Water Baptism

[Golgotha]

Of course the receving of the Holy Spirit comes at the time of our Spiritual rebirth when we are then baptized into Christ baptism confessing Him as Lord and Savior. Water has nothing to do with our salvation as I have already explained that.

Yes you did and I agree as long as we are on the same page that the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth was done at the calling of the gospel and no other time as that is the tradition taught of us per 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15

To be born again of the Spirit is the salvation moment. There is no other filling.

My question to you is, Where is it written in scripture about the Pharisee's water baltism as I never heard of that before?

I have not either but there are disciples of the Pharisees. There may not be any water baptism involved, but I do not know why Paul had asked the question if there was only one other baptism for those disciples to be under in Acts 19:1-7 which as it turned out, they were disciples of John the Baptist.

Luke 5:33And they said unto him, Why do the disciples of John fast often, and make prayers, and likewise the disciples of the Pharisees; but thine eat and drink?

One more question, you said "water baptism in Jesus's name is required as a public witness that they are believers in Jesus Christ". What about those who confess Jesus as Lord and Savior, John 3:5-7; Romans 10:9-10, but incapable of being immersed in water. Have they no public witness?

I was referring to what had happened in Acts 2 regarding Jewish believers in Jesus Christ since other Jews there may know them and witness their public conversion.

As for those references, I agree that any one who believes in Jesus Christ are saved..

 

[Golgotha]

Um, the parable of the rich man and Lazarus was not literal, nor did Saul speak to Samuel.

I do not agree.

1 Samuel 28:12-20 this women used a familar spirit that took on the form of Samuel as this is why the scripture says Samuel spoke. Look closely at vs. 14, Saul ask what form is he of and the women describe the form and Saul stooped with his face to the ground and bowed himself before the form, not actually seeing it, but only perceiving it was Samuel. The familiar spirit only spoke of things that Saul already knew about God being quiet and why He was quiet toward Saul. The familiar spirit never gave Saul an answer of what he should do. Then the familiar spirit proceeded to tell Saul what was about to happen to him and his sons that they would be in the ground from whence the familiar spirit came from.

I understand your point of view, but what Samuel has said as that prophet, came true.

Saul is now in his grave waiting that of the lake of fire as his name is not written in the Lambs book of life, but will face Gods judgement for being an abomination to God. God rejected Saul for his disobedience against Him.

1 Chronicles 10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;
1 Chronicles 10:14 And enquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.

It did not say he went to the lake of fire. Not even hell. Just that he died.

These parables of Jesus began in Luke 10:25 when a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? From that point moving forward Jesus gave 15 parables, meaning illustrations, beginning in Luke chapter 10-16 that all pertain to what we are to do in order to receive eternal life.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance: Hell
Hebrew # 7585 Sheol, Hades, or the world of the dead, grave, hell, pit
Greek # 86 place of departed souls, grave, hell

The English word hell, back in 1611, meant about the same as Hades, that being covered or unseen as in grave/pit. We do not see those in the grave as they are unseen to the eye as they are covered with dirt, or some placed in a tomb. The word hell is derived from the Saxon helan, to cover, and signifying merely the covered, or invisible place. The habitation of those who have gone from the visible terrestrial region to the world of spirits.

Also Hopeful I think I was telling you about a mistake in Strong's Concordance but not sure.

Now I remember how Strong's Concordance got it wrong and that was on Gehenna being the lake of fire and yet it acknowledged that it was on earth for how Jesus referenced it. If Jesus referenced hell on earth, then that is where that hell is that believers get cut off and cast into as in left behind when that fiery calamity hits a third of the earth Revelation 8:7 that sets up the rest of the world for that mark of the beast system to buy & sell to pool & evenly distribute resources to survive in the great tribulation.

Matthew 5:30 & Matthew 18:8 & Mark 9:43 all uses gehenna or geena from which hell or everlasting fire was derived from to English. This hell as in this fire is on earth and there will be corpses left unburied in this burning like Gehenna. Revelation 18:1-24 So the message can be lost in English. If Jesus referred to a place on earth, then He is testifying to a hellfire coming on the earth. Luke 12:40-49

Strong's Concordance got it wrong.

Abraham's bosom just refers to a place of comfort where the righteous dead wait in their grave until judgement day when at that time they will spend eternal life with the Father, John 5:28, 29. Jesus was raised from the dead, but still many were not persuaded to accept Him as Lord and Savior as they refused the teachings of the Apostles, even today unto the end of days.

Jesus said to the thief on the cross that he will be with Him in paradise that day. That doesn't sound like he was waiting in the grave to me. And since He descended first and had to resurrect before ascending, then Paradise is Abraham's bosom for why after His ascension, Paradise is now located in Heaven.

The description of the clothing of the High Priest is found in Exodus 28 and 38:1-31. In the NT scribes were of the same sect of the Pharisees and would also be arrayed in purple and fine linen with miters on their heads. There were also a subordinate class of scribes, most of whom were Levites

The rich man in this parable is symbolic of the Mosaic experts (Lawyers) in which Jesus characterizes and condemns them and the Pharisees in Matthew 23:1-36 and Luke 11:37-54.

Luke 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

All these parables in Matthew, Mark and Luke are all about what we have to do to inherit eternal life. Lazarus in this parable represents those in whom we are to reach out to as in what Jesus said in Matthew 25:31-46 about the sheep and the goats as some will inherit eternal life while others will go away into ever lasting punishment and be remembered no more by God, John 5:28, 29.

That is not what I read there per your reference.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

There are vessels unto honor in His House that departed from iniquity received by the Bridegroom when He appears which is before the great tribulation and then there are vessels unto dishonor in His House that did not depart from iniquity for why I see that as referring to the resurrection of damnation as Christ's a His coming which is after the great tribulation. 2 Timothy 2:18-21 & Matthew 5:19

Darkness (lake of fire) and light (the New Jerusalem) are separate from each other as no one in either place can see each other.

I do not believe the story of the rich man & the beggar named Lazarus applies to that.

All former things are passed away and we will not have any recognition of things of this present earth including family and friends that rejected Christ and will be in a place of outer darkness and gnashing of teeth as they are cast into the lake of fire, Isaiah 65:17-25; Rev 21:1-8, Matthew 8:12; 22:13; Luke 20:34-38.

I believe the gnashing of teeth can very well be about saved but carnal believers and former believers being cast to the earth for when that hell comes on earth.

I am not saying that unbelievers are not going to hell and the lake of fire, because they are, but judgment will come on the House of God first 1 Peter 4:17 for why that day is how Jesus Christ will judge the saints per 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 & Revelations 2 :18-25

 

[WIP]

A symbol to other's that you have been made clean by the washing of the blood of Christ. Is there any saving provisions in the water or are we saved by God's free gift of faith in Christ Jesus.

Then why did the eunuch insist on being baptized? There were no witnesses to see it. I believe there is more going on than just symbolism. I believe the Word plays a vital role and that is evident in Jesus' command to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

 

[eddif]

Then why did the eunuch insist on being baptized? There were no witnesses to see it. I believe there is more going on than just symbolism. I believe the Word plays a vital role and that is evident in Jesus' command to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Probably
As a symbol to the eunuch as well as to men and perhaps even to God.
Baptized because he believed Jesus is the son of God.

The eunuch was reading a scripture that was somewhat cryptic. He got a more physical symbol of a spiritual experience.

A physical seed expresses the Word Of God
A Christian wears a fish symbol

Metaphysical has a physical and beyond physical side.

In one sense it makes little difference on which side you enter the discussion. Both sides carry the same message.

Immersion in thought and belief are symbolized by immersion in water.

Then what can a backwoods redneck with a newfangled smart phone possibly know

eddif

 

[eddif]

Probably
As a symbol to the eunuch as well as to men and perhaps even to God.
Baptized because he believed Jesus is the son of God.

The eunuch was reading a scripture that was somewhat cryptic. He got a more physical symbol of a spiritual experience.

A physical seed expresses the Word Of God
A Christian wears a fish symbol

Metaphysical has a physical and beyond physical side.

In one sense it makes little difference on which side you enter the discussion. Both sides carry the same message.

Immersion in thought and belief are symbolized by immersion in water.

Then what can a backwoods redneck with a newfangled smart phone possibly know

eddif

Acts 8:32 kjv
32. The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33. In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34. And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

The whole passage really needs to be studied.

eddif

 

[Golgotha]

Then why did the eunuch insist on being baptized? There were no witnesses to see it. I believe there is more going on than just symbolism. I believe the Word plays a vital role and that is evident in Jesus' command to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

As for witnesses to the Jews in being a new believer & a disciple of Jesus Christ, thus changing his status in the eyes of the Jews, both those who believe in Jesus Christ and those who still did not, he had no need for that public testimony.

However, since he was travelling from Ethiopia and inquiring the scripture for why God sent Philip to help that eunuch, it was his zeal in becoming His disciple after believing in Him. Indeed, before that water baptism, Philip had asked him if he believed in Jesus Christ just to clarify his zeal before water baptizing him since the Samaritans & Simon the sorcerer, had earlier in their zeal out of fanfare of Philip, were being water baptized in Jesus's name for that reason for why they were not born again of the Spirit yet.

Their sights as well as even Simon's sight, had to be lifted higher from His disciples to Jesus in coming to Him in believing in Him for that born again of the Spirit of their actual salvation moment. So that proves water baptism has nothing to do with salvation, but is a requirement, a first step, for new believers in becoming His disciples.

 

[for_his_glory]

Then why did the eunuch insist on being baptized? There were no witnesses to see it. I believe there is more going on than just symbolism. I believe the Word plays a vital role and that is evident in Jesus' command to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

I would have to say that Philip was possibly the only witness as he baptized the eunuch, but yet the eunuch already confessed Christ before he was immersed in water.

 

[for_his_glory]

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

If you compare John 3:5 with 1 John 5:5-8 water means word as in the word being the living water (John 4:9-15) as in the Father, the word (living water Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. The three that bear witness is Holy Spirit, Gods living word, and the blood of Jesus who made atonement for sin that we can be reconciled back to the Father.

Everything from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 is all Gods word and Holy Spirit dwelling in or falling on and come to Earth in the form of a man in Christ Jesus. It's all Gods grace freely given to all who will believe in that faith that is Christ Jesus as He spoke Gods word (John 12:44-50 living water) and the Prophets and Apostles wrote and testified of what Jesus taught verbally.

It's Gods word that we are made righteous through Him, sanctified, justified and made Holy before Him. No dirty river water can save us, but is only an outward appearance to others that we have been washed clean (made righteous before God) by the blood of the Lamb and the renewing through the Holy Spirit.

The Jerusalem Bible
1 John 5:6 Jesus Christ who came by water and blood, not with water only, but with water and blood with the Spirit as another witness since the Spirit is truth 7 so that there are three witnesses, 8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood and all three of them agree

KJV
1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Literal water has nothing to do with salvation as Jesus came by the foretold word of the Prophets, sent by the Father, and signified by the Holy Spirit that lighted upon Him during John's water baptism for the remission of sins, Matthew 3:11-17. Three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, the water (word) and the blood. Three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost.

The more I think about "born again" Nicodemus had no understanding as even many today would ask the same question "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"

Jesus goes on to tell him "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Paul understood it was not by water baptism (BTW baptism is not mentioned in John 3:5), but by the word of God that we are sanctified, which means set apart and made holy. We being the church of God have been made clean by His word as we are washed in the blood of the Lamb.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Again Paul and also Peter gives us the understanding that being born again/born from above is not by actual water which would be a work of our own righteousness, but regeneration (new Spiritual life) that comes by God's mercy through His spoken word and Spirit (Holy Spirit).

IMO it doesn't matter if we say born again or born from above, but that we understand it is by God's grace through faith, which is Christ Jesus and His finished works on the cross that we are cleansed by the blood of the Lamb and our spirit renewed by the very Spirit of God, (Holy Spirit)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Per the conversation Nicodemus and Jesus were discussing in John 3:9, 10 here are a few more OT verses that parallel being born again that Nicodemus should have known, but probably not emphasized as much since Jesus had to explain it to him.

1 Samuel 10:6 And the spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.

Job 15:14 What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?

Job 25: 4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: 20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

There are around 1526 instances of living water in the Bible. Here are some verses on living water being the word. John 4:4-26; 7:37-39; 12:44-50; Ephesians 5:26; 1 John 5:5-8; Jeremiah 17:13; Zechariah 14:8, 9; Rev 21:6-8; Ezekiel 47:22

 

[Golgotha]

Everything from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 is all Gods word and Holy Spirit dwelling in or falling on and come to Earth in the form of a man in Christ Jesus.

Not sure if you meant to say that but Jesus Christ had existed in a celestial form before His incarnation so for the Holy Spirit to come to earth in the form of a man in Christ Jesus would have Jesus never referring to the Holy Spirit at all if He was that Holy Spirit.

Jesus said scriptures testifies of Himself for seekers to come to Him for life and that Moses had written about Him. John 5:39-47

Jesus testified that Abraham had seen Him back in his day John 8:56-59 and He ate and drank with him. Genesis 18:1-19

The Lord had appeared to Abraham in Genesis 12:7 & Genesis 17:1 and not just in Genesis 18:1. The Lord also appeared to Isaac in Genesis 26:1-2 & again in Genesis 26:24. The Lord had appeared unto Jacob and wrestled with him as Jacob testified that he had seen God and lived in Genesis 32:24-30 So Moses had written about Jesus before He became incarnated as the prophesied Son of man to give His life as a ransom for many.

So the Holy Spirit did not become Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was conceived by the Holy Ghost in the virgin Mary's womb, but that is hardly the Holy Ghost becoming Jesus Christ.

So that is why I am asking for clarity because of the truth in His words above.

 

[for_his_glory]

I do not agree.

I understand your point of view, but what Samuel has said as that prophet, came true.

It did not say he went to the lake of fire. Not even hell. Just that he died.

Also Hopeful I think I was telling you about a mistake in Strong's Concordance but not sure.

Now I remember how Strong's Concordance got it wrong and that was on Gehenna being the lake of fire and yet it acknowledged that it was on earth for how Jesus referenced it. If Jesus referenced hell on earth, then that is where that hell is that believers get cut off and cast into as in left behind when that fiery calamity hits a third of the earth Revelation 8:7 that sets up the rest of the world for that mark of the beast system to buy & sell to pool & evenly distribute resources to survive in the great tribulation.

Matthew 5:30 & Matthew 18:8 & Mark 9:43 all uses gehenna or geena from which hell or everlasting fire was derived from to English. This hell as in this fire is on earth and there will be corpses left unburied in this burning like Gehenna. Revelation 18:1-24 So the message can be lost in English. If Jesus referred to a place on earth, then He is testifying to a hellfire coming on the earth. Luke 12:40-49

Strong's Concordance got it wrong.

Jesus said to the thief on the cross that he will be with Him in paradise that day. That doesn't sound like he was waiting in the grave to me. And since He descended first and had to resurrect before ascending, then Paradise is Abraham's bosom for why after His ascension, Paradise is now located in Heaven.

That is not what I read there per your reference.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

There are vessels unto honor in His House that departed from iniquity received by the Bridegroom when He appears which is before the great tribulation and then there are vessels unto dishonor in His House that did not depart from iniquity for why I see that as referring to the resurrection of damnation as Christ's a His coming which is after the great tribulation. 2 Timothy 2:18-21 & Matthew 5:19

I do not believe the story of the rich man & the beggar named Lazarus applies to that.

I believe the gnashing of teeth can very well be about saved but carnal believers and former believers being cast to the earth for when that hell comes on earth.

I am not saying that unbelievers are not going to hell and the lake of fire, because they are, but judgment will come on the House of God first 1 Peter 4:17 for why that day is how Jesus Christ will judge the saints per 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 & Revelations 2 :18-25

It's OK if you disagree as these are things we need to deeply study for ourselves separate from what man teaches.

I never said that Saul went to the lake of fire as that does not happen until God's final judgement and the books are opened, Rev 20:11-15.

As far as discussing Saul, hell, the parable of the rich man and Lazarus and the lake of fire it would derail this thread being off topic. If you would like to make a new thread on all of that please do and tag me into it.

 

[Golgotha]

It's OK if you disagree as these are things we need to deeply study for ourselves separate from what man teaches.

I never said that Saul went to the lake of fire as that does not happen until God's final judgement and the books are opened, Rev 20:11-15.

As far as discussing Saul, hell, the parable of the rich man and Lazarus and the lake of fire it would derail this thread being off topic. If you would like to make a new thread on all of that please do and tag me into it.

Okay, but I am at a loss as to where to begin with all of those topics being broad and various as they are. God be willing, He shall find a way for me to begin & tag you to it.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes you did and I agree as long as we are on the same page that the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth was done at the calling of the gospel and no other time as that is the tradition taught of us per 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15

To be born again of the Spirit is the salvation moment. There is no other filling.

I have not either but there are disciples of the Pharisees. There may not be any water baptism involved, but I do not know why Paul had asked the question if there was only one other baptism for those disciples to be under in Acts 19:1-7 which as it turned out, they were disciples of John the Baptist.

Luke 5:33And they said unto him, Why do the disciples of John fast often, and make prayers, and likewise the disciples of the Pharisees; but thine eat and drink?

I was referring to what had happened in Acts 2 regarding Jewish believers in Jesus Christ since other Jews there may know them and witness their public conversion.

As for those references, I agree that any one who believes in Jesus Christ are saved..

I think we are on the same page as faith comes by hearing the word of God then we confess Christ and are Spiritually born again. As far as traditional teachings I stay away from them, just as I stay away from the various doctrines of religion as I oly accept the pure doctrines of Christ for what He has already taught.

If you never heard of the Pharisees water baptism then why did you say there was one in your post #66 as you said and I quote: "One could ask why but in truth, in regards to the Jews, they may be under the water baptism of the Pharisees' as being a disciple of the Pharisees' or under the water baptism of John the Baptist's in being a disciple of John the Baptist's.

As far as disciples of the Pharisees they still exist today and fall under the seven woes that Christ speaks against them, Matthew 23:1-36.

You said in post #66 and I quote: "water baptism in Jesus's name is required as a public witness that they are believers in Jesus Christ". Please show me in Acts 2 where it uses the words water baptized?

 

[for_his_glory]

Not sure if you meant to say that but Jesus Christ had existed in a celestial form before His incarnation so for the Holy Spirit to come to earth in the form of a man in Christ Jesus would have Jesus never referring to the Holy Spirit at all if He was that Holy Spirit.

I should have worded that better as I meant that Jesus is the word of God sent down to earth as per John 1:14.

 

[eddif]

Everything from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 is all Gods word and Holy Spirit dwelling in or falling on and come to Earth in the form of a man in Christ Jesus. It's all Gods grace freely given to all who will believe in that faith that is Christ Jesus as He spoke Gods word (John 12:44-50 living water) and the Prophets and Apostles wrote and testified of what Jesus taught verbally.

Personally it sounds ok to me. I mess up punctuation so bad I just try and unwind things the best I can. I go back and see question marks left out, commas where semi colons should maybe be.
……..
From Genesis to Revelation is Gods word.
Gods word became flesh-Jesus.

The Holy Spirit was at creation on and in things all through the Bible.

The Holy Spirit was involved in the birth of Jesus.

Gods grace ( I sure hope ) coverers punctuation errors, failing vision, auto correction changes, even maybe sin
(oh I know if we confess it).

We do not fight against flesh and blood.
We help hold up the arms of people (like Moses in the middle of spiritual battle).

eddif

 

[for_his_glory]

Okay, but I am at a loss as to where to begin with all of those topics being broad and various as they are. God be willing, He shall find a way for me to begin & tag you to it.

See, this shows me we need not speak of things we know nothing about, except for hear say only. You are not obligated to make any new topics on those things unless you would want to.

 

[Golgotha]

I think we are on the same page as faith comes by hearing the word of God then we confess Christ and are Spiritually born again. As far as traditional teachings I stay away from them, just as I stay away from the various doctrines of religion as I oly accept the pure doctrines of Christ for what He has already taught.

Even then, we are to trust Jesus to prune us in case we missed something.

If you never heard of the Pharisees water baptism then why did you say there was one in your post #66 as you said and I quote: "One could ask why but in truth, in regards to the Jews, they may be under the water baptism of the Pharisees' as being a disciple of the Pharisees' or under the water baptism of John the Baptist's in being a disciple of John the Baptist's.

I bolden the word "may be" as it is a speculation as to what water baptism they were under. Since I cannot provide any scripture to water baptism for the Pharisees in how they are identified as disciples of the Pharisees, but just for John the Baptist's and yet I did also speculated that because Paul did not know what kind of disciples they were for why he had asked what water baptism they were under. My reasoning was that if there was only one other water baptism, why not ask them directly that? But it is not definitive for why I speculated.

However on looking for some obscure practice in the O.T. just now, I did find this reference in the N.T.

John 1:24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees. 25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?

If the Pharisees had asked that, then I can conclude that there was no water baptism for the Pharisees even though there are disciples of the Pharisees. Otherwise, John could turn the question around to them, right? So I learned something new today.

As far as disciples of the Pharisees they still exist today and fall under the seven woes that Christ speaks against them, Matthew 23:1-36.

Sometimes that describe the churches and the pastors in their robes and chief seats.

You said in post #66 and I quote: "water baptism in Jesus's name is required as a public witness that they are believers in Jesus Christ". Please show me in Acts 2 where it uses the words water baptized?

It is generally understood since the call was for them to do that; be baptized in His name; hence water baptism in His name.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Golgotha]

See, this shows me we need not speak of things we know nothing about, except for hear say only. You are not obligated to make any new topics on those things unless you would want to.

It's all part of growing up in Christ.

1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity

Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

 

[for_his_glory]

Even then, we are to trust Jesus to prune us in case we missed something.

I bolden the word "may be" as it is a speculation as to what water baptism they were under. Since I cannot provide any scripture to water baptism for the Pharisees in how they are identified as disciples of the Pharisees, but just for John the Baptist's and yet I did also speculated that because Paul did not know what kind of disciples they were for why he had asked what water baptism they were under. My reasoning was that if there was only one other water baptism, why not ask them directly that? But it is not definitive for why I speculated.

However on looking for some obscure practice in the O.T. just now, I did find this reference in the N.T.

John 1:24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees. 25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?

If the Pharisees had asked that, then I can conclude that there was no water baptism for the Pharisees even though there are disciples of the Pharisees. Otherwise, John could turn the question around to them, right? So I learned something new today.

Sometimes that describe the churches and the pastors in their robes and chief seats.

It is generally understood since the call was for them to do that; be baptized in His name; hence water baptism in His name.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Please do not bold parts of what others have said as it makes it look like they are putting emphasis on something they are not.

It's not good to speculate, but better to say IMO as that shows that one really doesn't know for sure and only giving their view. As far as the Pharisees we also see them in the congregation of mans religion.

Still again, the word water is not mentioned in Acts 2:38, so we can not add to that which is not there. There are two baptisms as John's was for the remission of sin, "prepare ye the way of the Lord". John the Baptist also said I must decrease so He can increase as He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire, John 3:30-31; Matthew 3:11. Actual water does not bring about the Holy Spirit and fire (power).

 

[for_his_glory]

It's all part of growing up in Christ.

Not only growing up in Christ, but also putting away foolish traditional teachings allowing the Holy Spirit teach us in all truths.

 

[Golgotha]

Please do not bold parts of what others have said as it makes it look like they are putting emphasis on something they are not.

I was only boldening my words to explain my stance for which the inquiry was made about from my quote.

It's not good to speculate, but better to say IMO as that shows that one really doesn't know for sure and only giving their view. As far as the Pharisees we also see them in the congregation of mans religion.

Still again, the word water is not mentioned in Acts 2:38, so we can not add to that which is not there. There are two baptisms as John's was for the remission of sin, "prepare ye the way of the Lord". John the Baptist also said I must decrease so He can increase as He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire, John 3:30-31; Matthew 3:11. Actual water does not bring about the Holy Spirit and fire (power).

The problem here is, Peter is asking them to get baptized and since they cannot baptized themselves with the Holy Ghost, I can only reasonably conclude that he is referring to water baptism in His name as that is something they can do as new believers and disciples in Jesus Christ's.