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Understanding the Incarnation

Free said:
There is something to be said for Jesus being the name of God incarnate, who John says was known both as the Word and the Son of God. That is, Jesus, the God-man, came to be, but prior to that he was just God the Son.
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No, sorry, but Jesus was never God the Son
UNTIL He was miraculously born of the Holy Spirit
and UNTIL the Word became flesh-human-Jesus (John 1:14).

They both were instrumental in the "creation" of Jesus, the Son of God.

Note: He was the Son of God because God the Holy Spirit
played the role of His "father".
 
Dougcho said:
No, sorry, but Jesus was never God the Son
UNTIL He was miraculously born of the Holy Spirit
and UNTIL the Word became flesh-human-Jesus (John 1:14).

They both were instrumental in the "creation" of Jesus, the Son of God.

Note: He was the Son of God because God the Holy Spirit
played the role of His "father".
Click to expand...
You never responded to THIS post.
 
Dougcho said:
IMO ... this refers to the Word,
who was a Member of the Trinity before the Incarnation.
Jesus, the Son of God, and the Son of Man (as He called Himself),
who was fully Man and fully God ...
could NOT have come down from heaven UNTIL:
He was born of the virgin Mary,
and after 33 years ascended up into heaven.
Then, He could come down from heaven!
Why don't the pastors teach truths such as this?
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There is always an overlapping in the Godhead that we can never completely separate. In John 14:16-17 Jesus calls Himself the Spirit of truth and said that He dwells with you (Flesh) and will be in you (Holy Spirit). Here we see the overlapping of the Holy Spirit and Jesus as One. In the Old Testament, Jesus was here as the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth. And yet still distinct from the Holy Spirit. Does that loosen or change anything with the question at hand? In other words, could the Holy Spirit ascend and descend before the incarnation? I think so. Would that qualifying as Jesus ascending and descending in the OT?

The OT Jews argued all the time about how impossible it was going to be for the Messiah to fulfill all the conditions needed to fill be be the true Messiah. Maybe they never considered the virgin birth for starters. Sometimes we just don't get to see all the answers yet.

Jesus being born of a virgin, did not inherit a sinful nature. He was both fully God and fully man. His being fully man was not a subtraction to His being fully God, but an addition.

"My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work" (John 4:34).

"I will be with you a little longer, and then I am going to him who sent me" (John 10:33).

Dave
 
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Dougcho said:
Haven't I explained why I believe Jesus inherited Mary's DNA,
which contained man's inherited sin nature?
(Both parents contribute to a baby's DNA.)
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Hi Doug

I meant to post this earlier, but I had a power outage. It gave me more time to think this through. My head is in the clouds because I've been sick for a week and quit coffee since I couldn't stomach it while I was sick anyways. It's an adjustment for sure.

Anyways

I know the evidence of the sinful nature can be seen in the DNA, but how did you come to the conclusion that this is also the conduit by which the sinful nature is passed on?

It seems like a reasonable assumption, but then we can also ask, since mans DNA is different than a woman's, is it possible that God only meant for our sinful nature to be passed on through man only? Then we must ask, if it is passed on through the physical, the spiritual corruption, which is and was complete from the beginning, must also be the result of the physical. That seems backwards.

From the evidence in scripture. I know the sinful nature is passed on through Adam, but is this a once for all, leaving the door open for your interpretation? Also, I see evidence in scripture, that the physical part of our corruption has grown throughout history. Evidenced by how long people lived in the past. And one could argue circumstantially that part of the reason the Law of Moses came to be was to curb the effects of the physical corruption. That is, not marrying close relatives.

And Jewish tradition seems to hold to the idea that it is mans seed is the conduit. It's just tradition, but if true, that does establish the fact that people in the Jewish community seen the sin nature as uniquely passed down through man. Though, even if correct, that could just be a physical picture of a spiritual truth from and OT mind set.

You don't need to answer all this, I was just thinking out loud and wanted to write it down before I lost it. The first question is important though. Thanks.

Dave
 
Dave... said:
Hi Doug

I meant to post this earlier, but I had a power outage. It gave me more time to think this through. My head is in the clouds because I've been sick for a week and quit coffee since I couldn't stomach it while I was sick anyways. It's an adjustment for sure.
Click to expand...
I hope you get well quick.
I quit drinking (decaf) coffee a few week ago, and immediately saw how much whiter my teeth seemed.
Silver lining ?
Dave... said:
Anyways
I know the evidence of the sinful nature can be seen in the DNA, but how did you come to the conclusion that this is also the conduit by which the sinful nature is passed on?
Click to expand...
How is a nature seen in DNA ?
 
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