What does it mean to be "In Christ?"

[gordon777]

By the way, Jeremiah 32:40 isn't talking about the New Covenant. Understood in context, it is a promise God made specifically to the OT Israelites:

Jeremiah 32:36-42 (NASB)
36 "Now therefore thus says the LORD God of Israel concerning this city of which you say, 'It is given into the hand of the king of Babylon by sword, by famine and by pestilence.'
37 "Behold, I will gather them out of all the lands to which I have driven them in My anger, in My wrath and in great indignation; and I will bring them back to this place and make them dwell in safety.
38 "They shall be My people, and I will be their God;
39 and I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me always, for their own good and for the good of their children after them.
40 "I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from Me.
41 "I will rejoice over them to do them good and will faithfully plant them in this land with all My heart and with all My soul.
42 "For thus says the LORD, 'Just as I brought all this great disaster on this people, so I am going to bring on them all the good that I am promising them.

How you mistook verse 40 for a promise to New Covenant, Gentile, born-again believers, I just can't understand. In context, it's so obvious God is speaking to His Chosen People, the Israelites, it seems to me impossible to miss. But miss it you did.

Tenchi seems unaware that all scripture testifies of Christ, and Christ being the messenger of the Covenant brought the same Covenant to all people.



John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.


Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;



Tenchi claims to have taught people for a long time. ( the Pharisees and they in the law interrestingly beieved they did the same.)



Romans 2:7 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

 

[gordon777]

For anyone who might be confused by Tenchi's position on the fear of the Lord, here are some reminders:



Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Hebrews 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.

 

[gordon777]

Another confusion might be had from opinion about obedience.

Obedience is one way or the other, it is as simple as that, obeying sin or of obedience unto righteousness.

he next instruction is to cast down all that exalts itself against Christ, to bring into captivity ( into obedience) every thought to the obedience of Christ.

All disobedience ( of those who obey sin) shall be avenged when the obedience ( of those who obey unto righteousness/bringing every thought to the obedience of Christ) is fulfilled.

Though Christ was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.

Elect are through sanctification of the Spirit. ( the Spirit of Christ/the obedience of Christ.) UNTO OBEDIENCE, and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ.



Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

2 Corinthians 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

 

[gordon777]

Do you see how far you're having to twist Scripture to maintain your untenable views? Yikes.

No need for you to desperately claim someone is twisting scripture. ( due to not understanding it yet.)


You are well answered how the Pharisees are cursed/ WOE UNTO THEM. ( through their offerings and tithes, of anise and cummin, as per Malachi 3:8. 3:9. Matthew 23:23.

If you cannot see you are well and truly corrected, so be it, but hopefully others can see you must have your hands over your eyes and ears right now, to not see what is declared right in front of you.

 

[gordon777]

I try to stay away from opinion. Opinion is our idea of what is right or what is wrong. God gave us a book that is his opinion, better to go with that. For sure sin can wreck your life, don't do it.

Not quite full enough information.

God gave more than opinion, God gave works.

The works testify of Jesus Christ.

The Jews did not believe in those works.

If we had only opinion, we would have only the same as people have and give, which is as you said, opinion of what is right or wrong, and just an opinion, never an actuality.


That is why if anyone truly stayed away from opinion of man, they would also have to stay away from forums. ( and the entire world of opinion.) and remain only in the work of the Lord.

Exodus 9:16
And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.


Look at this testimony below ( for anyone on the forum) how Israel saw that great work that God did upon Egypt. ( they they feared and believed in the Lord.) and read how God did this through His great power to DECLARE HIS NAME throughout all the earth.



Exodus 14:31 And Israel saw that great work which the Lord did upon the Egyptians: and the people feared the Lord, and believed the Lord, and his servant Moses.

Romans 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.



Pay attention ( anyone on the forum) as I will not be here much longer.

The Father shows all things to the Son, and will show Him greater works than those, that the disciples may marvel. ( may believe.)

The greater witness that the Son has, are the works the Father gave the Son to finish. ( on the cross declaring it is finished and gave up the Ghost.) These same works that Christ does. ( which He fulfilled in finishing them on the cross.) bear witness of Him that the Father sent Him.



John 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

John 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.



The works bear witness of the Son who did all these in the Fathers name. ( the Jews who had believed in the name declared in Egypt, believed not in the Son.) Jesus told them, they believe not because they are not His sheep. Hi sheep hear His voice and He knows them and they follow Him.

But the Son declared unto the disciples ( His sheep) His name, and would declare it ( through His power on the cross. As God had previously declared HIs name in Egypt with HIs power on Pharoah. Hebrews 7:16.) for the love of the Father to be in HIs sheep, and that is the Son in them.

A man then can say they will show us their faith without works, ( not believing in these works of the Lord fulfilled) but we are shown faith by those works. ( the greater works that the Son of God did on the cross.)



John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

John 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

 

[Highway54]

I try to stay away from opinion. Opinion is our idea of what is right or what is wrong. God gave us a book that is his opinion, better to go with that. For sure sin can wreck your life, don't do it.

Whether you admit it or not Robert, any time you post anything other than Scripture, or if it is an altered passage, it is simply opinion that is either true or false. God's word is truth sir, and only it is, everything else is just a statement of opinion.

 

[Tenchi]

Just as all of Israel failed to hear God, so forums these days ( those who say they are a Christian) seem to do just the same.

Uh huh. The pot calling the kettle black, here...

God told Israel to hearken, because a law would proceed from God, and God will make His judgement rest for a light of the people. ( of all people)

God tells further, to bind up the testimony, and seal the law ( which would proceed from the Lord) among His disciples. It is to the law and to the testimony, if they ( anyone) does not speak according to that word, it is because there is no light in them. ( no testimony, no law)




Isaiah 51:4 Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.

Isaiah 8:16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.




Israel did not hearken to the words of God, ( that a ,law would proceed from the Lord.) as they did not hearken to His law, they rejected His law and HIs words. ( of a law proceeding from the Lord God.)

God testified anyway, how Israel had never continued ( kept) HIs covenant He had made with all the people of Israel, ( they broke HIs covenant) but God would make a new covenant ( the law that proceeded out from the Lord.) and God puts His laws in the inward parts, writing the law in the hearts, to be God to Israel, and they to be HIs people.



Jeremiah 6:19 Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it.

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.




God would have mercy on the house of Judah and save them by the Lord their God, and will not save them by bow nor sword nor by battle, by horses nor by horsemen.

God declared Israel is not HIs people, and He will not be their God.

Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, and it would come to pass in the place where it was said unto them, they are not His people, there it shall be said unto them, they are the sons of the living God. ( Then the people appoint themselves one head. Jesus Christ, who was faithful to Him who appointed Him as Moses was faithful in all his house.)

The word of the Lord, not by might, nor by power, but by HIs Spirit, says the Lord of hosts.

The great mountain becomes a plain before Zerubbabel, he shall brings forth the headstone, crying, grace, grace unto it.



Hosea 1:7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the Lord their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
8 Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.
9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.

Zechariah 4:6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.
7 Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.




God further testified, His people are destroyed for lack of knowledge, and they shall be no priest to God, because they have forgotten the law of their God, God will also forget their children.

Again Israel is told to behold, ( hearken) as God would send His messenger to prepare the way before the Lord, and the messenger of the covenant ( of the law proceeding from the Lord/the law written in the heart and mind) shall come.

He is as a refiner and purifier of silver, to purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, so they can offer to the Lord an offering in righteousness. ( righteousness is not seen on the outside as Pharisees, it is when the hearts are changed, then they can offer in righteousness to the Lord.)

God comes near to them in judgement against the false swearers and adulterers. ( Matthew 5:28. 5:34.)

God declares even form the days of their fathers they are gone away from the ordinances ( the law) of God and have not kept them.

God declares the whole nation ( Pharisees to come) have robbed God in tithes and offerings and are cursed, even the whole nation. ( the Pharisees display themselves cursed in tithes and offerings in their false "keeping" of the law. Matthew 23:23.)




Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Yikes, you've got a bad habit of off-point blathering...

 

[Tenchi]

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.
4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the Lord, as in the days of old, and as in former years.
5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the Lord of hosts.
6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.




Now in the message of the covenant, Jesus declares to these ( cursed) Pharisees, who had said the people who do not know the law as them are cursed, ( John 7:49.) that John prepared His way before Him. The Pharisees who never believed in the law of God did not believe in the messenger of the covenant ( the law which proceeded forth from God.) and the Pharisees rejected the counsel of God against themselves. ( as God had declared all Israel had rejected His law. Jeremiah 6:19.)

Stephen ( full o the Holy Ghost) reveals Israel ( Pharisees) as stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears. ( they who break the law are counted as uncircumcised/Pharisees. Romans 2:26.) who resist the Holy Ghost as their fathers did. ( breaking Gods law)

They persecuted the prophets of the Lord, showing the coming of the Lord of whom they were also the betrayers and murderers, they received the law by the disposition of angels, they NEVER KEPT IT.




John 7:48 Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on him?
49 But this people who knoweth not the law are cursed.

Luke 7:27 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

You do go on... Amazing. Anyway, I don't read pointless and near-endless diatribes, so whatever you had to say here I'm afraid I've just ignored. Sorry about that. Maybe write less but more on-point.

 

[Tenchi]

Tenchi seems unaware that all scripture testifies of Christ, and Christ being the messenger of the Covenant brought the same Covenant to all people.

It seems you don't understand that statements/promises/warnings made by God to particular individuals or groups in Scripture were for them, not for others. It seems also that you don't understand the difference between an Old Covenant and a New one.

By the way, your remark here and what followed it in your post was just another obvious deflection from my point. If you've got no effective response, trying to hide this fact in off-point blathering just makes your lack of response more obvious, you know.

No need for you to desperately claim someone is twisting scripture. ( due to not understanding it yet.)

Oh, but there is. You've contorted Scripture consistently and badly. This warrants comment, I think.

If you cannot see you are well and truly corrected, so be it, but hopefully others can see you must have your hands over your eyes and ears right now, to not see what is declared right in front of you.

LOL! I think what they see is that the one with his eyes and ears covered is you.

By the way, you might want to look up the phrase "passive aggressive."

 

[Robert Pate]

Whether you admit it or not Robert, any time you post anything other than Scripture, or if it is an altered passage, it is simply opinion that is either true or false. God's word is truth sir, and only it is, everything else is just a statement of opinion.

I agree with you. I try to back up everything with scripture.

 

[gordon777]

It seems you don't understand that statements/promises/warnings made by God to particular individuals or groups in Scripture were for them, not for others. It seems also that you don't understand the difference between an Old Covenant and a New one.

By the way, your remark here and what followed it in your post was just another obvious deflection from my point. If you've got no effective response, trying to hide this fact in off-point blathering just makes your lack of response more obvious, you know.



Oh, but there is. You've contorted Scripture consistently and badly. This warrants comment, I think.



LOL! I think what they see is that the one with his eyes and ears covered is you.

By the way, you might want to look up the phrase "passive aggressive."

Tenchi has shown he thinks law keeping was done by Pharisees.

I will educate us all. ( by the scriptures)

The Son of man came in the flesh ( which the antichrist spirit denies and does not confess) to be wounded for our transgressions, and was cut off from the land of the living ( from the flesh) for the transgressions of HIs people ( Israel.) he was numbered with the transgressors ( which was fulfilled) he bare the sin of many and made intercession for the transgressors.

( just to state the obvious, as it seems necessary for Tenchi/to avoid room for debate, those who commit sin transgress also the law, for sin is the transgression/non keeping of the law.)




Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Isaiah 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Mark 15:28 And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.




Also all of the old testament declares how all of Israel had transgressed against God.

The Son of man full of power by the Spirit of the Lord,came ( in the flesh) to declare unto Jacob their transgression and to Israel their sin.

In that day ( when the Son of man was present in Israel) they are made ashamed of all their actions, that they have transgressed against God, and God takes out of the middle of Israel the prideful ones, to be no more haughty. (n because of Christ, His Holy Mountain.)




Ezekiel 2:3 And he said unto me, Son of man, I send thee to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that hath rebelled against me: they and their fathers have transgressed against me, even unto this very day.

Micah 3:8 But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the Lord, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin.

Zephaniah 3:11 In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain.





Now this is the part where Tenchi somehow thinks he can support a position against all testimony of scripture, revealing the extent of law breaking of all in Israel, ( especially the hypocritical Pharisees Jesus constantly has to rebuke.)


The Pharisees try to follow the law to stone the woman caught in adultery to death. Jesus ( who came to convince Israel of their transgression and sin) declares how they who are without sin to cast the first stone.

Then Jesus afterwards tells the Pharisees they shall die in their sins ( they are transgressors of the law/doubters of truth) for not believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

John 15 shows the incredibly naive position of Tenchi doctrine. How on earth can the Pharisee keep the law, they are preached to by Christ ( who came to make the law honourable and magnified and fulfilled. Isaiah 42:21. Matthew 5:17.) they failed to believe the law even, as they had seen and hated both the Son and the Father. This came to pass what was written in the law the Pharisees had, they hated Jesus without any reason. ( is this Tenchis reason of the Pharisees keeping the law the Pharisees are fulfilling being murderers in ?)




John 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.

John 15:24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

John 15:25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

 

[gordon777]

But the testimony goes on ( somehow does this show Tenchi to be right, that the Pharisee is a law keeper ?)

The Pharisees were confused by their own law, but Jesus reveals to them it is lawful to always do well, but the Pharisees are not seen as acknowledging that Jesus was right, instead they do further wrong to take council to destroy Christ.

Then the Pharisees demand a sign from Christ. Christ answers them, they are an adulterous evil generation. ( Children in whom is no faith/not law keeping. Deuteronomy 32:20)




Matthew 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
13 Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.
14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.

Matthew 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:




Here again the Pharisees ( law keepers according to Tenchi) accuse Christ and His disciples of transgressing, but Christ told them, they are the ones who transgress the commandment of God. ( not keep the law and commandments of God) but in vain the Pharisees are told they worship, teaching for doctrine the commandments of men.

The Pharisees ( as always) are offended, Jesus shows they are blind leaders of the blind, they are not what God has planted and shall be rooted up. ( somehow Tenchi's position, has the blind Pharisee keeping the law of the Lord, and also showing in blindness how others should be blind, to keep the same law. Psalm 82:5.)




Matthew 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matthew 15:12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.




I did educate Tenchi of his scripture idea that the Pharisee paying tithes of anise and cummin was fulfilling the curse of Israel who robed Gd in tithes and offerings ( even the whole nation.0 I did try to show how when Christ says woe to the Pharisees ( it is because they have broken the law, not kept it.) they are in trouble.

Here again in Matthew, is the same woe for the Pharisees ( who Tenchi maintains are keepers of the law) but they shut up heaven against men, the Pharisees do not enter, the Pharisee devours widows houses and make pretense prayers, they search sea and land to make children of hell. ( these of course are Pharisee law keepers)

The Pharisee are summed up by the Lord Jesus Christ as serpents, a generation of vipers. ( going to hell)

All the blood shed upon the earth comes on that generation ( of the Pharisees) as their fathers killed the messengers and then betrayed and murdered Christ ( the messenger of the covenant, which the Pharisees then broke even entirely.)




Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

 

[gordon777]

LOL! I think what they see is that the one with his eyes and ears covered is you.

By the way, you might want to look up the phrase "passive aggressive."

the Pharisees having a veneer of law keeping.

But of course the verse below of Matthew 23:23, ( and all Jesus did and spoke) is a fulfilment of the law and prophets, and this is from of Malachi 3.

The messenger prepares the way of the Lord. ( fulfilled.)

Israel ( who received the messenger) are told they have gone away from the ordinances of God. ( NOT KEPT THEM.)

To return to God, but they say beforehand, where shall we return ?

God declares they (the whole nation) have robed God in tithes and offerings, and are CURSED.

Jesus ( the messenger of the covenant) tells the nation of Israel, and the Pharisees specifically, ( Pharisees, declared by Jesus Christ are the blind leaders of the blind. Matthew 15:12-14.) woe unto the Pharisees, hypocrites, who pay tithe of mint, anise and cummin.

That is the fulfilment of what is declared in Malachi 3, of the whole nation of Israel, ( Israel, the blind, led by blind leaders/the Pharisees.) robbing God in tithes, and the whole nation gone away from the ordinances ( laws) of God and HAVE NOT KEPT THEM.



Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.

Malachi 3:7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.



Mark 1:2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

 

[gordon777]

Finally then, what does it mean to be in Christ ?


It 100 percent, is not talk on forums, that is established...



2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

Jude 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

 

[Robert Pate]

Finally then, what does it mean to be in Christ ?


It 100 percent, is not talk on forums, that is established...



2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

Jude 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

To be "In Christ" is to be free from laws, rules and religion. Paul said, "The just (justified) shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. Living by faith is not living like a law keeping Pharisee. Under the New Covenant God sees his people as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. If you are still trying to be good enough to be saved by keeping the law then you are under the law and will be judged by the law and condemned, Galatians 3:10.

 

[gordon777]

To be "In Christ" is to be free from LAWS, RULES and RELIGION. Paul said, "The just (justified) shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. Living by faith is not living like a LAW KEEPING PHARISEE. Under the New Covenant God sees his people as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. If you are still trying to be good enough to be saved by KEEPING THE LAW then you are UNDER THE LAW and will be JUDGED BY THE LAW and condemned, Galatians 3:10.

I just wrote a new thread on Galatians in theology.


Interestingly enough, it all stems from those who seek glory in men, and not in God. ( go read and see)



We are instructed to be none otherwise minded: as he that troubles us shall BEAR HIS JUDGEMENT, whosoever they be.

Apostle Paul preaches not circumcision/glory in men, as the offence of the cross would cease and Paul would not suffer persecution for it.


The gospel we should follow is all we heard in Apostle Paul, ( the persecutions of the cross of Christ.) and Apostle Paul testifies we are under the law/rule to Christ, to not be constrained by those who do not seek to suffer persecution for the cross of Christ, ( as they themselves KEEP NO LAW) and they seek glory in men. ( 1 Corinthians 9:21.)

But God forbid shows the Apostle Paul, of the glory they seek, when the glory we heard Apostle Paul seeks, is in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. ( the world crucified to him and he unto the world.)

What avails in Jesus Christ, ( what it means to be in Christ.) is a new creature.

As many as walk according to that RULE/LAW of Christ, peace on them, and mercy upon the Israel of God.



Galatians 5:10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.
11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

Galatians 6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.


James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

 

[gordon777]

Does anyone see now, how to be free from those who seek glory in men, and to then only have glory in God ? ( the new thread, of how to know who glories in men, reveals they are false brothers, preaching another gospel and to let them be accursed.)

 

[gordon777]

If nobody can acknowledge the truth, does that show the forums as a place for glory of God, or glory of men.

 

[gordon777]

Then what is the word on what does it mean to be in Christ ?

It has just been covered that it is neither the doctrine of the law, nor without law. (these both it is proven, avail of nothing.)

It is both the circumcision and the uncircumcision being justified through faith.

Because circumcision and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. ( through faith.)

Then if any man is in Christ, ( the thread, what does it mean to be in Christ.) they are a new creature, old things ( ways) are passed away, behold, all things are become new. ( new ways.)

For in Christ Jesus ( the thread/what does it mean to be in Christ ?) neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails of anything, but faith, which works by love. ( no love of God dwelling in us, no faith. 1 John 4:16.)

For in Christ Jesus, ( the thread question, what does it mean to be in Christ.) neither circumcision ( in the law) nor uncircumcision, ( without law) avails of anything, but a new creature.


There is neither circumcision, ( the law) nor uncircumcision, ( without law) but Christ is all, and in all. ( to be the new creature, in faith which works by love, to keep the commandments of Christ/bear one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ)



Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Colossians 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

 

[Robert Pate]

Good to see that you are seeking the truth concerning Christ and his Gospel.

Many tend to make the mistake of believing that 2 Corinthians 5:17 is about the Christian life. It is far more than that. When Jesus walked out of Joseph's new tomb our new humanity walked out with him. We are new creations because Jesus is God's new creation. God sees ALL THINGS in Jesus Christ. All that have come to Christ to be saved by him are "In Christ" God sees them as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. Many are offended by this because it is the end of their religion. We cannot make ourselves any better than what we already are in Jesus Christ.