" it to "the hearers" in the audience and what they thought of it? So you would not have to answer to the facts presented to you.

I will give you another verse that has to be distorted so as to follow a false doctrine like one losing salvation.

In ACT 16:31, the word believe, or pisteuo, is an aorist tense. With an aorist tense being used, it means that at the exact point of time that you believe, God saves you And continues to be true. It is not only academic dishonesty, it is also blasphemous to tell people that they can lose their salvation, and then back it up by misquoting the original languages. In addition to the aorist tense, the word believe, or pisteuo, The active voice indicates that the subject produces the action of the verb. In addition, the imperative mood tells us that this is a command. In fact, it is the only way of salvation.

They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, …. The phrase, will be saved, is the future passive indicative of the word sozo, referring to eternal salvation. The future tense is what is known as a logical future, which reveals the fact that once you believe you shall be saved. The passive voice receives the action of the verb, and the indicative mood indicates that this is a dogmatic statement that cannot be changed.

And 100% of the verses that you want to present as a "present tense believe" to falsely use to teach one can lose their salvation are used as a NOMINATIVE PRESENT PARTICIPLE which is a verbal Noun(the Subject) does the believing and at that point in time and He/she is SAVED.

I gave you an example of this," Whoever pays the fine........." we can add to this anything we want "will not go to jail" or "will be saved from jail"

"pays" is in the present tense, but there is a subject attached to "pays" So the subject is really the one in view in this sentence. When the subject pays the fine, the Fine is habitually paid and keeps on being paid at the MOMENT the subject "pays". And the subject is continually saved from the jail sentence.

I am not a grammarian. But Acts 16:31 does not state that one "shall be saved no matter what you do". It states that if you believe, future tense, you will be saved, future tense.

Also, it appears that to you, the word "salvation" means one is guaranteed heaven, no matter what happens in the future. All of those statements from Paul that say "NO ONE shall enter the Kingdom if they are..." you apparently discount. However, they have equal force and application as does Acts 16:31. This verse is conditional - you will be saved if you do not do what other verses in Scriptures warn a man about losing that entrance into the Kingdom.

Thus, salvation mentioned in Acts 16 does not preclude some future act that follows the salvation act to destroy the promise of salvation in the first place. One should consider the context. The salvation offered in Acts 15 means to be healed, made whole, delivered, redeemed.

NONE of those terms implies any permanence. One can get sick again. One can be broken again. One can return to a life of sin again. Nor does it take into account OTHER scriptures that state we can be shut out of the Kingdom for reversion to grievous sin.

People can and do fall into sin, return to the vomit - and their condition is worse than if they NEVER had been healed/sved, delivered in the first place.

Regards

 

[Deborah13]

I don't. I can't even guarantee my own, how can I judge someone else? Only God knows whether I am of the eternally elect.

However, that is what the OSAS crowd must do if someone falls away. They end up judging that "he never was saved to begin with". How can anyone make that determination? How does anyone else know what is in the heart of that person going through the "reversion back to sin" OR whether that person "really" had faith long ago? Pastors fall away, people who were quite active in ministry. I don't think the explanation (they never were saved) holds water.

You are mistaken, there are many, many OSAS believers who do not judge that that person must not have ever been saved, that doctrine comes from Calvin and not all OSAS people believe that way, sheesh, not even all Baptist churches believe that. .

And if it does, ironically, it makes us "normal" people wonder about our own current salvation if pastor whatever, who appeared quite holy at one time, is now living in sin and has given up the narrow path for one of perdition.

Yes, I agree, which is one reason I do not find OSAS appealing. It ends up judging other people's salvation. It also takes the Lord's right to judge us away from Him. God will judge us based upon our deeds (coupled with our faith). Not on a formula we repeated long time ago. Are we walking in Christ? Are we obeying the commandments of Christ? Then this is evidence that we are His disciples and we are saved, are being saved and will be saved in the end.


Christians will be judged for eternal life or eternal damnation. We can be cut off as bad branches if we fail to bear fruit. Just as we were grafted on, we can be cut off again. God doesn't force us to return to Him. The story of the prodigal son is a good point to consider - the Father didn't go out looking to bring the son home. But when the son returned, he was forgiven and accepted back to his position as son. Christ says we must repent. The "unforgiveable" sin, in my opinion, is the failure to repent, since one must repent to be forgiven of something.

No, you don't give up on your child. But when they disown you, what are you to do? You can't force them to accept your gifts. Pray for them. That's about it.

Regards

All sin was paid for at the cross. People will go to eternal damnation for one reason only, "not accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior".

If we could have been saved (found rigtheous) by obeying the Law, there would have been no need for the death of our Lord.

We can't force our child but there are very few children, if any, who would turn away forever, from the parent that they saw as a loving parent. If someone has been born again then they have known the Lord as a loving Father and have recognized His love for them. I believe they will not be able to stay away, the Lord keeps drawing and loving them no matter what. And don't forget He is supernatural, He can do things we cannot.

 

[John Zain]

Common experience tells us that people do fall away.
And to declare "they never were saved to begin with" is a worrisome proclamation ...

Yes, common experience does proclaim that people have done, and still do, fall away.
To say they never were born-again is just wishful thinking by da OSAS crowd.

However, do we have any proof that peole have actually died in this condition?
I.E. Very reasonably, the Lord can bring them back ... as if only on their death-beds.

THIS WHOLE FIGHT OF OURS AGAINST OSAS ... IS A WARNING TO CHRISTIANS:
----------------"DON'T TAKE ANY CHANCES!"

 

[John Zain]

We can be cut off as bad branches if we fail to bear fruit.
Just as we were grafted on, we can be cut off again.

You can't force them to accept your gifts.

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace.
Do we fail to bear fruit, if we don't have these?

And the Lord cannot force anyone to accept His
free gift of: grace (unmerited favor) -- faith -- salvation.

Even the elect can easily be found to have rejected this offer ... for a while (years even).
I know one forum Administrator who did just this.

 

[francisdesales]

You are mistaken, there are many, many OSAS believers who do not judge that that person must not have ever been saved, that doctrine comes from Calvin and not all OSAS people believe that way, sheesh, not even all Baptist churches believe that. .

Really, Deborah? So if a person in your congregation, heaven forbid, was caught in the sin of adultery and they stopped going to your weekly worship services, what would you think? OSAS would state that "that person was never saved", because a "saved" person would not do such things... You couldn't help but wonder that, if that was the basis of your theology.

All sin was paid for at the cross. People will go to eternal damnation for one reason only, "not accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior".

And that includes people who choose not to accept Him in the distant future, but accept Him today.

He are some more examples, similar to 2 Peter 2...

When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first. Matt 12:43-45

Now, this is refering to the case where a "strong man", Christ, has cast out the demon. Note, quite similar to 2 Peter, the situation later becomes even worse...

For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace? Heb 10:26-29

Indeed, how much WORSE will it be for us, IF God punished His People. Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed, despite the Jewish thinking that God had promised that He would be among them and that they were 'saved'.

If we could have been saved (found rigtheous) by obeying the Law, there would have been no need for the death of our Lord.

I disagree that this is a valid conclusion. A lot of people were found righteous before the Death of the Lord, such as Zechariah and Elizabeth (Luke 1:5-6) They were righteous by faithfully following Torah - obedience to the Will of God through faith. But it doesn't follow that God did not retroactively leave this window open for the Jews or anyone else who was spiritually circumcised based on what Jesus would do in the future on the cross. The Scriptures hint at this when they state that God patiently passed over sin, knowing that this aspect of the law would be fulfilled in Christ.

We can't force our child but there are very few children, if any, who would turn away forever, from the parent that they saw as a loving parent.

Forever is not a necessity - only until death. And from my experience, once there is a separation in a relationship, it is nearly impossible to re-establish it if the other does not want to...We live our life, and that other person is forgotten. "He" doesn't come up in the daily grind. It is quite easy to let years pass by. I know this from personal experience and my sister.

If someone has been born again then they have known the Lord as a loving Father and have recognized His love for them. I believe they will not be able to stay away, the Lord keeps drawing and loving them no matter what. And don't forget He is supernatural, He can do things we cannot.

It would seem that God allows man free will. While grace builds upon grace, those who have more will receive more, it doesn't follow that it is impossible to fall away. I would agree that it is much less likely. It is not something that happens overnight. It may take years of backsliding before it is full-blown rejection.

I am just saying that the possibility exists and that OSAS removes the virtue of hope and humility from the formula - if we "obligate" God to save us based on a faith formula from long ago. As you stated earlier, correctly, it doesn't matter one way or the other to me on whether OSAS is true or not - I will continue my walk as before. It just seems antithetical to the Synoptic Gospels and the exhortations of Paul to Christians that the battle is not over yet and that we continue to rely on God's mercy.

Regards

 

[Deborah13]

Really, Deborah? So if a person in your congregation, heaven forbid, was caught in the sin of adultery and they stopped going to your weekly worship services, what would you think? OSAS would state that "that person was never saved", because a "saved" person would not do such things... You couldn't help but wonder that, if that was the basis of your theology.

You are wrong, the congregatiion I follow believes OSAS unless someone could come to a place where they totally reject the blood of Christ and they would have to be a VERY mature Christian.

In your scenario my congregation would not say "that this person was never saved", because they would never assume that. I would pray lifting this person up with the understanding that it is the Lord's will that all His children walk in the Spirit, understanding that the Lord loves this person and does not want to see them destroying their life and those of others, that it is the Lord's will to bless His children. So I would thank the Lord for loving them so much and that whatever needs to happen in their life He will accomplish it. I would pray for them in faith, believing things that be not as though they were.

Yike, I keep telling you, Not all OSAS people are 5 point Calvanists.
The ministry I follow and believe the closest to, cannot be labeled. In fact, the Arch Bishop in Hungry a few yrs. ago authorized one of his monks to leave the country and attend school under this ministry. He now teaches two of the classes at the monasteries (sp?) and schools Hungary and has been promoted to Head Master.
There are Christians in this world reaching out to each other and finding common ground because of their love for our Savior.

 

[gr8grace]

I am not a grammarian. But Acts 16:31 does not state that one "shall be saved no matter what you do". It states that if you believe, future tense, you will be saved, future tense.

Also, it appears that to you, the word "salvation" means one is guaranteed heaven, no matter what happens in the future. All of those statements from Paul that say "NO ONE shall enter the Kingdom if they are..." you apparently discount. However, they have equal force and application as does Acts 16:31. This verse is conditional - you will be saved if you do not do what other verses in Scriptures warn a man about losing that entrance into the Kingdom.

Thus, salvation mentioned in Acts 16 does not preclude some future act that follows the salvation act to destroy the promise of salvation in the first place. One should consider the context. The salvation offered in Acts 15 means to be healed, made whole, delivered, redeemed.

NONE of those terms implies any permanence. One can get sick again. One can be broken again. One can return to a life of sin again. Nor does it take into account OTHER scriptures that state we can be shut out of the Kingdom for reversion to grievous sin.

People can and do fall into sin, return to the vomit - and their condition is worse than if they NEVER had been healed/sved, delivered in the first place.

Regards

Acts 16:31 " Believe" is in the Aorist Tense. Sozo is a logical future. The moment you believe, the logical future of that point of belief is sozo.

Sozo is in the indicative mood~~ it states that it is a dogmatic statement of FACT, with no chance to change. It dogmatically states permanence

Sozo~~ to save,deliver or protect,heal,preserve,save,do well,be(make) whole.......with out the chance of that changing!--Perfect righteousness in Christ, the only way to get to heaven.

Salvation, sozo cannot be lost. Period

 

[gr8grace]

You are wrong, the congregatiion I follow believes OSAS unless someone could come to a place where they totally reject the blood of Christ and they would have to be a VERY mature Christian.

In your scenario my congregation would not say "that this person was never saved", because they would never assume that. I would pray lifting this person up with the understanding that it is the Lord's will that all His children walk in the Spirit, understanding that the Lord loves this person and does not want to see them destroying their life and those of others, that it is the Lord's will to bless His children. So I would thank the Lord for loving them so much and that whatever needs to happen in their life He will accomplish it. I would pray for them in faith, believing things that be not as though they were.

Yike, I keep telling you, Not all OSAS people are 5 point Calvanists.
The ministry I follow and believe the closest to, cannot be labeled. In fact, the Arch Bishop in Hungry a few yrs. ago authorized one of his monks to leave the country and attend school under this ministry. He now teaches two of the classes at the monasteries (sp?) and schools Hungary and has been promoted to Head Master.
There are Christians in this world reaching out to each other and finding common ground because of their love for our Savior.

Our congregation is OSAS also.

a while back the pastor got caught with prostitutes and busted. He was married and had 3 kids. I for one never doubted His salvation and the congregation never did either. W e are all sinners and bound to hit a wall at some point some bigger then others but we are all going to fail. He is STILL paying the consequences for his actions 4 or 5 years later. Probably will never be a pastor again.

I have a question though. He committed the overt act of adultery.

But I overheard this a lot," I don't want to gossip, but did you hear about so and so? yeah I guess it has been going on for a while. Its so shocking, poor so and so. Did you hear that it was with a prostitute and He was busted in a sting. Did you see the mug shot on tv, looks like he was stoned or drunk also."

Some conversations were even worse.

Which situation is worse in Gods eyes?

 

[Deborah13]

Our congregation is OSAS also.

a while back the pastor got caught with prostitutes and busted. He was married and had 3 kids. I for one never doubted His salvation and the congregation never did either. W e are all sinners and bound to hit a wall at some point some bigger then others but we are all going to fail. He is STILL paying the consequences for his actions 4 or 5 years later. Probably will never be a pastor again.

I have a question though. He committed the overt act of adultery.

But I overheard this a lot," I don't want to gossip, but did you hear about so and so? yeah I guess it has been going on for a while. Its so shocking, poor so and so. Did you hear that it was with a prostitute and He was busted in a sting. Did you see the mug shot on tv, looks like he was stoned or drunk also."

Some conversations were even worse.

Which situation is worse in Gods eyes?

James 2:10-11

King James Version (KJV)

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.


Romans 1:29-31

King James Version (KJV)

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

 

[gr8grace]

James 2:10-11

King James Version (KJV)

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.


Romans 1:29-31

King James Version (KJV)

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

I have a tendency to believe that the Gossip and adding things(other sins) to the overt action is worse then the actual act.

The overt act is SEEN and the person is condemned and looked upon with disdain, but there are 100s of people hiding behind their own self righteousness and gossiping and maligning the person and they get a free pass from most of us.

Mat 7:2 "For in the way that you judge, you will be judged. And by your standard of measure, it will be measured against you."

That is why OSAS is true, the bar is way to high for us to try to keep ourselves saved.