Unique, Not Only-Begotten

[Randy]

Now you are getting into heresy

I'm in good company.
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Is Jesus God?
He never dies. -as He stated He lives by the Father just as we who believe in Him live by Him and never die.
Yes, He is all that the Father is. -as stated all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell in Him. The very image of the Father.
No, He has always been the Son. as stated the Him the fullness dwells in begotten from the Father alone before all things.

He reigns until He hands over the Kingdom to God the Father.
Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he “has put everything under his feet.” c Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

 

[JLB]

do you believe that Jesus Christ is Eternally YHWH

Yes! Absolutely!!

 

[JLB]

Greetings again SolaScriptures and Greetings JLB,



Jesus is David's Lord who has been invited to sit at the right hand of the One God, Yahweh, God the Father, in God the Father's Throne. I suggest that the glory that Jesus speaks about is the glory that was in anticipation mentioned in the following:
Psalm 8:1,3–5 (KJV): 1 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens. 3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
Notice that this is written in the past tense as if it is already accomplished when David penned the Psalm, and similar to John 17:5 it is set in the context of the Creation. God foresaw that Jesus a man of His Creation, made a little lower than the Angels, would suffer and die, but then be resurrected, honoured and glorified.

Jesus also alludes to the same theme in the following, and the One God, Yahweh, God the Father reassures Jesus that Jesus would face the coming trials and endure them and would be exalted to the right hand of God, exalted, vindicated and glorified.
John 12:27–28 (KJV): 27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. 28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

Kind regards
Trevor

Do you confess and believe Jesus Christ is the LORD; YHWH the LORD God?

I ask, because from your statement above, it’s hard for me to understand where you stand on this point.

 

[JLB]

I'm in good company.
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Is Jesus God?
He never dies. -as He stated He lives by the Father just as we who believe in Him live by Him and never die.
Yes, He is all that the Father is. -as stated all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell in Him. The very image of the Father.
No, He has always been the Son. as stated the Him the fullness dwells in begotten from the Father alone before all things.

He reigns until He hands over the Kingdom to God the Father.
Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he “has put everything under his feet.” c Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Because Jesus the Son is subject to His Father, as any Son should be doesn’t make Him any less God, than His Father.


Just as any human son is subject to his father, doesn’t make him any less human, than his father.




JLB

 

[donadams]

This translation is wrong!

Protestant versions
John 1:14

Wycliffe Bible
14 And the word was made man, and dwelled among us, and we have seen the glory of him, as the glory of the one begotten Son of the Father, full of grace and of truth. [And the word, that is, God's Son, is made flesh, or man, and hath dwelled in us, and we have seen the glory of him, the glory as of the one begotten of the Father, the Son full of grace and truth.]​

John 1:14

King James Version
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.​

Catholic version

John 1:14

Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.​

 

[Randy]

Because Jesus the Son is subject to His Father, as any Son should be doesn’t make Him any less God, than His Father.


Just as any human son is subject to his father, doesn’t make him any less human, than his father.




JLB

Well it's good to see you believe Jesus is the only begotten of the Father. But it's more than that isn't it? The same Jesus on earth and in heaven calls that one His God.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Protestant versions​

John 1:14​

​

Wycliffe Bible​

14 And the word was made man, and dwelled among us, and we have seen the glory of him, as the glory of the one begotten Son of the Father, full of grace and of truth. [And the word, that is, God's Son, is made flesh, or man, and hath dwelled in us, and we have seen the glory of him, the glory as of the one begotten of the Father, the Son full of grace and truth.]​

John 1:14​

​

King James Version​

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.​

Catholic version

John 1:14​

​

Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition​

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.​

All WRONG!

 

[donadams]

All WRONG!

What version is right

 

[SolaScriptura]

What version is right

Did you read the OP

 

[donadams]

73 books

And we don’t believe scripture alone, you think we can change it?

Sacred tradition:

(Note: not traditions, habits, customs etc.)

Sacred Tradition / apostolic tradition

Every word the apostles heard from the mouth of Christ and were commanded to teach to all men!

The truths revealed by Christ and commanded by Christ to be taught by the apostles to all men!

Matt 28:19 does NOT say: go and teach all men to observe “scripture alone”, it does Not say go write books and let the people make their own faith!

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Commanded to teach not to write “scripture alone”!

Commanded tradition not “scripture alone”!

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Apostolic tradition (doctrine) Not scripture alone”!

Nor is there more than one Christian faith revealed by Christ and taught by the apostolic church!
Eph 4:5

The Authority of the apostolic church is binds the conscience of every Christian to believe the Christian faith or the truths revealed by Christ and found in the creeds, didache, dogma’s and Decree’s of apostolic councils.

The apostles are commanded by Christ to teach tradition.

One revelation of Jesus Christ!
Word (Verbal)
and
Epistle (scripture)
2 thes 2:15



We are commanded by Christ to obey tradition. Matt 28:19-20
Tradition (oral teaching) or every word the apostles heard from the mouth of Christ.

Obedience of faith! Rom 16:26

And scripture supports tradition.

Example of tradition: 1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you…

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Only Christ has authority to establish the one true church and to send the apostles to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation, all sects are full of errors and the tradition of men devoid of grace, truth, and authority.


One mediator:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

On the level of justice Christ is the only mediator, obtaining atonement, grace, mercy, and salvation.

Anyone in the communion of saints can pray and intercede for those in need, and the apostles mediate between Christ and the church, the communion of saints. Matt 28:20

And the angels minister to those who will inherit salvation. Heb 1:14





Verses supporting Sacred tradition

Matt 28:19-20
Acts 1:2-8
Rom 16:26
1 cor 11:23
2 thes 2:15

Tradition is divine revelation from Christ
Both verbal and scripture
Both are tradition!
2 thes 2:15
Tradition / revelation
Either by word (verbal) or epistle (scripture)
So one cannot have more importance or be superior to the other

One revelation of Jesus Christ!
Tradition
Verbal or scripture

Revelation ended with the ascension of Christ. Jn 1:3

Only one faith (revelation) eph 4:5

Acts 1;8 witness of the fathers

PAPIAS
“Papias [A.D. 120], who is now mentioned by us, affirms that he received the sayings of the apostles from those who accompanied them, and he, moreover, asserts that he heard in person Aristion and the presbyter John. Accordingly, he mentions them frequently by name, and in his writings gives their traditions [concerning Jesus]. . . . [There are] other passages of his in which he relates some miraculous deeds, stating that he acquired the knowledge of them from tradition” (fragment in Eusebius, Church History 3:39 [A.D. 312]).

EUSEBIUS OF CAESAREA
“At that time [A.D. 150] there flourished in the Church Hegesippus, whom we know from what has gone before, and Dionysius, bishop of Corinth, and another bishop, Pinytus of Crete, and besides these, Philip, and Apollinarius, and Melito, and Musanus, and Modestus, and, finally, Irenaeus. From them has come down to us in writing, the sound and orthodox faith received from tradition” (Church History 4:21).

IRENAEUS
“As I said before, the Church, having received this preaching and this faith, although she is disseminated throughout the whole world, yet guarded it, as if she occupied but one house. She likewise believes these things just as if she had but one soul and one and the same heart; and harmoniously she proclaims them and teaches them and hands them down, as if she possessed but one mouth. For, while the languages of the world are diverse, nevertheless, the authority of the tradition is one and the same” (Against Heresies 1:10:2 [A.D. 189]).

“That is why it is surely necessary to avoid them [heretics], while cherishing with the utmost diligence the things pertaining to the Church, and to lay hold of the tradition of truth. . . . What if the apostles had not in fact left writings to us? Would it not be necessary to follow the order of tradition, which was handed down to those to whom they entrusted the churches?” (ibid., 3:4:1).

…

“It is possible, then, for everyone in every church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the apostles which has been made known throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the apostles and their successors to our own times—men who neither knew nor taught anything like these heretics rave about.

“But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the successions of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles.

“With this church, because of its superior origin, all churches must agree—that is, all the faithful in the whole world—and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition” (ibid., 3:3:1–2).

 

[donadams]

CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA
“Well, they preserving the tradition of the blessed doctrine derived directly from the holy apostles, Peter, James, John, and Paul, the sons receiving it from the father (but few were like the fathers), came by God’s will to us also to deposit those ancestral and apostolic seeds. And well I know that they will exult; I do not mean delighted with this tribute, but solely on account of the preservation of the truth, according as they delivered it. For such a sketch as this, will, I think, be agreeable to a soul desirous of preserving from loss the blessed tradition” (Miscellanies 1:1 [A.D. 208]).

ORIGEN
“Although there are many who believe that they themselves hold to the teachings of Christ, there are yet some among them who think differently from their predecessors. The teaching of the Church has indeed been handed down through an order of succession from the apostles and remains in the churches even to the present time. That alone is to be believed as the truth which is in no way at variance with ecclesiastical and apostolic tradition” (The Fundamental Doctrines 1:2 [A.D. 225]).

CYPRIAN OF CARTHAGE
“[T]he Church is one, and as she is one, cannot be both within and without. For if she is with Novatian, she was not with [Pope] Cornelius. But if she was with Cornelius, who succeeded the bishop Fabian by lawful ordination, and whom, beside the honor of the priesthood the Lord glorified also with martyrdom, Novatian is not in the Church; nor can he be reckoned as a bishop, who, succeeding to no one, and despising the evangelical and apostolic tradition, sprang from himself. For he who has not been ordained in the Church can neither have nor hold to the Church in any way” (Letters 75:3 [A.D. 253]).

ATHANASIUS
“Again we write, again keeping to the apostolic traditions, we remind each other when we come together for prayer; and keeping the feast in common, with one mouth we truly give thanks to the Lord. Thus giving thanks unto him, and being followers of the saints, ‘we shall make our praise in the Lord all the day,’ as the psalmist says. So, when we rightly keep the feast, we shall be counted worthy of that joy which is in heaven” (Festal Letters 2:7 [A.D. 330]).

“But you are blessed, who by faith are in the Church, dwell upon the foundations of the faith, and have full satisfaction, even the highest degree of faith which remains among you unshaken. For it has come down to you from apostolic tradition, and frequently accursed envy has wished to unsettle it, but has not been able” (ibid., 29).

BASIL THE GREAT
“Of the dogmas and messages preserved in the Church, some we possess from written teaching and others we receive from the tradition of the apostles, handed on to us in mystery. In respect to piety, both are of the same force. No one will contradict any of these, no one, at any rate, who is even moderately versed in matters ecclesiastical. Indeed, were we to try to reject unwritten customs as having no great authority, we would unwittingly injure the gospel in its vitals; or rather, we would reduce [Christian] message to a mere term” (The Holy Spirit 27:66 [A.D. 375]).

EPIPHANIUS OF SALAMIS
“It is needful also to make use of tradition, for not everything can be gotten from sacred Scripture. The holy apostles handed down some things in the scriptures, other things in tradition” (Medicine Chest Against All Heresies 61:6 [A.D. 375]).

AUGUSTINE
“[T]he custom [of not rebaptizing converts] . . . may be supposed to have had its origin in apostolic tradition, just as there are many things which are observed by the whole Church, and therefore are fairly held to have been enjoined by the apostles, which yet are not mentioned in their writings” (On Baptism, Against the Donatists 5:23[31] [A.D. 400]).

“But the admonition that he [Cyprian] gives us, ‘that we should go back to the fountain, that is, to apostolic tradition, and thence turn the channel of truth to our times,’ is most excellent, and should be followed without hesitation” (ibid., 5:26[37]).

“But in regard to those observances which we carefully attend and which the whole world keeps, and which derive not from Scripture but from Tradition, we are given to understand that they are recommended and ordained to be kept, either by the apostles themselves or by plenary [ecumenical] councils, the authority of which is quite vital in the Church” (Letter to Januarius [A.D. 400]).

JOHN CHRYSOSTOM
“[Paul commands,] ‘Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you have been taught, whether by word or by our letter’ [2 Thess. 2:15]. From this it is clear that they did not hand down everything by letter, but there is much also that was not written. Like that which was written, the unwritten too is worthy of belief. So let us regard the tradition of the Church also as worthy of belief. Is it a tradition? Seek no further” (Homilies on Second Thessalonians [A.D. 402]).
VINCENT OF LERINS
“With great zeal and closest attention, therefore, I frequently inquired of many men, eminent for their holiness and doctrine, how I might, in a concise and, so to speak, general and ordinary way, distinguish the truth of the Catholic faith from the falsehood of heretical depravity.

“I received almost always the same answer from all of them—that if I or anyone else wanted to expose the frauds and escape the snares of the heretics who rise up, and to remain intact and in sound faith, it would be necessary, with the help of the Lord, to fortify that faith in a twofold manner: first, of course, by the authority of divine law [Scripture] and then by the tradition of the Catholic Church.

“Here, perhaps, someone may ask: ‘If the canon of the scriptures be perfect and in itself more than suffices for everything, why is it necessary that the authority of ecclesiastical interpretation be joined to it?’ Because, quite plainly, sacred Scripture, by reason of its own depth, is not accepted by everyone as having one and the same meaning. . . .

“Thus, because of so many distortions of such various errors, it is highly necessary that the line of prophetic and apostolic interpretation be directed in accord with the norm of the ecclesiastical and Catholic meaning” (The Notebooks [A.D. 434]).
POPE AGATHO
“[T]he holy Church of God . . . has been established upon the firm rock of this Church of blessed Peter, the prince of the apostles, which by his grace and guardianship remains free from all error, [and possesses that faith that] the whole number of rulers and priests, of the clergy and of the people, unanimously should confess and preach with us as the true declaration of the apostolic tradition, in order to please God and to save their own souls” (Letter read at fourth session of III Constantinople [A.D. 680]).

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again JLB,

Do you confess and believe Jesus Christ is the LORD; YHWH the LORD God?

No, Jesus is the Son of God.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[SolaScriptura]

Greetings again JLB,

No, Jesus is the Son of God.

Kind regards
Trevor

Then the Holy Bible, God's Infallible Word, is WRONG, and YOU are right!!!

 

[SolaScriptura]

73 books

And we don’t believe scripture alone, you think we can change it?

Sacred tradition:

(Note: not traditions, habits, customs etc.)

Sacred Tradition / apostolic tradition

Every word the apostles heard from the mouth of Christ and were commanded to teach to all men!

The truths revealed by Christ and commanded by Christ to be taught by the apostles to all men!

Matt 28:19 does NOT say: go and teach all men to observe “scripture alone”, it does Not say go write books and let the people make their own faith!

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Commanded to teach not to write “scripture alone”!

Commanded tradition not “scripture alone”!

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Apostolic tradition (doctrine) Not scripture alone”!

Nor is there more than one Christian faith revealed by Christ and taught by the apostolic church!
Eph 4:5

The Authority of the apostolic church is binds the conscience of every Christian to believe the Christian faith or the truths revealed by Christ and found in the creeds, didache, dogma’s and Decree’s of apostolic councils.

The apostles are commanded by Christ to teach tradition.

One revelation of Jesus Christ!
Word (Verbal)
and
Epistle (scripture)
2 thes 2:15



We are commanded by Christ to obey tradition. Matt 28:19-20
Tradition (oral teaching) or every word the apostles heard from the mouth of Christ.

Obedience of faith! Rom 16:26

And scripture supports tradition.

Example of tradition: 1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you…

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Only Christ has authority to establish the one true church and to send the apostles to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation, all sects are full of errors and the tradition of men devoid of grace, truth, and authority.


One mediator:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

On the level of justice Christ is the only mediator, obtaining atonement, grace, mercy, and salvation.

Anyone in the communion of saints can pray and intercede for those in need, and the apostles mediate between Christ and the church, the communion of saints. Matt 28:20

And the angels minister to those who will inherit salvation. Heb 1:14





Verses supporting Sacred tradition

Matt 28:19-20
Acts 1:2-8
Rom 16:26
1 cor 11:23
2 thes 2:15

Tradition is divine revelation from Christ
Both verbal and scripture
Both are tradition!
2 thes 2:15
Tradition / revelation
Either by word (verbal) or epistle (scripture)
So one cannot have more importance or be superior to the other

One revelation of Jesus Christ!
Tradition
Verbal or scripture

Revelation ended with the ascension of Christ. Jn 1:3

Only one faith (revelation) eph 4:5

Acts 1;8 witness of the fathers

PAPIAS
“Papias [A.D. 120], who is now mentioned by us, affirms that he received the sayings of the apostles from those who accompanied them, and he, moreover, asserts that he heard in person Aristion and the presbyter John. Accordingly, he mentions them frequently by name, and in his writings gives their traditions [concerning Jesus]. . . . [There are] other passages of his in which he relates some miraculous deeds, stating that he acquired the knowledge of them from tradition” (fragment in Eusebius, Church History 3:39 [A.D. 312]).

EUSEBIUS OF CAESAREA
“At that time [A.D. 150] there flourished in the Church Hegesippus, whom we know from what has gone before, and Dionysius, bishop of Corinth, and another bishop, Pinytus of Crete, and besides these, Philip, and Apollinarius, and Melito, and Musanus, and Modestus, and, finally, Irenaeus. From them has come down to us in writing, the sound and orthodox faith received from tradition” (Church History 4:21).

IRENAEUS
“As I said before, the Church, having received this preaching and this faith, although she is disseminated throughout the whole world, yet guarded it, as if she occupied but one house. She likewise believes these things just as if she had but one soul and one and the same heart; and harmoniously she proclaims them and teaches them and hands them down, as if she possessed but one mouth. For, while the languages of the world are diverse, nevertheless, the authority of the tradition is one and the same” (Against Heresies 1:10:2 [A.D. 189]).

“That is why it is surely necessary to avoid them [heretics], while cherishing with the utmost diligence the things pertaining to the Church, and to lay hold of the tradition of truth. . . . What if the apostles had not in fact left writings to us? Would it not be necessary to follow the order of tradition, which was handed down to those to whom they entrusted the churches?” (ibid., 3:4:1).

…

“It is possible, then, for everyone in every church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the apostles which has been made known throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the apostles and their successors to our own times—men who neither knew nor taught anything like these heretics rave about.

“But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the successions of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles.

“With this church, because of its superior origin, all churches must agree—that is, all the faithful in the whole world—and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition” (ibid., 3:3:1–2).

There are ONLY 66 Books in the Holy Bible that are Inspired by God the Holy Spirit, and are The Word of God.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again SolaScriptures,

Jesus is the Son of God.

Then the Holy Bible, God's Infallible Word, is WRONG, and YOU are right!!!

Luke 1:34–35 (KJV): 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

John 1:14 (KJV): And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 10:36 (KJV): Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?


John 20:30–31 (KJV): 30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[donadams]

Greetings again JLB,

No, Jesus is the Son of God.

Kind regards
Trevor

What does son of God mean?
Is Jesus divine?
Is Jesus Lord?
Is Jesus God incarnate?
Is Jesus eternal?

Thanks

 

[donadams]

There are ONLY 66 Books in the Holy Bible that are Inspired by God the Holy Spirit, and are The Word of God.

Not according to scripture alone!
Show me a list of scripture in scripture that says 66 books with missing chapters!
The English bible society is not scripture and with no authority deleted many books and chapters like Dan 13 the beautiful faith story of Susana, you probably never read it

Tradition is required to approve scripture

Sacred tradition:

(Note: teaching authority of Christ in His apostolic church, not traditions, habits, customs etc.)

Sacred Tradition / apostolic tradition

Every word the apostles heard from the mouth of Christ and were commanded to teach to all men!

The truths revealed by Christ and commanded by Christ to be taught by the apostles to all men!

Matt 28:19 does NOT say: go and teach all men to observe “scripture alone”, it does Not say go write books and let the people make their own faith!

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Commanded to teach not to write “scripture alone”!

Commanded tradition not “scripture alone”!

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Apostolic tradition (doctrine) Not scripture alone”!

Nor is there more than one Christian faith revealed by Christ and taught by the apostolic church!
Eph 4:5

The Authority of the apostolic church is binds the conscience of every Christian to believe the Christian faith or the truths revealed by Christ and found in the creeds, didache, dogma’s and Decree’s of apostolic councils.

The apostles are commanded by Christ to teach tradition.

One revelation of Jesus Christ!
Word (Verbal)
and
Epistle (scripture)
2 thes 2:15



We are commanded by Christ to obey tradition. Matt 28:19-20
Tradition (oral teaching) or every word the apostles heard from the mouth of Christ.

Obedience of faith! Rom 16:26

And scripture supports tradition.

Example of tradition: 1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you…

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Only Christ has authority to establish the one true church and to send the apostles to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation, all sects are full of errors and the tradition of men devoid of grace, truth, and authority.


One mediator:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

On the level of justice Christ is the only mediator, obtaining atonement, grace, mercy, and salvation.

Anyone in the communion of saints can pray and intercede for those in need, and the apostles mediate between Christ and the church, the communion of saints. Matt 28:20

And the angels minister to those who will inherit salvation. Heb 1:14


Verses supporting Sacred tradition

Matt 28:19-20
Acts 1:2-8
Rom 16:26
1 cor 11:23
2 thes 2:15
(Partial)

Tradition is divine revelation from Christ
Both verbal and scripture
Both are tradition!
2 thes 2:15
Tradition / revelation
Either by word (verbal) or epistle (scripture)
So one cannot have more importance or be superior to the other

One revelation of Jesus Christ!
Tradition
Verbal or scripture


Revelation ended with the ascension of Christ. Jn 1:3

Only one faith (revelation) eph 4:5

Jn 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Jn 21:24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

Sola scriptura says:
Christ and most of the apostles wrote nothing, so they had No authority, no teaching!
Only those who wrote had authority!

Even if there was no scripture we would still have the truths revealed by God with Christ in His church with the guarantee of the Holy Spirit!

The apostolic church does not require scripture to know the truth, they were instructed by Christ (God) the truth itself (Jn 14:6) in person for three years, the church existed before the New Testament (not cannon til 381) the church exercised Her mission, power, and authority without scripture, to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

 

[donadams]

Acts 1:8 witness of the fathers

IRENAEUS
“As I said before, the Church, having received this preaching and this faith, although she is disseminated throughout the whole world, yet guarded it, as if she occupied but one house. She likewise believes these things just as if she had but one soul and one and the same heart; and harmoniously she proclaims them and teaches them and hands them down, as if she possessed but one mouth. For, while the languages of the world are diverse, nevertheless, the authority of the tradition is one and the same” (Against Heresies 1:10:2 [A.D. 189]).

“That is why it is surely necessary to avoid them [heretics], while cherishing with the utmost diligence the things pertaining to the Church, and to lay hold of the tradition of truth. . . . What if the apostles had not in fact left writings to us? Would it not be necessary to follow the order of tradition, which was handed down to those to whom they entrusted the churches?” (ibid., 3:4:1).

“It is possible, then, for everyone in every church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the apostles which has been made known throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the apostles and their successors to our own times—men who neither knew nor taught anything like these heretics rave about.

“But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the successions of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles.

“With this church, because of its superior origin, all churches must agree—that is, all the faithful in the whole world—and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition” (ibid., 3:3:1–2).

AUGUSTINE
“[T]he custom [of not rebaptizing converts] . . . may be supposed to have had its origin in apostolic tradition, just as there are many things which are observed by the whole Church, and therefore are fairly held to have been enjoined by the apostles, which yet are not mentioned in their writings” (On Baptism, Against the Donatists 5:23[31] [A.D. 400]).

“But the admonition that he [Cyprian] gives us, ‘that we should go back to the fountain, that is, to apostolic tradition, and thence turn the channel of truth to our times,’ is most excellent, and should be followed without hesitation” (ibid., 5:26[37]).

“But in regard to those observances which we carefully attend and which the whole world keeps, and which derive not from Scripture but from Tradition, we are given to understand that they are recommended and ordained to be kept, either by the apostles themselves or by plenary [ecumenical] councils, the authority of which is quite vital in the Church” (Letter to Januarius [A.D. 400]).

 

[GodsGrace]

Acts 1:8 witness of the fathers

IRENAEUS
“As I said before, the Church, having received this preaching and this faith, although she is disseminated throughout the whole world, yet guarded it, as if she occupied but one house. She likewise believes these things just as if she had but one soul and one and the same heart; and harmoniously she proclaims them and teaches them and hands them down, as if she possessed but one mouth. For, while the languages of the world are diverse, nevertheless, the authority of the tradition is one and the same” (Against Heresies 1:10:2 [A.D. 189]).

“That is why it is surely necessary to avoid them [heretics], while cherishing with the utmost diligence the things pertaining to the Church, and to lay hold of the tradition of truth. . . . What if the apostles had not in fact left writings to us? Would it not be necessary to follow the order of tradition, which was handed down to those to whom they entrusted the churches?” (ibid., 3:4:1).

“It is possible, then, for everyone in every church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the apostles which has been made known throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the apostles and their successors to our own times—men who neither knew nor taught anything like these heretics rave about.

“But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the successions of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles.

“With this church, because of its superior origin, all churches must agree—that is, all the faithful in the whole world—and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition” (ibid., 3:3:1–2).

AUGUSTINE
“[T]he custom [of not rebaptizing converts] . . . may be supposed to have had its origin in apostolic tradition, just as there are many things which are observed by the whole Church, and therefore are fairly held to have been enjoined by the apostles, which yet are not mentioned in their writings” (On Baptism, Against the Donatists 5:23[31] [A.D. 400]).

“But the admonition that he [Cyprian] gives us, ‘that we should go back to the fountain, that is, to apostolic tradition, and thence turn the channel of truth to our times,’ is most excellent, and should be followed without hesitation” (ibid., 5:26[37]).

“But in regard to those observances which we carefully attend and which the whole world keeps, and which derive not from Scripture but from Tradition, we are given to understand that they are recommended and ordained to be kept, either by the apostles themselves or by plenary [ecumenical] councils, the authority of which is quite vital in the Church” (Letter to Januarius [A.D. 400]).

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[donadams]

Sorry
Sola please go to the catholic forum thread sacred tradition to reply thanks