Unique, Not Only-Begotten

[Runningman]

Hey All,
The same John that you quote said Jesus was with God and was God.

John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

John says Jesus made all things.

So, how is John contradicting this in chapter 6?

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

John isn't contradicting himself. He wasn't saying Jesus is God in John 1:1-14. The "Word" (logos) means a word, speech, or analogy. It essentially refers to the foreknowledge of God. Jesus existed in the thoughts of God then God created Jesus.

I would also refer to you Acts 4, the prayer of John and Peter, who demonstrated they don't believe Jesus is the Sovereign Lord and Creator of the universe, but rather referred to Jesus as God's servant. God refers to Jesus as His chosen servant as well. Jesus serves God, Jesus is not the God.

 

[Runningman]

He claims that Jesus is a mortal man, but can't answer a single question about how that aligns with mounds of Scripture.

I've addressed everything you said to me. Please ask me directly what questions you still have.

 

[Runningman]

This is blatant HERESY!

It is not heresy.

 

[Runningman]

I'll ask once again:

Are you a Christian or not?

If you're not, you will be reported as this is a Christian discussion forum.

Yes I am a Christian. I already answered this.

 

[GodsGrace]

I addressed this in post #324

"John 6 says Jesus didn't have a literal pre-existence. Jesus compared himself to the manna that came down from heaven. The manna that came down from heaven isn't God. God sent the manna and God sent Jesus. It isn't as though the manna was sitting up in the sky since eternity waiting to be delivered to the Israelites then for the comparison to be accurate then neither was Jesus."

You know RM, the above is a rather silly post for a very serious discussion.
Manna is God? Please be serious...no one is saying any manna is God.

Jesus said HIS FOOD lasts forever...just like HIS WATER will allow one to never thirst again.

Please change your attitude and have a mature discussion.
Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes I am a Christian. I already answered this.

Two points:

1. A Christian is a person that believes Jesus is God.
This has been decided by minds greater than ours and THIS IS what makes a person be Christian.
Otherwise you're just following a man.
Why follow a man?

2. Do you know what heresy means?
You are believing in heresy.

Heresy is anything that is taught that is not in keeping with the orthodox beliefs of any religion.
Since your idea is not in keeping with what Christianity teaches, this makes your belief system heretical.

 

[Runningman]

Two points:

1. A Christian is a person that believes Jesus is God.
This has been decided by minds greater than ours and THIS IS what makes a person be Christian.
Otherwise you're just following a man.
Why follow a man?

Not according to scripture.

2. Do you know what heresy means?
You are believing in heresy.

Heresy is anything that is taught that is not in keeping with the orthodox beliefs of any religion.
Since your idea is not in keeping with what Christianity teaches, this makes your belief system heretical.

I do not believe in heresy.

 

[SolaScriptura]

John isn't contradicting himself. He wasn't saying Jesus is God in John 1:1-14. The "Word" (logos) means a word, speech, or analogy. It essentially refers to the foreknowledge of God. Jesus existed in the thoughts of God then God created Jesus.

I would also refer to you Acts 4, the prayer of John and Peter, who demonstrated they don't believe Jesus is the Sovereign Lord and Creator of the universe, but rather referred to Jesus as God's servant. God refers to Jesus as His chosen servant as well. Jesus serves God, Jesus is not the God.

You should be praying for YOURSELF, that God the Holy Spirit would open your eyes to Who Jesus Christ really is!

You distort and reject what the Bible very clearly teaches about Jesus Christ. It is clear to those who want to know the TRUTH, that John 1:1 says that Jesus Christ is ALMIGHTY GOD, and absolutely COEQUAL with the Father, from eternity past! In verse 18, according to the best and original textual reading, we have TWO distinct Persons, Who are EQUALLY called GOD. "God no one has seen at any time the Unique God..." In John 20:28, Thomas says to the Risen, Glorified Jesus Christ, "my LORD and my GOD". Jesus did not rebuke Thomas for saying this, instead He accepted this!

You BLASPHEME when you say that the Father "created" Jesus Christ. This is what the DEVIL believes and NOT anywhere in the 66 Books of the Inspired Word of God, the Bible!

 

[SolaScriptura]

It is not heresy.

100%!

 

[Runningman]

You know RM, the above is a rather silly post for a very serious discussion.
Manna is God? Please be serious...no one is saying any manna is God.

Jesus said HIS FOOD lasts forever...just like HIS WATER will allow one to never thirst again.

Please change your attitude and have a mature discussion.
Thanks.

It's not silly at all because Jesus compared himself to the manna sent from God in John 6. Jesus thusly referred to himself as the bread of life. Since Jesus is comparing himself to the manna, it's a valid point to say that the manna is not God and that the manna did not exist eternally. Therefore, Jesus is not God and did not exist eternally. This is exactly how comparisons work.

Case in point, there are no quotes or actions to cite by Jesus in the Old Testament. He didn't exist except in prophecy.

 

[Runningman]

You should be praying for YOURSELF, that God the Holy Spirit would open your eyes to Who Jesus Christ really is!

You distort and reject what the Bible very clearly teaches about Jesus Christ. It is clear to those who want to know the TRUTH, that John 1:1 says that Jesus Christ is ALMIGHTY GOD, and absolutely COEQUAL with the Father, from eternity past! In verse 18, according to the best and original textual reading, we have TWO distinct Persons, Who are EQUALLY called GOD. "God no one has seen at any time the Unique God..." In John 20:28, Thomas says to the Risen, Glorified Jesus Christ, "my LORD and my GOD". Jesus did not rebuke Thomas for saying this, instead He accepted this!

You BLASPHEME when you say that the Father "created" Jesus Christ. This is what the DEVIL believes and NOT anywhere in the 66 Books of the Inspired Word of God, the Bible!

Thomas didn't say to Jesus "you are God" so I believe you're misunderstanding him. Thomas said that because he was basically saying "omg Jesus has holes in his hands and in his side."

Rather than point at all the things others said and your reasoning behind why you think that makes Jesus God, how about you simply quote Jesus' explicit declaration that he is God? Are you a follower of Thomas or a follower of Jesus? Serious question.

 

[GodsGrace]

Not according to scripture.

Scripture shows that Jesus is God.
This has been believed for the past 2,000 years.
Do you believe YOU know more than theologians that spend their life studying scripture?

So many verses have been given to you that I find it amazing that you don't even CONSIDER what is being said to you.

And you don't get to explain what a Christian is....
as I've stated, that has already been established thousands of years ago.

You can join the faith or not, but you cannot make your own faith and call it Christianity.

I do not believe in heresy.

You must.
Because you're teaching it.

 

[GodsGrace]

Thomas didn't say to Jesus "you are God" so I believe you're misunderstanding him. Thomas said that because he was basically saying "omg Jesus has holes in his hands and in his side."

Rather than point at all the things others said and your reasoning behind why you think that makes Jesus God, how about you simply quote Jesus' explicit declaration that he is God? Are you a follower of Thomas or a follower of Jesus? Serious question.

How did Jesus get those holes in His hands?

 

[GodsGrace]

It's not silly at all because Jesus compared himself to the manna sent from God in John 6. Jesus thusly referred to himself as the bread of life. Since Jesus is comparing himself to the manna, it's a valid point to say that the manna is not God and that the manna did not exist eternally. Therefore, Jesus is not God and did not exist eternally. This is exactly how comparisons work.

Case in point, there are no quotes or actions to cite by Jesus in the Old Testament. He didn't exist except in prophecy.

Did Jesus fulfill any prophecy?
Why?

 

[GodsGrace]

John isn't contradicting himself. He wasn't saying Jesus is God in John 1:1-14. The "Word" (logos) means a word, speech, or analogy. It essentially refers to the foreknowledge of God. Jesus existed in the thoughts of God then God created Jesus.

I would also refer to you Acts 4, the prayer of John and Peter, who demonstrated they don't believe Jesus is the Sovereign Lord and Creator of the universe, but rather referred to Jesus as God's servant. God refers to Jesus as His chosen servant as well. Jesus serves God, Jesus is not the God.

Logos does not mean word or speech.
It does not refer to the foreknowledge of God.

Who created the universe?

 

[Runningman]

Scripture shows that Jesus is God.
This has been believed for the past 2,000 years.
Do you believe YOU know more than theologians that spend their life studying scripture?

So many verses have been given to you that I find it amazing that you don't even CONSIDER what is being said to you.

And you don't get to explain what a Christian is....
as I've stated, that has already been established thousands of years ago.

You can join the faith or not, but you cannot make your own faith and call it Christianity.


You must.
Because you're teaching it.

Scripture does not show Jesus is God. Begin with John 17:3 that explicitly identifies the Father as the Only True God. That means there are no other Gods aside from the Father. I have the entire Bible on my side, with dozens of explicit verses that plainly say what I believe.

Also, your claim that I am not a Christ because I don't believe Jesus is God is false. I think if you try to find a passage to support your conclusion, you will not find it.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Thomas didn't say to Jesus "you are God" so I believe you're misunderstanding him. Thomas said that because he was basically saying "omg Jesus has holes in his hands and in his side."

Rather than point at all the things others said and your reasoning behind why you think that makes Jesus God, how about you simply quote Jesus' explicit declaration that he is God? Are you a follower of Thomas or a follower of Jesus? Serious question.

"MY GOD", with the Greek article, "ὁ Θεός μου", is clear that it cannot be "god", or "a god". IF you think that this does not mean that Thomas said to Jesus, "YOU ARE GOD", then you are very much deceived! It is your "theology" that is blinding you to the TRUTH in the Bible!

Interestingly, the JW’s also produced the Emphatic Diaglott, by Benjamin Wilson. In the 1864 edition, John 1:1 in the right-hand text reads, “and the Logos was God”. Of this reading they say, “The column on the right hand side of the page is a New Version for general reading. This rendering is based upon that in the left hand Column, and the labors of many talented Critics and Translators of the Scriptures” (Preface, Plan of the Work). They reproduced this work in 1942, with the same reading. So, in the one publication they argue for “a god”, while in another they adopt the correct reading, “God”!

Even the New Testament by George Noyes, who was a UNITARIAN, reads "my Lord and my God!". And, in 1:1, he has, "and the Word was God". And verse 18, "the only begotten God". Even though has "theology" did not allow him to believe that Jesus Christ is GOD, yet, in these places he is honest enough to give what is actually written by John! In Hebrews 1:8, Noyes reads, "but of the Son: Thy throne O God...". Here the Father is Addressing Jesus Christ!

In Isaiah 9:6, the New World Translation by the JW's, reads for Jesus Christ, "Mighty God". the same is for the Father in 10:21!

 

[Runningman]

How did Jesus get those holes in His hands?

He was crucified.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Scripture does not show Jesus is God. Begin with John 17:3 that explicitly identifies the Father as the Only True God

I have shown this to be wrong, and yet you keep on pushing this LIES!

 

[Runningman]

Logos does not mean word or speech.
It does not refer to the foreknowledge of God.

G3056 logos
Strong's Concordance
logos: a word (as embodying an idea), a statement, a speech
Original Word: λόγος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: logos
Phonetic Spelling: (log'-os)
Definition: a word (as embodying an idea), a statement, a speech
Usage: a word, speech, divine utterance, analogy.

Who created the universe?

God did. Please see Acts 4 where the Sovereign Lord they prayed to is God and when Jesus was mentioned he was referred to as God's holy servant. Very clear.