Water Baptism

[Titus]

I was only boldening my words to explain my stance for which the inquiry was made about from my quote.

The problem here is, Peter is asking them to get baptized and since they cannot baptized themselves with the Holy Ghost, I can only reasonably conclude that he is referring to water baptism in His name as that is something they can do as new believers and disciples in Jesus Christ's.

Are you talking about where peter had went to the house of cornelious .
IF so he was speaking of water baptism .
Cause peter had witnessed the actual Baptism of the HOLY GHOST fall upon them
and they had spoke with tongues , THEN HE DOES say is there water here
that they may also be baptized .
He even later expounds on this when meeting the apostels again
in chapter eleven and in fifteen . where james makes mention what peter
had told them earlier . chapter ten .
This may come as a suprise to most , but by grace i actually do and have loved
to read the bible . OFten i bring up scriptures but dont bring the actual verse .
And often folks dont recognize it as scripture cause many do not know their bibles .
BUT since recently it has been brought to me attention by another one
here , who i do love dearly , that i need to actually quoate scipture and verse
SO i will try and do this in the future .
In the mean time i invite folks to get back into Reading ONLY the bible
and not mens contemporary books on how to twist scripture , but let everyone
please read the bible for themselves .

 

[Titus]

I feel led to tell us all , FLEE anyone who teaches deconstruction , they are of the devil .

 

[Golgotha]

Are you talking about where peter had went to the house of cornelious .
IF so he was speaking of water baptism .
Cause peter had witnessed the actual Baptism of the HOLY GHOST fall upon them
and they had spoke with tongues , THEN HE DOES say is there water here
that they may also be baptized .
He even later expounds on this when meeting the apostels again
in chapter eleven and in fifteen . where james makes mention what peter
had told them earlier . chapter ten .
This may come as a suprise to most , but by grace i actually do and have loved
to read the bible . OFten i bring up scriptures but dont bring the actual verse .
And often folks dont recognize it as scripture cause many do not know their bibles .
BUT since recently it has been brought to me attention by another one
here , who i do love dearly , that i need to actually quoate scipture and verse
SO i will try and do this in the future .
In the mean time i invite folks to get back into Reading ONLY the bible
and not mens contemporary books on how to twist scripture , but let everyone
please read the bible for themselves .

This water baptism was in regards to new Jewish believers in Jesus Christ in Acts 2:38.

I was not referring to the event in Acts 10:43-48 regarding new Gentile believers in Jesus Christ when water baptism followed after their born again of the Spirit moment of salvation.

 

[Titus]

This water baptism was in regards to new Jewish believers in Jesus Christ in Acts 2:38.

I was not referring to the event in Acts 10:43-48 regarding new Gentile believers in Jesus Christ when water baptism followed after their born again of the Spirit moment of salvation.

Okay . i thought you may have been speaking of acts chapter ten .

 

[Golgotha]

Okay . i thought you may have been speaking of acts chapter ten .

I understand. Glad that the Lord helped me to clear that up for you.

 

[for_his_glory]

I was only boldening my words to explain my stance for which the inquiry was made about from my quote.

The problem here is, Peter is asking them to get baptized and since they cannot baptized themselves with the Holy Ghost, I can only reasonably conclude that he is referring to water baptism in His name as that is something they can do as new believers and disciples in Jesus Christ's.

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Again no mention of water, but to baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin and for receiving the Baptism of Christ which is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and fire. Fire means empowerment from the Holy Spirit. Other words, as they believed the words that Peter spoke (faith comes by hearing) they were then Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit as Peter continued to teach them.

There were 12 disciples that were gathered in the upper room at the third hour of the day (9AM) and who knows hour many hours they were there before Peter started his sermon, do you think they would have had the time to water baptize around 3000 people that day in water? That would have taken a long time.

 

[Golgotha]

Again no mention of water, but to baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin and for receiving the Baptism of Christ which is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and fire.

What form of baptism are you implying they can do? The baptism of the Holy Ghost?

Jesus does that when He has the Father send the Holy Spirit at their salvation moment when they come to and believe in Him.

Reread your reference again. Peter is not asking God to baptize them but asking the new believers to repent and to do what? Be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. It is after that Peter said they'd shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost at their salvation.

Peter is not saying it twice, right? Be baptized with the Holy Ghost and then ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost at their salvation?

So this was something new Jewish believers in Jesus Christ could do by being water baptized but it is by repenting from unbelief by believing in Him is how one receives the remission of sins, and they shall receive the baptism with the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Unless you are reading that to mean differently.. like.. the gift of the Holy Ghost as if inferring one of the gifts of the Spirit, then I have to disagree because Peter asking them to be baptized is not in their power to obtain but water baptism in His name is.

 

[for_his_glory]

I feel led to tell us all , FLEE anyone who teaches deconstruction , they are of the devil .

They are not necessarily of the devil, but only get it wrong at times like many of us do. Now, if they are not teachable then they will be held in judgement of following mans doctrines and not the doctrines of Christ who judges all things in heaven and on earth.

It's only those who Satan works through that have been deceived into believing his lies as they have no truth found in them. This is why it is so very important to test the spirits that speak to us so we know truth from error, 1 John 4:1-6.

2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[for_his_glory]

What form of baptism are you implying they can do? The baptism of the Holy Ghost?

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

When I read these scriptures I do not see the word water. John's water baptism was for remission of sin as in preparing oneself for the coming of the Lord. John said I must decrease so He can increase as now after the day od Pentecost when Jesus was taken up and the Holy Spirit came down we are now Baptized in Christ through the Spiritual rebirth where we then receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. There is nothing wrong with immersion in water, but it is nor for salvation and the receiving of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Golgotha]

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Are the disciples baptizing others with the Holy Ghost in Jesus's name? No.

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Is Peter telling potential new believers to baptize themselves with the Holy Ghost? No.

I do not believe either references is about the baptism with the Holy Ghost but water baptism to be done in Jesus's name.

When I read these scriptures I do not see the word water. John's water baptism was for remission of sin as in preparing oneself for the coming of the Lord. John said I must decrease so He can increase as now after the day od Pentecost when Jesus was taken up and the Holy Spirit came down we are now Baptized in Christ through the Spiritual rebirth where we then receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. There is nothing wrong with immersion in water, but it is nor for salvation and the receiving of the Holy Spirit.

When you realize who and how the baptism of the Holy Ghost comes about, it is not by the hands of His disciples nor in the hands of potential new believers, but water baptism is something they can do and obtain as new believers in Jesus Christ.

 

[Golgotha]

hawkman for_his_glory

Remember how Peter & John had to lift Simon's sight higher when he had thought he could but the power of the laying on of hands to give the Holy Ghost?

So no one should believe that any of His disciples were actually giving the Holy Ghost because they were not. This is God's work.

Acts 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. 20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. 21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. 23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. 24 Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

Finally, Simon's sight was lifted higher.

 

[Marvelloustime]

Are you talking about where peter had went to the house of cornelious .
IF so he was speaking of water baptism .
Cause peter had witnessed the actual Baptism of the HOLY GHOST fall upon them
and they had spoke with tongues , THEN HE DOES say is there water here
that they may also be baptized .
He even later expounds on this when meeting the apostels again
in chapter eleven and in fifteen . where james makes mention what peter
had told them earlier . chapter ten .
This may come as a suprise to most , but by grace i actually do and have loved
to read the bible . OFten i bring up scriptures but dont bring the actual verse .
And often folks dont recognize it as scripture cause many do not know their bibles .
BUT since recently it has been brought to me attention by another one
here , who i do love dearly , that i need to actually quoate scipture and verse
SO i will try and do this in the future .
In the mean time i invite folks to get back into Reading ONLY the bible
and not mens contemporary books on how to twist scripture , but let everyone
please read the bible for themselves .

I can confirm brother Titus does regularly include bible scriptures in his posts. But unless one knows the bible well, they could easily be missed because brother doesn’t always write the book, chapter and verse afterwards. This is because brother is not copying and pasting bible scripture. He is writing it from memory because he has spent such a long time reading the Bible, that he knows it well enough to embed scriptures into his posts.
Oh let the glorious Lord be praised.

 

[for_his_glory]

So no one should believe that any of His disciples were actually giving the Holy Ghost because they were not. This is God's work.

Of course it is God's work through the Disciples as well as all of us that are Christ's own. There is nothing of ourselves we can do without Christ working in us and through us.

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
John 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

 

[for_his_glory]

I can confirm brother Titus does regularly include bible scriptures in his posts. But unless one knows the bible well, they could easily be missed because brother doesn’t always write the book, chapter and verse afterwards. This is because brother is not copying and pasting bible scripture. He is writing it from memory because he has spent such a long time reading the Bible, that he knows it well enough to embed scriptures into his posts.
Oh let the glorious Lord be praised.

It does not matter if Titus knows the Bible word by word as we need the book, chapter and verse to be presented so everyone can go read them for ourselves. Without that it is only hear say.

 

[for_his_glory]

Are the disciples baptizing others with the Holy Ghost in Jesus's name? No.

Is Peter telling potential new believers to baptize themselves with the Holy Ghost? No.

I do not believe either references is about the baptism with the Holy Ghost but water baptism to be done in Jesus's name.

When you realize who and how the baptism of the Holy Ghost comes about, it is not by the hands of His disciples nor in the hands of potential new believers, but water baptism is something they can do and obtain as new believers in Jesus Christ.

It's when we quit reading into scripture words that are not there is when we begin to understand what has already been written.

Jesus gave to the commission to the disciples/we in Matthew 28:18-20, but also told them/we to wait until they/we are endued with power from on high, Luke 24:46-49. They/we have to be empowered by the Holy Spirit before we can do anything in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, Matthew 3:11, as we are nothing of ourselves.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[Golgotha]

Of course it is God's work through the Disciples as well as all of us that are Christ's own. There is nothing of ourselves we can do without Christ working in us and through us.

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
John 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

May the Lord help you spot this because sometimes members might say they can give the Holy Ghost as leaders in the church by the laying on of their hands. It is a wonder how if tongues for private use was by the Holy Spirit, why is the Holy Spirit procrastinating so long in correcting them ad it seems He hasn't yet?

So I agree with you that nobody actually gives the Holy Ghost to anyone as that is God's work.

I was with a pastor that was working at the local Wal-Mart that I was working at & at lunch time, he was telling me how Catholics were going to hell. I said there is such a thing as a Charismatic Catholic Church and they speak in tongues. Then that pastor changed his tune and said that maybe they are saved. Not funny how he used tongues as a sign or proof that someone is saved.

This same pastor was telling me about a book that was informing him that there were 3 baptisms with the Holy Ghost, and then he proceeded to tell me that he believes there are five baptism with the Holy Spirit. He seemed to look at me as if watching for a response to swoon or marveled or something. I was not moved at all.

The daughter of that pastor was complaining to me one day how her dad had arranged for a blue room separated from the main assembly where believers could go to where no noise or distraction will get in the way of them receiving the Spirit.

Can we say new age methodology? Indeed, another church had a pastor defending the holy laughter movement in his church just Sunday prior. After several testimonies form young people about their supernatural experiences ( not involving uncontrollable laughter) the pastor concluded from the pulpit that he does not know what the Holy Spirit is doing but he was going to go along with it. Then he was prepping believers that man must move out of the way and the Holy Spirit will move in. How is that for another new age methodology?

Scripture says there is only one baptism per one hope of our calling for how we were all baptized into that one body by 1 Corinthians 12:13 & Ephesians 4:4-6

So that is why I speak against another baptism with the Holy Ghost for anything.

And a side note, I believe baptism in Ephesians 4:4-6 is about the baptism with the Holy Ghost as tying in with the one hope of our calling, rather than water baptism.

 

[Golgotha]

It's when we quit reading into scripture words that are not there is when we begin to understand what has already been written.

But to preach another filling of the Holy Spirit for anything else is going against scripture for how believers are injecting their experiences into scripture.

Jesus gave to the commission to the disciples/we in Matthew 28:18-20, but also told them/we to wait until they/we are endued with power from on high, Luke 24:46-49. They/we have to be empowered by the Holy Spirit before we can do anything in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, Matthew 3:11, as we are nothing of ourselves.

John 1:12-13 has that power received for all those who even believe in Him for salvation. It is not a separate event from salvation. So His disciples were officially saved at Pentecost and not before, because Jesus was still with them for when that promise was to be sent from the Father in Jesus's name. John 14:25-26

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Pertaining to the Book of Revelation only, until the time appointed to quote from it which is now, hoping in Him not to add words to that actual Book of Revelation or taking any words out of that Book. That does not go to applying His words from that Book of Revelation.

As for messages from scripture, a believer can say the truth from scripture just as long as there are no scripture opposing what he applied that scripture to mean as truth, otherwise he is not rightly dividing the word of truth and may be a false teaching.

We all get corrected by the Lord to bear more fruit John 15:1-2 but it is when we refuse correction is why we are at risk of not bearing more fruit.

 

[WIP]

I must apologize. I forgot which forum this thread is in. The Questions and Answer forum is not for debating but rather we need to focus on answering the OP's questions. After six pages it is now a moot point so I think I am going to move this thread to the Theology forum. I will inform the OP of this change.

 

[hawkman]

It's when we quit reading into scripture words that are not there is when we begin to understand what has already been written.

Amen !

As for messages from scripture, a believer can say the truth from scripture just as long as there are no scripture opposing what he applied that scripture to mean as truth, otherwise he is not rightly dividing the word of truth and may be a false teaching.

We all get corrected by the Lord to bear more fruit John 15:1-2 but it is when we refuse correction is why we are at risk of not bearing more fruit.

Do not add to the Word of God ! Don't you agree Golgotha ?

Proverbs 30

5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

 

[GodsGrace]

for_his_glory & wondering

This post was for Hopeful but I'm glad you tagged me in and also for_his_glory .

Before I even start to read the following, I'd like to say that I agree with WIP on baptism...I think we need to decide whether baptism is just a sign...JUST a sign...
or if it's something real that Jesus told us to do for a reason.

I hear that baptism is a sign, probably for others, of an inner change.
I do believe that if we're born again Christians, there must be other signs of this change in us. Few are they that might be at a baptism,,,but many are they that will be witness of our life.

For instance, I think going to church is a better witness of our faith than getting dunked One time. I think doing good deeds when we wear a cross around our neck is a better witness for Christ than getting dunked One time.

But what is the reason why we're baptized?
Let me read ahead...maybe it's been covered.

There is only one gospel for why this same Peter said this to the Gentiles clearly on how to receive the remission of sins by believing in Jesus Christ.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

This had happened before water baptism.

One could ask why but in truth, in regards to the Jews, they may be under the water baptism of the Pharisees' as being a disciple of the Pharisees' or under the water baptism of John the Baptist's in being a disciple of John the Baptist's.

When we become believers we are justified by an action of God and we become saved and our past sins are forgiven.

John baptized for the remission of sins, but the New Covenant had not been established yet, and wouldn't be until Jesus died. A testament is valid only upon the death of the testator.

John said that one would come after him that would baptize with fire and the Holy Spirit. It seems to me that this would be the reason for baptism. Jesus told the Apostles to wait in Jerusalem to receive the Holy Spirit.
Acts 1:5, 8

Verse 8 says that the Apostles had to wait to receive power when the Holy Spirit fell upon them.

This was also an act of God.
After the time of the Apostles, baptism was in the name of Jesus...
It was for the forgiveness of sin and it was for empowerment.

John's baptism was what many call a "sign".
It was a sign of repentence.
Matthew 3:11

I'd say that Jesus' baptism was for empowerment.
We are forgiven at salvation and justification...
We are empowered when baptized.

Mark 2:18 And the disciples of John and of the Pharisees used to fast: and they come and say unto him, Why do the disciples of John and of the Pharisees fast, but thy disciples fast not?

So in that regard, water baptism in Jesus's name is required as a public witness that they are believers in Jesus Christ and by that water baptism in Jesus's name, they are now disciples of Jesus Christ, but the remission of sins is the same for the Jews as it is for the Gentiles by believing in Jesus Christ since Peter was referring to the promise in the scriptures by all the prophets that had witnessed to this in Acts 10:43.

As stated above, I DO believe baptism is more than just a sign.
You stated Acts 10:43, which states that everyone who believes in Jesus receives forgiveness of sins.

But Acts 2:38 tells us that everyone that is baptized in the name of Jesus received forgiveness of sins and receives the gift of the Holy Spirit.

I believe baptism is more than just a sign to show that one is a follower of Jesus.

Calling on the name of the Lord or believing in Jesus Christ is the same thing for why his sins were actually washed away. One has to discern between "rise up and be water baptized" and the "calling on the name of the Lord" for how the sins are actually washed away by. Since there is only one gospel,

"whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."

Scripturally, yes, they do but because scripture cannot go against scripture and there is only one gospel for why Paul testify that he has the right hand of fellowship with His disciples, then only one of us is rightly dividing the word of truth here but only Jesus can help us see that truth.

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

BTW in case you misread "committed" verse 7, commit does not always mean "I will do it" by a bondage like a commitment which is (evil) but "entrust" as in "He will do it" since it can be defined as rolling the burden over "to Another" in the Bible.

Biblical Definition & Usage of Commit

Anyway, since Paul declared that there is only one gospel, here is no way he could have the right hand of fellowship with James, Cephas ( Peter ), and John unless they were speaking the same thing, and since it was the same Peter that spoke in Acts 2 to the Jews as the same Peter that had spoken to the Gentiles, is why discernment is needed here because there is only one gospel.

When it comes to water baptism, in light of the gospel preached by Peter in being the same to the Gentiles as it is to the Jews, it is not required for salvation, but it is required for new believers in being known publicly as now His disciples.

I used to believe this myself.
But, so, you're baptized by your church and the members may be present, or most of them. So they know you are a disciple of Jesus.

Wouldn't they know it anyway?
And what about all those that do not see you being baptized?