We Create Our Own Hell

[elijah23]

People who believe that their salvation is tenuous at best, depending one whether they sin or not, will most definitely suffer a great deal when they sin.

Salvation is never tenuous. We are all saved. That is not the problem.

The problem is that the Lord wants us to stop sinning—he wants us to stop acting selfishly. He will discipline us if we don’t repent of our sin, and that discipline can be very severe if we wait too long to repent. It is for our own good.

And so Jesus went about the countryside telling people to repent.

 

[elijah23]

Imagine a good father denying his own child when he or she does wrong. That, my friend is a tyrant. God is nothing like that...He is the perfect Father.

A loving parent will discipline a child for the child’s own good. The Lord will discipline us for our own good. I don’t know exactly what you mean by “denying his own child,†but that is not an expression I have used in one of my posts.

 

[elijah23]

We suffer when we step out of fellowship with Him. He doesn't want us to suffer. He wants us to be in perfect fellowship with Him, so when we err, He speaks, and we are to turn back to Him. It doesn't necessarily cause undue suffering--just enough discomfort to know we have stepped away from His best.

The Lord regulates the amount of suffering we experience. He will only allow us to suffer as much as we need to in order to influence us to repent of our sin.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Salvation is never tenuous. We are all saved. That is not the problem.

That is Universalism, not Christian at all! Jesus taught us that there is the wide gate that leads to destruction and the narrow gate that leads to life and that few, are they that find it. (Matt. 7:13 & 14)

 

[Alabaster]

Salvation is never tenuous. We are all saved. That is not the problem.

The problem is that the Lord wants us to stop sinning—he wants us to stop acting selfishly. He will discipline us if we don’t repent of our sin, and that discipline can be very severe if we wait too long to repent. It is for our own good.

And so Jesus went about the countryside telling people to repent.

You said in a previous post that we lose our salvation when we sin. I was responding to that.

http://www.christianforums.net/f17/salvation-what-when-will-obtained-33358/#post495926

Of course God wants us to stop sinning, but He is here to help us. When we make Him our Lord, our Master, we learn to love His correction. It is never severe when we are always seeking Him. He is not a harsh taskmaster!

 

[Alabaster]

A loving parent will discipline a child for the child’s own good. The Lord will discipline us for our own good. I don’t know exactly what you mean by “denying his own child,†but that is not an expression I have used in one of my posts.

When you believe that we lose our salvation when we sin, you are saying saying the Father rejects His own.

 

[Alabaster]

The Lord regulates the amount of suffering we experience. He will only allow us to suffer as much as we need to in order to influence us to repent of our sin.

That is false.

Sin and Satan bring suffering. God doesn't.

 

[th1b.taylor]

The Lord regulates the amount of suffering we experience. He will only allow us to suffer as much as we need to in order to influence us to repent of our sin.

Jesus is the Creator! (John 1:1-3) The same verses prove that Jesus and the God of the old Testament are the same God and not just some gods. In the Bible, (the Old Testament) not the Life Application Commentary (the New Testament) Jesus killed entire families for the sins of the father of the clan. (Achan, (Josh. 7:1-26) and all his family and all his live-stock were stoned to death to appease God.) For the sins of Achan God punished all of Israel for the sins of Achan (same passage) by allowing their defeat at Ai!

Where, and I know better, but where is the passage for this teaching of yours that I ell you is a heresy?

 

[elijah23]

That is Universalism, not Christian at all! Jesus taught us that there is the wide gate that leads to destruction and the narrow gate that leads to life and that few, are they that find it. (Matt. 7:13 & 14)

You are taking my remark our of context. I believe in hell—it is the discipline we receive when we sin, and it never ends if we never stop sinning.

 

[Alabaster]

You are taking my remark our of context. I believe in hell—it is the discipline we receive when we sin, and it never ends if we never stop sinning.

Calling the conviction of the Holy Spirit hell is really an unfortunate use of words. If you really understood what hell is, you would stop.

 

[elijah23]

You said in a previous post that we lose our salvation when we sin. I was responding to that.

I suspect you and I look at salvation in different ways. We are saved from our sins, but we are disciplined for our sins, and the discipline can be tremendously harsh if we continue in sin despite the Lord’s continuous warnings.

In a sense, then, we CAN lose our salvation, because the Lord’s discipline can be so harsh, but when we turn from our sins, he forgives us.

 

[elijah23]

Of course God wants us to stop sinning, but He is here to help us. When we make Him our Lord, our Master, we learn to love His correction. It is never severe when we are always seeking Him. He is not a harsh taskmaster!

The Lord’s discipline is never more, or less, severe than t needs to be.

 

[Alabaster]

I suspect you and I look at salvation in different ways. We are saved from our sins, but we are disciplined for our sins, and the discipline can be tremendously harsh if we continue in sin despite the Lord’s continuous warnings.

In a sense, then, we CAN lose our salvation, because the Lord’s discipline can be so harsh, but when we turn from our sins, he forgives us.

You seem to forget about the Grace of God and His great love and affection for us. When we sin, He convicts us, but He doesn't bring suffering. Sin does that for us.

Those who love God and desire Him are pleased to receive His discipline. Christians do not walk in sin.

My salvation is sure. It is built in the Rock. Maybe you are building on sand?

 

[elijah23]

Where you believe you lose your salvation when you yield to temptation, I don't, according to God's word. Jesus says nothing can separate me from Him.

Read Romans 8

I believe we are all saved, in the sense that no one is going to burn forever, without an opportunity to escape through repentance.

But the Lord’s discipline can be extremely harsh if there is no other way for the Lord to influence us to repent of our sin. Life in this world can be truly terrible if we stray far enough from the Lord. It is from this that we need to be “saved,†I believe.

 

[elijah23]

That is false.

Sin and Satan bring suffering. God doesn't.

No. The Lord, like any loving parent, is a disciplinarian and I thank him for it.

 

[Alabaster]

I believe we are all saved, in the sense that no one is going to burn forever, without an opportunity to escape through repentance.

But the Lord’s discipline can be extremely harsh if there is no other way for the Lord to influence us to repent of our sin. Life in this world can be truly terrible if we stray far enough from the Lord. It is from this that we need to be “saved,†I believe.

We are NOT all saved, elijah.

Everyone who does not repent and receive Jesus Christ will be cast into hell to remain there forever. God says it. Everyone has an opportunity given him.

As far as believers who sin, God will convict us of it, and it isn't harsh. If a Christian backslides away from His faith, then he will get into trouble---of His own doing, but the Lord will use that to bring Him to repent.

His discipline is normally not harsh, but loving. When He is able to finally break us as a rancher breaks a wild stallion, we learn to love His correction...and love Him.

He instructs husbands in Colossians 3:19 to love their wives as Christ loves the Church and to not treat them harshly. Would God then renege and treat His children harshly? Think about it.

 

[elijah23]

Jesus is the Creator! (John 1:1-3) The same verses prove that Jesus and the God of the old Testament are the same God and not just some gods.

I believe Jesus is God in the flesh.

 

[elijah23]

Where, and I know better, but where is the passage for this teaching of yours that I ell you is a heresy?

I am not a teacher.

The Lord is omnipotent.

The Lord if just.

The purpose of suffering is to influence us to repent.

The Lord will never allow us to suffer unjustly.

 

[elijah23]

Calling the conviction of the Holy Spirit hell is really an unfortunate use of words. If you really understood what hell is, you would stop.

I do not believe in your hell, which says people will eternally be tortured for failing their “test†here on earth.

The hell I believe in is the hell where we are disciplined for our sins, after which we are forgiven.

My God is a loving, forgiving God. All we have to do is repent.

 

[elijah23]

You seem to forget about the Grace of God and His great love and affection for us. When we sin, He convicts us, but He doesn't bring suffering. Sin does that for us.

There are different ways to look at how it happens, whether the Lord is responsible or whether sin is responsible, but the end result is the same: If we don’t sin, we’ll be okay, and if we do sin, we will suffer.