We are not saved by faith alone as Martin Luther inferred..... here is the Biblical evidence

[GodsGrace]

Yeah I know what you mean,though unfortunately I still have yet to have an opportunity to give the idea a try,my bond has always been with kids,(kids from 5 to about 9 years old)they can get me cheerful immediately no matter how glum I might feel and get me wanting to talk silly and I feel passionately about standing up for kids both physically and spiritually,because I remember how messed up my child hood was and would like kids to have a better life than I had and be able to learn of the bible without all the forcive hell doctrine junk,because children shouldn't have to endure that,God attests for them until they are accountable of sin,and shouldn't be subjected to evilness.

Seems like we all suffered in our childhood.
You explain concepts really well...the kids who get you will be lucky.
I liked the older ones...10 - 12.
Younger ones don't get concepts too well but only facts.

 

[Creative]

What sin revokes God's grace from the redeemed in the hand of Christ?

There are probably a few but here is one:

“There will always be temptations to sin, but what sorrow awaits the person who does the tempting! It would be better to be thrown into the sea with a millstone hung around your neck than to cause one of these little ones to fall into sin. So watch yourselves!" - JESUS

 

[GodsGrace]

Yeah the issue is that people may believe that they don't have to serve God and just believe that Jesus existed,we are saved only by Accepting Jesus as saviour but it isn't our end working for God it is our beginning,because it's tough enough just to "Believe wholly" concerning all Jesus did,but it's evident in what fruit we bring forth just if we were sincere with God/Jesus for example,say you declare to God that you believe in Jesus and want salvation but then thereafter you go and kill someone immediately,well that is a case of not being sincere and humble with God and using Jesus as a shield to justify an action,and therefore are not saved,for God finds it an abomination all who are quick to shed blood,there in lies the difference,A true believer would seek to help their neighbor instead of hurt them,where as a an unbeliever/pretender is only seeking Jesus in the hopes to do what they want and therefore though they acknowledge Jesus,they are not saved,just as legion in the bible those demons "feared" Jesus but did not Believe wholly upon him nor did they "seek to serve him" they merely begged for their live.
"Believe" is a word tossed around as something that is just "so easy" it isn't,John 3:15 and John 3:16 both state nearly the same thing,"Believe and have everlasting life" and people flock to them like a moth to a flame because they think that to "Believe" is just to acknowledge and claim Jesus,but it's not,It's about Loving God just as he loved us and accepted all Jesus did for us,not just act like that we all can go to heaven because of our denominations or ceremonies after all since when is God a respector to persons?
Jesus even made the law simpler and yet many people still don't grasp what he meant,he said "Love thy God with all thy heart,soul,mind,and strength" this is the greatest commandment and the second is like unto it"Love thy neighbor as yourself" upon these two hang all the commandments and prophets.
The underlieing point being,Do all you can for God whilst loving him and sharing that love with one another,yet even this people mess up,saying well I can love Jesus the man,or,I can do whatever ungodly thing I want so long as I "Say" I love God/Jesus,deluding themselves,You either are all for God and accept his son humbly,sincerely,and with love,or you are a liar and the truth isn't in you and are not saved to put things in a more simple manner.

P.S.
Are you ever going to make paragraphs???
Excuses, excuses.

 

[Cygnus]

John said that, not Jesus.
I'll help you.
There is ONE place where Jesus says we have to believe.
John 6:29
Jesus Himself said that believing in Him is the work of God.
What does it mean to BELIEVE in Jesus?
What does believe mean in the Greek...
Does it mean to believe with the mind or with the heart...
If we believe with the heart, don't we do as the one we believe in instructs us?

NEXT.

 

[Cygnus]

Not necessarily disagreeing but this brings up a question for me. What happens when one does nothing to glorify God? By "does nothing" I mean makes no effort whatsoever, continues to live in the world, and so forth.

My guess...they were never saved to begin with. What do you think?

 

[GodsGrace]

My guess...they were never saved to begin with. What do you think?

NEXT.

 

[Cygnus]

Who is the builder?
This verse has always intrigued me and there are at least 3 different explanations for it.

The builder is you.

 

[GodsGrace]

The builder is you.

How about the builder being those who are supposed to teach us?

 

[Cygnus]

Sorry if I'm responding to you.
God knows our heart.
He knows us well.
The answer to all of the above is Yes because God knows.

I'm happy to see you really though about that reply.

NEXT

 

[Cygnus]

How about the builder being those who are supposed to teach us?

Every believer is a builder.

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm happy to see you really though about that reply.

NEXT

I've thought about everything really well cygnus.
You thought I haven't considered your pov?

 

[GodsGrace]

Every believer is a builder.

Yes. I agree.

 

[WIP]

My guess...they were never saved to begin with. What do you think?

And that's the part that concerns me with those who are being taught from verses such as Romans 8:1 but only teaching about the first part of the verse and not the entire verse or actually the first part of the entire chapter. For the rest of the chapter speaks about what it means to be in Christ Jesus. It's more that just claiming one believes. It includes the follow-up action of said belief and living according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh.

 

[GodsGrace]

And that's the part that concerns me with those who are being taught from verses such as Romans 8:1 but only teaching about the first part of the verse and not the entire verse or actually the first part of the entire chapter. For the rest of the chapter speaks about what it means to be in Christ Jesus. It's more that just claiming one believes. It includes the follow-up action of said belief and living according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh.

:nod

 

[WIP]

Well God doesn't allow such a thing,if you read in the bible Jonah ran from God refusing to give God's message to ninevah but God wouldn't allow him to leave without finishing the task,when you are God's he chastens you and you are in his hand,when he calls,you answer,and if you refuse he will be sure to have you do it eventually,try as you might as Jonah did,it's the same with salvation,accepting salvation effectively means that you are telling God you will serve God/Jesus forever,I don't know where people get the idea that you can sit around without God chastening you for disobeying,it wouldn't matter if you took a whole day off from talking about the bible or speaking of God,God will be waiting patiently and ready to send you out,though you may "Try"to stall,that's what it is to have salvation and the holy spirit,you will speak for God at some point,there is no "being lazy/idle" allowed.
A rest here and there but if anyone thinks they are God's and can be idle towards God for even a week they are mistaken,God knows how to "get your attention" and how to "motivate you" to get back to work for him.

Thank you for your response. I like what you wrote and will really give it thought and consideration.

 

[MCoop]

And that's the part that concerns me with those who are being taught from verses such as Romans 8:1 but only teaching about the first part of the verse and not the entire verse or actually the first part of the entire chapter. For the rest of the chapter speaks about what it means to be in Christ Jesus. It's more that just claiming one believes. It includes the follow-up action of said belief and living according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh.

I’m trying to figure out where anyone on this thread teaches antinomianism. It’s common for those who teach work based salvation to accuse those of teaching the true gospel of grace to be antinomian. Which in fact both groups are deniers of the gospel and promote another. And really the self righteous law keepers deflect from facing the real issue at hand. How is one just or saved before God? By the merits of Christ or by a sinners merits? The OP is opposed to essential Christian Doctrine. That is, that salvation is by grace through faith alone in Christ alone, apart from any works in any degree from the believer. The focus of obedient righteous living in a believer is the mere fruit of a saved sinner; NOT his justification before God. But many on here promote their works contribute to their justification in the end.. which is heresy! But I suspect that I’ll get the same responses of deflection of teaching antinomianism

 

[Kidron]

Most of "Saved by grace through faith" Christian teachings

.

-

You'll forgive me i hope for not reading past your first sentence or 2, as i didnt need to go any farther.

Let me offer you a few things.

First of all, M-Luther didnt create the teaching about faith that you attribute to him.
Paul, the apostle, is the one who reveled this "doctrine" to the "church", after it was personally given to him by Jesus The Christ.
So, that is the first place you need to revamp your theology.

2nd, We are absolutely NOT saved by Faith.
No one is saved by faith, ..... as you are not able to save yourself from your sins, as you cant redeem yourself, or pardon your own sins..
So, the confusion about this, is not with Paul, or MLuther, or the NT, but rather its a wrong understanding about "by faith you are saved"..
People like you and many others, when they read this verse, they, for some reason can't comprehend the "BY"... faith.
See that word, "BY".?
"by"
"By"
"by"
That is the KEY to understanding the revelation of exaclty how faith is used in operation by God, so that you are redeemed.

So, here it is very simply explained.
You are saved not by faith, but by GOD, that is to say, you are born again and redeemed by GOD, who uses the BLOOD of Jesus and his sinless righteousness to atone for you, when you BELIEVE = faith.
Faith ACTIVATES God to save you.
But faith itself, does not save you.
God saves, not faith.
So agaoin, its not faith that saves you, but its GOD who saves you, BY BY...BY < ....accepting your FAITH, TO save you, BY using the Blood of Jesus which imparts not only forgiveness for your sin, but moreso, you are given, eternally, the very RIGHTEOUSNESS of God himself, as YOUR VERY OWN.
THAT is salvation.

For many, this is what escapes many believers who do not understand Grace.
The grace of God, is not what you do, its what GOD offers as the "GIFT of Righteousness".
So, to understand salvation correctly, all you have do is understand that Salvation = is God accepting you back into His family by one means..
And that , is for God to give you His very righteousness so that He can accept you.

Salvation is not about works... .its about RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Salvation is God giving you His Righteousness, so that He can accept you.
And for no other reason will He.
He will never accept you based on your lifestyle, or any type of discipleship.
He Cant......He can only accept you when you are EQUAL in righteousness to Himself, that He provides, and that is only accomplished by HIM, on your behalf, by redeeming you with the Blood of the Lamb.

 

[th1b.taylor]

-

You'll forgive me i hope for not reading past your first sentence or 2, as i didnt need to go any farther.

Let me offer you a few things.

First of all, M-Luther didnt create the teaching about faith that you attribute to him.
Paul, the apostle, is the one who reveled this "doctrine" to the "church", after it was personally given to him by Jesus The Christ.
So, that is the first place you need to revamp your theology.

2nd, We are absolutely NOT saved by Faith.
No one is saved by faith, ..... as you are not able to save yourself from your sins, as you cant redeem yourself, or pardon your own sins..
So, the confusion about this, is not with Paul, or MLuther, or the NT, but rather its a wrong understanding about "by faith you are saved"..
People like you and many others, when they read this verse, they, for some reason can't comprehend the "BY"... faith.
See that word, "BY".?
"by"
"By"
"by"
That is the KEY to understanding the revelation of exaclty how faith is used in operation by God, so that you are redeemed.

So, here it is very simply explained.
You are saved not by faith, but by GOD, that is to say, you are born again and redeemed by GOD, who uses the BLOOD of Jesus and his sinless righteousness to atone for you, when you BELIEVE = faith.
Faith ACTIVATES God to save you.
But faith itself, does not save you.
God saves, not faith.
So agaoin, its not faith that saves you, but its GOD who saves you, BY BY...BY < ....accepting your FAITH, TO save you, BY using the Blood of Jesus which imparts not only forgiveness for your sin, but moreso, you are given, eternally, the very RIGHTEOUSNESS of God himself, as YOUR VERY OWN.
THAT is salvation.

For many, this is what escapes many believers who do not understand Grace.
The grace of God, is not what you do, its what GOD offers as the "GIFT of Righteousness".
So, to understand salvation correctly, all you have do is understand that Salvation = is God accepting you back into His family by one means..
And that , is for God to give you His very righteousness so that He can accept you.

Salvation is not about works... .its about RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Salvation is God giving you His Righteousness, so that He can accept you.
And for no other reason will He.
He will never accept you based on your lifestyle, or any type of discipleship.
He Cant......He can only accept you when you are EQUAL in righteousness to Himself, that He provides, and that is only accomplished by HIM, on your behalf, by redeeming you with the Blood of the Lamb.

He said everything you said with that single sentence and I don't know why you jumped on him. I'll betcha he even knows the faith to believe is a gift from God and not of self.

 

[atpollard]

I've had it said to me, in plain words, that once we're saved it's not NECESSARY to obey God because Jesus will cover for us.

Me too, which is where I have issues.

1 John 2:1-14 NASB
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
7 Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard. 8 On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining. 9 The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now. 10 The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name’s sake. 13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father. 14 I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.


Doesn't John say that Jesus will "cover for us"? So whether we obey or sin, Jesus is our propitiation.
Now it also says that we will WANT TO OBEY (which is different than a 'legal' requirement to obey), and that we will obey because we know Him, the love of God is in us, and that love is being perfected.

 

[whatgoeshere?]

There are probably a few but here is one:

“There will always be temptations to sin, but what sorrow awaits the person who does the tempting! It would be better to be thrown into the sea with a millstone hung around your neck than to cause one of these little ones to fall into sin. So watch yourselves!" - JESUS

No, Luke 17 does not say that.