What do we believe about the Resurrection?

[ezrider]

While I agree with you that Messiah alone fulfills the wave sheaf offerings as the firstfruits unto Yahweh, there are other firstfruits. The 144,000 of Rev 14:4 are also firstfruits, but they are firstfruits of the wheat harvest and fulfill Lev 23:15-17. Since Mt 27:50-54 refers to the resurrection of the saints of old (not Messiah's saints), they are from the barley harvest which preceded the wheat harvest. They can be considered the firstfruits of the barley harvest.

I have not studied the depths of the different offering under the old covenant as I believe that you have, so I can not really speak to that. But in the addition scripture that you referenced something significant stood out to me. And that after the first offering, which occured at the time the grave were opened at the moment Christ was physically risen. The second offering came seven sabbbaths, or 50 days later on the day of Pentecost when the Spirit of God was poured out upon them according to that which was written by the prophet Joel and the promises of God, and by the testimony of Jesus.

 

[ezrider]

Being the Son of God, when Jesus rose from the dead and was seen of many, was He Resurrected by the Father? Or was he resurrected by his own will, being the Son?

What did Jesus do for those three days that he spent in the tomb, before he rose from the dead?

If you can answer those two questions, then you might begin to understand how the prophecy in Ezekiel 37:12-14 and Zechariah 9:9-11 were long ago fulfilled in the Resurrection of Christ.

I am anxious for your answers, because I have seen it to its end. But I am afraid that if I tell you, then you will not believe it. But maybe if you see it for yourself, then you will believe.

I have received some responses to these questions and I thank you all for them, but I would really like more people to respond with their answers before I will explain the conclusion that I have drawn.

 

[ezra]

Are not the 3 one in the same? God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit

they are separate but w/o one of the other you have nothing its like a egg we have the shell the white of of the egg and the yoke . at Christ baptism it was summed up like this ..this is my beloved son in who i am well pleased hear ye him. after the the holy spirit come down in the form of a dove. but back to the topic which is being hacked up the resurrection give us power it also gives us hope in the last resurrection that if we are dead or alive .we will be translated like we have never known.. nobody can fully understand this exact way other than its gonna happen . so present and future is important. i said all that w/o using big words.

 

[Chopper]

Thanks Chopper, but you really didn't have to post your apology three times

jocor Chopper I will fix that , reba

Sorry, I didn't know I had posted three times. I'm having trouble with CF.net logging me out and causing me a lot of grief.

 

[Butch5]

Being the Son of God, when Jesus rose from the dead and was seen of many, was He Resurrected by the Father? Or was he resurrected by his own will, being the Son?

Jesus was raised by the Father via the Spirit.

10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. (Rom 8:10-11 NKJ)

 

[Butch5]

What did Jesus do for those three days that he spent in the tomb, before he rose from the dead?

Nothing

 

[ezrider]

With that thought in mind, I would like to change the focus of the thread a little bit, but still within the confines of this discussion concerning the resurrection of Christ. I would like to circle back and touch on something that I touched on briefly within the OP, and that is SIN.

What is SIN?

The sin that I am speaking of is not the sin of adultery or fornication, of homosexuality or divorce. It is not the sin of theft or murder, or of rape and violence. It is not the sin of watching something on TV, or sitting in a bar smoking a cigarette. Those sins blind us to the Sin that I am asking about. So What Is Sin?

Romans 5:12-14 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

What was the similitude of Adams transgression? What did Adam do?

Adam walked in the Garden of Eden and God walked with him in the cool of the day. But Eve being deceived by the serpent took the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and then did she give it unto her Husband. And though Adam knew better than to eat, he partook of the fruit of knowledge even though he knew it was forbidden to him, so that he could take the blame upon himself and protect his wife. But when they did eat of the fruit of knowledge, their EYES WERE OPENED and the saw that they were naked, and in their shame the hid from the presence of the Lord. His sin was not the act of disobedience, the sin was that he did not ask forgiveness of the Lord, and tried to hide from his presence.

What is Sin?

John 16:7-14 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away:for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me:for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

We are all dead in our trespasses, but we remain dead in them when we Sin against the Lord by not believing in Him, after the similitude of Adam's transgressions, but we remain blinded to the one Sin that separates us from God by the petty sins and transgression that occupy our flesh.

What was the Sin committed by the children of Israel as they were brought out of the land of Egypt. Now keep in mind. They had just witnessed the power of God in the judgement against Egypt and the plagues thereof. They were delivered as the sea was parted before them. The were lead by a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night. They were fed manna from heaven. And though they had stood a witness to all of those things that happened before them, that when the glory of God descended upon the mountain in a cloud of fire, when he would have written his laws into their hearts and minds at that time, but they feared exceeding great for their lives, that they turned form the Presence of the Lord and said give unto Moses that which we should do, and we shall do it, saying, "Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not."

So in that day did Israel Sin against the Lord, in rejecting his presence before them. Choosing Moses, a man after the flesh to teach them all things in the law, so that they might live righteously before the Lord. They chose Moses and their Covenant of the LAW, and hid themselves from the presence of the Lord. And by the Law, their tree of the knowledge of good and evil given unto them, their eyes were opened to the knowledge of their sin and death, suffering the transgression of Adam.

The Law of Moses and the written letter of God that we call the Bible Opens our Eyes to the knowledge of sin and death, and the knowledge of those sins and transgression in our flesh blinds us to the One Sin that matters, and that is the knowledge of Christ within you. For unto this day when Moses is read, the Vail is still upon their hearts, but when it shall turn to Christ, the same Vail shall be taken away.

The letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life, and to that life everlasting. The knowledge of the Law has opened my eyes to sin and death, and everywhere I look in this world, that is all that I see. But the JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.

I no longer follow after the law or the works thereof. I have taken hold of the Faith that the Lord has given unto me. I have come to the knowledge of his Grace, and the eyes that once were open, he has closed that I should no longer look upon it. He has closed mine eyes to death, that I may Glory in his Life. By FAITH I walk in the Lord, yet not by my own sight, but I trust in that which Christ hath seen, and that he shall show it unto me, if it be his will. And so I walk not according to my own sight, or by the letter of the word, but by the sight of Him who dwells in me. The LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Turn from your sins, that you might look upon your SIN.

The Children of God turned from the presence of God and rejected the knowledge within them because they had stood witness to the power of wrath of God, so that is understandable. But to reject His Word that was witnessed by many, and confirmed by the law and the prophets in the Power of His Grace in establishing the Covenant of his peace, I guess that is what Christ referred to as unforgivable.

If you do not come the knowledge of Christ who dwells within you, then you shall stand upon your own before the Glory of the Father like the children of Israel before in the presence of the lake of fire. And if you have not come to the knowledge of Christ within you, then you are not known of Christ, and will stand in the presence of the Lord God Almighty on that Day without the full assurance of the Salvation given unto us through the Death and Resurrection of Christ.

 

[jocor]

Wow! That was quite a change in focus and I totally disagree with your assessment of the Law.

I already know Messiah dwells within me. What believer doesn't except babes in Messiah? The fact that he dwells within us does not change the fact that the Law is written on our hearts and must be obeyed. To commit adultery under the New Covenant is still sin. Our faith does not make void the Law as Paul wrote in Romans 3:31. Faith establishes (Greek - makes to stand) the Law. Throughout the Old Testament, even though they had the Law, Israel was still required to live by faith. They failed to do so. Why? Because the Law was external, written on stone and parchment. A change had to be made because of the weakness of people. So Yahweh wrote the Law internally on the hearts and minds of New Covenant believers. It is not there so we can abolish it. It is there to obey through the indwelling Spirit.

 

[ezrider]

Wow! That was quite a change in focus and I totally disagree with your assessment of the Law.

I already know Messiah dwells within me. What believer doesn't except babes in Messiah? The fact that he dwells within us does not change the fact that the Law is written on our hearts and must be obeyed. To commit adultery under the New Covenant is still sin. Our faith does not make void the Law as Paul wrote in Romans 3:31. Faith establishes (Greek - makes to stand) the Law. Throughout the Old Testament, even though they had the Law, Israel was still required to live by faith. They failed to do so. Why? Because the Law was external, written on stone and parchment. A change had to be made because of the weakness of people. So Yahweh wrote the Law internally on the hearts and minds of New Covenant believers. It is not there so we can abolish it. It is there to obey through the indwelling Spirit.

John 5:36-44
But I have greater witness than that of John:for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. I receive not honour from men. But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not:if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only,

Search the scriptures all you want, for in them you think you have eternal life, but by the scriptures you do not have the full assurance of eternal life. Those with with the assurance of life eternal will bear the fruits thereof, and they shall testify of the Spirit of Christ that dwells within them.

Revelation 19:9-10 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not:I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

You say that you already know the Lord and that his spirit dwells within you, to this I will not disagree. But let me ask you one question? Do you think you could ever know the word of God in you apart from your Bible?

 

[jocor]

Search the scriptures all you want, for in them you think you have eternal life, but by the scriptures you do not have the full assurance of eternal life. Those with with the assurance of life eternal will bear the fruits thereof, and they shall testify of the Spirit of Christ that dwells within them.

I agree.

Revelation 19:9-10 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not:I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

The testimony of Yeshua is only half of the equation. Don't forget about Rev 12:17 - And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Yeshua Messiah.

You say that you already know the Lord and that his spirit dwells within you, to this I will not disagree. But let me ask you one question? Do you think you could ever know the word of God in you apart from your Bible?

Of course. All the Gentiles converts knew him when they received him into their hearts even before reading the Scriptures. However, that does not negate the necessity of growing in the truth through the reading of the written Word.

 

[Free]

Free, you are listed as a moderator on this web site, so of all people I should not have to say this. But please stop purposely miss-characterizing what I have said. I have never said there was no final resurrection.

You would have a case if I was purposely doing it but I'm not. Your posts are very contradictory, that's where the issue is.

As a matter of fact I have unequivocally stated and I believe Chopper has already stated in one of his post that I have never insinuated that.

As I have already pointed out, and will do so again, your first two posts very strongly implied that there is no final bodily resurrection. I simply cannot see how they could be understood any other way.

All I have stated, is exactly the words that are printed in you Bible, that they held the doctrine in error. I should not have to look up the definition of the word error, it should be evident enough by itself. To say that it is held in error is not to say that it does not exist. I do not know why you seem to be so hung up on that. All that was said is they did not understand it correctly. It would be like someone going to the New York Yankees with the hopes of winning the championship and celebrating a Super Bowl victory. That person would have been in error. That does not mean the super bowl does not exist, nor does it mean that he can not win a championship. It only means he did not understand which league he played for.

And all I have stated is that you are wrong in what you are making those passages in the Bible say, in your understanding of them.

I have addressed this specifically before with you and you still refuse to acknowledge that, and yet you still keep insisting I have said something that I did not say. As a moderator you should know better. Please cease and desist from miss-characterizing the words that I have used or putting words in my mouth that I have not said.

I have not refused anything and, again, I have not misrepresented what you have said, nor have I put words in your mouth. I will here post exactly what you posted in the first two posts:

"I am starting this thread so that we might take a closer look at what we believe the resurrection to be, and do those beliefs actually align with what the scriptures says, or have we allowed other images and ideas to influence our understanding of the true resurrection. I know there are some here on this board who will insist repeatedly that the Resurrection is still yet sometime out in the future waiting on the return of Jesus and the rapture, and they have a habit of repeating the same thing over and over again to reaffirm their belief. I thought about putting this thread in the Bible Study forum where debate would be limited, but I think the Apologetics forum will provide more discussion on the subject. I hope that we can have an honest open and respectful dialog and carefully look at the scriptures concerning the Resurrection.

I do not know what other people believe when it comes to the resurrection. Is the resurrection connected with the dead rising up from the graves? Have we allowed the story of Lazarus coming forth from the grave to create an image of the resurrection from the dead in our minds? What is the nature of the resurrection: is it physical or is it spiritual?"

Those statements alone imply that what we believe about a future, bodily resurrection is wrong. But it doesn't stop there:

"I believe the resurrection to be spiritual in nature, so in my posts when I am referring to the dead or the living in context with the resurrection, I consider the dead to be spiritually dead, though in the flesh they are yet alive, and those that are living are as a living spirit."

Those bolded words sound exactly what JWs teach about Jesus' resurrection--that it was spiritual, not physical. It is also a belief of Gnosticism. And note that you have said all this within a context that implies that what we believe about a physical resurrection is not correct.

And then what I previously posted:

"From these passages and from Acts 23:8 we are told that the Sadducees say there is no resurrection, but the Pharisees did believe in a resurrection. As to what the Pharisees actually believed I do not know, but the line of questioning the Sadducees are applying here tends toward the belief in a physical bodily resurrection where they will once again pick up their lives in heaven. But to this line of thinking Jesus told them they were in error, not knowing the scriptures or the power of God. And then he corrected them saying God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. I wonder if Martha believed in a resurrection like the Pharisees or as the Sadducees tried depicting it?

John 11:24-26 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

I will have more to say on this passage as it relates to John 5:28-29 and Rev 20:5-6 later on, but for now I want to stay focused on Martha’s belief in a resurrection at the last day, and Jesus correcting her saying I am the Resurrection. This is the first key to understanding the resurrection of the dead: JESUS IS THE RESURRECTION."

And from the start of your second post:

"So if your thinking on the resurrection at the last day is more in line with that of Martha, or whatever the Pharisees believed, or how the Sadducees presented their understanding of the resurrection, then know that Jesus said that you are in error, not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God. So lets look closer at the response that Jesus gave the Sadducees, because this is the second key to understanding the resurrection of the dead"


To sum then, your posts very clearly state that if I (we) believe the same as Martha regarding "resurrection at the last day...the know that Jesus said you are in error." Nowhere in either of those posts is it stated that you actually do believe in a physical resurrection on the last day, and why would you since you've stated it is error.

You will note that I have not put words in your mouth but that I have used your very words. There simply is no way to take them except that you are saying that belief in a bodily resurrection on the last day is error. Not to mention that I have stated twice now that all the passages you gave have been misapplied and your understanding of them is wrong. Yet you have still failed to address that.

 

[ezrider]

You would have a case if I was purposely doing it but I'm not. Your posts are very contradictory, that's where the issue is.


As I have already pointed out, and will do so again, your first two posts very strongly implied that there is no final bodily resurrection. I simply cannot see how they could be understood any other way.


And all I have stated is that you are wrong in what you are making those passages in the Bible say, in your understanding of them.


I have not refused anything and, again, I have not misrepresented what you have said, nor have I put words in your mouth. I will here post exactly what you posted in the first two posts:

"I am starting this thread so that we might take a closer look at what we believe the resurrection to be, and do those beliefs actually align with what the scriptures says, or have we allowed other images and ideas to influence our understanding of the true resurrection. I know there are some here on this board who will insist repeatedly that the Resurrection is still yet sometime out in the future waiting on the return of Jesus and the rapture, and they have a habit of repeating the same thing over and over again to reaffirm their belief. I thought about putting this thread in the Bible Study forum where debate would be limited, but I think the Apologetics forum will provide more discussion on the subject. I hope that we can have an honest open and respectful dialog and carefully look at the scriptures concerning the Resurrection.

I do not know what other people believe when it comes to the resurrection. Is the resurrection connected with the dead rising up from the graves? Have we allowed the story of Lazarus coming forth from the grave to create an image of the resurrection from the dead in our minds? What is the nature of the resurrection: is it physical or is it spiritual?"

Those statements alone imply that what we believe about a future, bodily resurrection is wrong. But it doesn't stop there:

"I believe the resurrection to be spiritual in nature, so in my posts when I am referring to the dead or the living in context with the resurrection, I consider the dead to be spiritually dead, though in the flesh they are yet alive, and those that are living are as a living spirit."

Those bolded words sound exactly what JWs teach about Jesus' resurrection--that it was spiritual, not physical. It is also a belief of Gnosticism. And note that you have said all this within a context that implies that what we believe about a physical resurrection is not correct.

And then what I previously posted:

"From these passages and from Acts 23:8 we are told that the Sadducees say there is no resurrection, but the Pharisees did believe in a resurrection. As to what the Pharisees actually believed I do not know, but the line of questioning the Sadducees are applying here tends toward the belief in a physical bodily resurrection where they will once again pick up their lives in heaven. But to this line of thinking Jesus told them they were in error, not knowing the scriptures or the power of God. And then he corrected them saying God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. I wonder if Martha believed in a resurrection like the Pharisees or as the Sadducees tried depicting it?

John 11:24-26 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

I will have more to say on this passage as it relates to John 5:28-29 and Rev 20:5-6 later on, but for now I want to stay focused on Martha’s belief in a resurrection at the last day, and Jesus correcting her saying I am the Resurrection. This is the first key to understanding the resurrection of the dead: JESUS IS THE RESURRECTION."

And from the start of your second post:

"So if your thinking on the resurrection at the last day is more in line with that of Martha, or whatever the Pharisees believed, or how the Sadducees presented their understanding of the resurrection, then know that Jesus said that you are in error, not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God. So lets look closer at the response that Jesus gave the Sadducees, because this is the second key to understanding the resurrection of the dead"


To sum then, your posts very clearly state that if I (we) believe the same as Martha regarding "resurrection at the last day...the know that Jesus said you are in error." Nowhere in either of those posts is it stated that you actually do believe in a physical resurrection on the last day, and why would you since you've stated it is error.

You will note that I have not put words in your mouth but that I have used your very words. There simply is no way to take them except that you are saying that belief in a bodily resurrection on the last day is error. Not to mention that I have stated twice now that all the passages you gave have been misapplied and your understanding of them is wrong. Yet you have still failed to address that.

Thank you for you reply, but I have respectfully moved on from discussing this point with you any further,

 

[Free]

I know you will probably reject this out of hand, but I am not sharing with you any interpretation of the scripture because I am not trying to teach you the Bible. I am not doing any sort of Bible study on this what so ever. I only share with you the Word of God as it spring forth from within. I only give you the Bible verses so you can see what these thoughts apply to as I have given them. And also because the rules and term of service require that I post them.

It doesn't matter whether or not you are trying to teach the Bible. If, as you say, you are only giving "the Bible verses so can see what these thoughts apply to as [you] have given them," then you are teaching the Bible. You simply cannot apply such thoughts to the Bible that they change the very plain meaning that is said. The Bible says what it says and to make it say more or less or something else entirely is a grave (pun intended) mistake.

Jesus said My sheep hear my voice. Do you think you would ever be able to hear the Word of God apart from your Bible?

It's possible but if "his" voice was misusing Scripture, I would likely think that it wasn't actually his voice.

 

[Free]

Thank you for you reply, but I have respectfully moved on from discussing this point with you any further,

Why? I'm calling you out as making certain passage of the Bible say things they are not saying. Do you not care about what Scripture actually teaches?

 

[ezrider]

I agree.



The testimony of Yeshua is only half of the equation. Don't forget about Rev 12:17 - And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Yeshua Messiah.



Of course. All the Gentiles converts knew him when they received him into their hearts even before reading the Scriptures. However, that does not negate the necessity of growing in the truth through the reading of the written Word.

That is not what I am asking you, and I am not quite sure how to characterize it for you. So let me put it this way if I may.

If I were to ask you to the teach me about the things that Jesus said in the scriptures, I am confident that you would be able to provide a very thorough outline of what you believe the scripture has to say. But what I am more interest in, is that in knowing the scriptures as well as you do. If you were do as Jesus did by fasting forty days in the wilderness, and were to fast from reading the Bible for forty days so that you could commune with the spirit of the Lord who lives within you; And then at the end of that forty day fast, if I were to ask you to tell me about Jesus without going to your Bible and quoting and scripture, I would expect that your testimony would be quite different. How could one conduct such an experiment with verifiable results?

When I can express what is written in the Bible without the need to reference it or the need to quote it, then I can rest in the full assurance that the word of God has been written on my heart. And by this I know that my salvation is true, as a minister of the new testament, not of the letter, but of the Spirit that dwells within us.

2 Corinthians 3:3-11
Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
And such trust have we through Christ to God- ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit:for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

2 Corinthians 3:12-18 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

 

[jocor]

When I can express what is written in the Bible without the need to reference it or the need to quote it, then I can rest in the full assurance that the word of God has been written on my heart. And by this I know that my salvation is true, as a minister of the new testament, not of the letter, but of the Spirit that dwells within us.

All the New Testament writers quoted Scripture even though they had the Law written on their hearts and their salvation was true.

2 Corinthians 3:3-11
Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
And such trust have we through Christ to God- ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit:for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

2 Corinthians 3:12-18 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

2 Cor 3 refers to the old covenant being abolished. Why did you quote that?

 

[ezrider]

All the New Testament writers quoted Scripture even though they had the Law written on their hearts and their salvation was true.



2 Cor 3 refers to the old covenant being abolished. Why did you quote that?

Forgive me, but I am beginning to wonder if you have even read my posts or if you are only looking at the scriptures the I have reference to impart you own wisdom from them; And speaking of scripture references, you said, all the new testament writers quoted scripture, and yet you act as if I have not. I have quoted more scripture than you can fathom, but to hear it you first have to listen.

And in your comment about the new testament writers quoting the scripture I noticed something, when did they teach them? Where in all of the new testament writing can you find an example of the Apostles or Paul or John or any of the other writer for that matter where the sat down together that that might teach them how to read and interpret the scripture? I can not think of one instance off the top of my head. They may have quoted scripture, but its understanding was only through the power of the Spirit of the Lord. The human eye and the flesh of our heart can not understand such things. It remains hidden to us except it be reveal by the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 9:8-14 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written:that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

1 Corinthians 2:1-8
And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect:yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew:for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

1 Corinthians 2:9-12 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

1 Corinthians 2:13-16 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

I would consider it wise to consider Paul's comment concerning the resurrection, because it exposes a lesson that would be wise to follow. For it brings into greater focus the lesson within my OP. "For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified."

 

[ezrider]

Interesting question my friend. I believe that Jesus used His God given power to rise from the dead because of the plan that God had set before the foundations of the world....John 10:18 "No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."....You ask, did Jesus use that power for Himself? The answer I believe is NO. He obeyed the will of the Father. He was fulfilling what the Prophets in the Hebrew Scriptures spoke of Him. And last of all, He was exercising His power in obedience to the will of His Father so that we would have our sins forgiven thru His shed Blood, be able to receive the grace of God so we could see our need of the Savior to believe by faith, apart from the Law, and become a child of God thru His sacrifice.

Looking back at John 11 and the story of Martha and Lazarus. Jesus said I AM THE RESURRECTION. In this experience, all who were present witnessed that the Jesus, the image of the Son of God in the flesh already had been given the power over Life and Death when He raise Lazarus up from the dead. The power of life and death was already given to the son. But in his death and resurrection, we see that Jesus laid down his life willingly so that he could do the will of his Father. Giving the power that had been given unto him back to the Father. So that through his obedience unto death, he could demonstrate the Faith that His Father would raise Him up again. And so Jesus was raised from the dead, not of his own will being the Son, but by the will of the Father, who had given all thing unto him.

John 5:19-24 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do:for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth:and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 

[JLB]

While I agree with you that Messiah alone fulfills the wave sheaf offerings as the firstfruits unto Yahweh, there are other firstfruits. The 144,000 of Rev 14:4 are also firstfruits, but they are firstfruits of the wheat harvest and fulfill Lev 23:15-17. Since Mt 27:50-54 refers to the resurrection of the saints of old (not Messiah's saints), they are from the barley harvest which preceded the wheat harvest. They can be considered the firstfruits of the barley harvest.

Christ is the firstfruits of those Resurrected from the dead, afterward all those who are His will be Resurrected at His Coming.

4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. Revelation 14:4


The 144,000 of this passage were not among the Resurrected, but were the firstfruits of the redeemed from among men.


Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Greet my beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia to Christ. Romans 16:5

Epaenetus was of the firstfruits of Achaia to come to Christ.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Nothing

Why were there souls in the heart of the earth, which is called Abraham's Bosom or Paradise and not in heaven when they physically died?

No one comes to the Father except through Jesus.

Jesus was in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights, though His body was in the tomb.


JLB