What does it mean to be born again?

[FreeGrace]

That is an argument from silence.
Note that in The Acts of the Apostles, everyone who became a believer was baptized in water.

Not true.

There are more statements about people getting saved that don't mention water baptism than do.

For example, Acts 2:47 - praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.

 

[Hospes]

Laying aside the debate on whether or not baptism is necessary for salvation, baptism is an act of obedience for the born again believer. I cannot reconcile a person calling Jesus "Lord" and yet not acting on His command to be baptized.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I cannot reconcile a person calling Jesus "Lord" and yet not acting on His command to be baptized.

Me neither.
It amazes me that people can boast of being born again and changed by the Holy Spirit, yet not submit to the command to be water baptised.
I'm not talking about the people who don't want to get wet in front of people because of make-up issues, clingy wet clothes, etc. I'm talking about the people who simply won't submit to water baptism. My dad was one of those. But he finally did.

 

[eddif]

Some other aspects:
Baptized into Christ
Baptized into his death
Baptized into his buriel

Romans 6:3

Since there is a baptism of repentance, should we not be looking into the broad and narrow of all baptisms?

Got to keep the gasoline in the gas can, and the diesel in the diesel can. If you do not have a kerosene can it might be time to get one. Got to keep those wicks trimmed and bowls filled for Mississippi power failure. LOL

eddif

 

[JLB]

Not true.

There are more statements about people getting saved that don't mention water baptism than do.

For example, Acts 2:47 - praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.

Acts 2:47 was the result of Peter's preaching on the Day of Pentecost, which included water baptism.

38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. 42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43 Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. 44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, 45 and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.

46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved. Acts 2:38-47


[edited]



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Acts 2:47 was the result of Peter's preaching on the Day of Pentecost, which included water baptism.

I don't doubt that, but there are many references of people in Acts getting saved without any mention of water baptism.

 

[WIP]

Not true.

There are more statements about people getting saved that don't mention water baptism than do.

For example, Acts 2:47 - praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.

The Bible not mentioning water baptism doesn't necessarily mean they weren't. We are just not told one way or the other. It seems all we can do is speculate.

One question comes to my mind. Can one become a disciple of Jesus without baptism? He did say, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." Matthew 28:19 NKJV Does this imply baptism is required for discipleship?

 

[Kidron]

Then those who gladly received his word were baptized;


JLB

First of all, Peter at the time of this preaching, didnt have the revelation of the Grace of God, as this was given to Paul many years later by Jesus himself.
So, Peter was preaching the typical jewish water baptism theology (John the Baptist), as that is all Peter KNEW at that time, and this explains why Acts 2:38 is not the Gospel of the Grace of God, that Paul taught the Church later on.
Also notice that after they received the word they were baptized.
This means, they heard the word, believed (Faith cometh by hearing).. and were SAVED, and then they hit the water.
This is always the same in the NT.........a person hears the word, believes the word, and God saves them, and then they are W-baptized as this is the symbolic "old man dying, new man rising".
Look at your NT......notice that water always FOLLOWS salvation.

"for as many as heard the word and believed it, gave HE them power to become the Sons of God".

No water, just Word mixed with Faith....as water is just a symbol of the conversion that has already occurred by New Birth.
You get Saved and THEN you get water baptized.

 

[Kidron]

One question comes to my mind. Can one become a disciple of Jesus without baptism??

-
Absolutely.

Did you ever notice this scripture?
Here is someone, alive at the very time of Jesus, who is doing the works of Christ, and yet is not a part of the A- team
and notice that Jesus does not require this believer to get "water baptized".

LUKE 9:50

49: "Master," said John, "we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us."

50: "Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."

 

[LovethroughDove]

The Bible not mentioning water baptism doesn't necessarily mean they weren't. We are just not told one way or the other. It seems all we can do is speculate.

One question comes to my mind. Can one become a disciple of Jesus without baptism? He did say, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." Matthew 28:19 NKJV Does this imply baptism is required for discipleship?

People are subliminally putting "water" with "baptizing" when it comes to reading scripture how it is written. We all know John baptized with water. Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 3:11 "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

When we are baptized by the Spirit, we are baptized into Christ's baptism. It is literally his same baptism over 2000 years ago.

Romans 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism

 

[Free]

The Bible not mentioning water baptism doesn't necessarily mean they weren't. We are just not told one way or the other. It seems all we can do is speculate.

One question comes to my mind. Can one become a disciple of Jesus without baptism? He did say, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." Matthew 28:19 NKJV Does this imply baptism is required for discipleship?

Acts 8:36 And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, "See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?"
Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.
Acts 8:39a And when they came up out of the water...

 

[Free]

People are subliminally putting "water" with "baptizing" when it comes to reading scripture how it is written. We all know John baptized with water. Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 3:11 "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

When we are baptized by the Spirit, we are baptized into Christ's baptism. It is literally his same baptism over 2000 years ago.

Romans 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism

See my post above regarding Acts 8:36-39, but also Acts 8:14-17:

Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John,
Acts 8:15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit,
Acts8:16 for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 8:17 Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.

We have at least one passage that clearly shows someone being baptized in water, and another passage in which baptism "in the name of the Lord Jesus" is separated from receiving the Holy Spirit.

 

[Kidron]

Acts 8:36 And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, "See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?"
Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.
Acts 8:39a And when they came up out of the water...

"Why did you leave out vs 37?, as its the context for why the eunuch was to be baptized.???

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest be water baptised. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

So, the water follows his belief and confession, and the belief is the conversion moment...

 

[Free]

"Why did you leave out vs 37?, as its the context for why the eunuch was to be baptized.???

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest be water baptised. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

So, the water follows his belief and confession, and the belief is the conversion moment...

Because some versions do not have that verse.

 

[Kidron]

Because some versions do not have that verse.

Burn those versions.

 

[Free]

Burn those versions.

Even though you jest, the verse is considered an addition from the second century and so should be excluded, or if included, having a note stating such.

 

[Kidron]

Laying aside the debate on whether or not baptism is necessary for salvation, baptism is an act of obedience for the born again believer. I cannot reconcile a person calling Jesus "Lord" and yet not acting on His command to be baptized.

A believer should be Water Baptized, however, can you imagine this conversation..


Jesus speaking... Humm, Child of God.... you are born again, redeemed, and are passed from death to life. You were translated from the power of darkness into the Kingdom of God and you are my Joint Heir and in fact you are in me and im in you, however, you didnt get dunked or sprinkled after you were purchased with my blood, so off to hell with you."""

 

[Kidron]

Even though you jest, the verse is considered an addition from the second century and so should be excluded, or if included, having a note stating such.

Im not going to go and research this because what i bet i will find is that the a " Church" that proclaims that water is necessary to be born again has decided that the verse we are discussing is not found in what they would say is the "best manuscript version".
(bait and switch).
So, i'll not get into that one too deeply, as i think we both see what is at play here, and why, and how, and whom?
After all, why would a church that wants water to be the regeneration device want a verse in ITS bible that shows that conversion happened first....without water?
So, this is the thing about Christianity, ... is that there is a lot of lying and devilment going on within "theological" circles, as well as on "christian forums".

But let me say this...
If i wanted you to believe that water was absolutely necessary for conversion, i would create a bible that "omitted" verses that proved that this isnt true, and i would start using a false idea about "better versions", and "manuscript evidence " as an obvious tactic to work my con.

What do you think?

 

[Free]

Im not going to go and research this because what i bet i will find is that the a " Church" that proclaims that water is necessary to be born again has decided that the verse we are discussing is not found in what they would say is the "best manuscript version".
(bait and switch).
So, i'll not get into that one too deeply, as i think we both see what is at play here, and why, and how, and whom?
After all, why would a church that wants water to be the regeneration device want a verse in ITS bible that shows that conversion happened first....without water?
So, this is the thing about Christianity, ... is that there is a lot of lying and devilment going on within "theological" circles, as well as on "christian forums".

But let me say this...
If i wanted you to believe that water was absolutely necessary for conversion, i would create a bible that "omitted" verses that proved that this isnt true, and i would start using a false idea about "better versions", and "manuscript evidence " as an obvious tactic to work my con.

What do you think?

While possible, I don't think that really goes on. There are just too many scholars across all Christian sects and denominations that one particular branch could get away with something like that.

 

[eddif]

To kind of seperate the aspects of baptisms I love Acts 19

Acts 19:1 KJV
And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

Ok let us see what he checks for.
Baptism aspect (#?)
Verse 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

He seems to be checking for #3
But if not #3 which one?
Verse 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Verse 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Ok they were into #1 (repentance baptism)
...............
John's baptism of repentance. They were encouraged to look for #2 baptism.

Verse 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

So they moved into #2 baptism (Jesus Christ salvation baptism).
............,

Verse 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

And here is #3 ( Holy Spirit baptism) the power to witness.
....,.....,
1. John's baptism
2. Jesus's baptism
3. Holy Spirit baptism

John's baptism would have been water.

This passage does not clarify everything, but to me it does show three aspects of baptism.

#1 need for new heart (repentance)
#2 answer for new heart (Jesus)
#3 answer for new mind ( mind of Christ)

Of course Mississippi folks just may not know.

eddif