What if Adam had not sinned ?

[jasoncran]

god gets the glory yes, but do you really know that he creates people for destruction. why even give them a will then?
first i dont buy the concept of irrestable grace, men do resist it.
see athiesm and other world views.


are you a hypercavinist?

 

[jasoncran]

using that thought, you could say that GOD created satan as the devil.

 

[glorydaz]

using that thought, you could say that GOD created satan as the devil.

Didn't you know? One of the attributes of God is deviousness. :biglaugh

 

[savedbygrace57]

using that thought, you could say that GOD created satan as the devil.

God created all and everything for Jesus christ col 1:

16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

And Yes, that includes the devil, God had a purpose for Him too.

 

[savedbygrace57]

The Fall of Adam



The Fall of Adam did nothing but prove that The world and Adam were created for a redemptive purpose in christ Jesus.



Col 1:



16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:



17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.



The world was not created for Adam, but for Christ and His redemptive purpose.

 

[jasoncran]

using that thought, you could say that GOD created satan as the devil.

God created all and everything for Jesus christ col 1:

16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

And Yes, that includes the devil, God had a purpose for Him too.

ah, but he didnt, the devil wasnt a created, he rather was an angel that choose to rebel, and others along with him
by your saying that, then is GOD evil?

 

[jasoncran]

then why are you asking the question?

i dont agree with that conclusion. if adam stayed and not sinned, God would have still gotten the glory that he deserves

 

[savedbygrace57]

then why are you asking the question?

i dont agree with that conclusion. if adam stayed and not sinned, God would have still gotten the glory that he deserves

Gods First and Foremost Glory desired was that which the redeeming blood of Christ brings Him.


rev 7:

11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

This was more important in Gods Heart than adam not sinning.

 

[jasoncran]

he didnt plan it that way, of course you dont accept free will
god's ability for see and also foreknew and plan according to that is a mystery to those (us) with a finite mind.all without denying freewill.

 

[savedbygrace57]

jason:

he didnt plan it that way,

Yes He did. Show the scripture that said He did not.

 

[savedbygrace57]

All things created for [ unto] Christ Jesus --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

col 1:

16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for [unto]him:

17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

This indicates that Christ is the end of all creation [ to include Adam], All things were created unto Him for His possession.

Creation was subjectively related to Christ, the creation was created in Him, through Him and unto Him.

 

[jasoncran]

does that mean, that god creates and does evil? by your interpretation then yes.

god created satan to be evil, therefore doesnt that make god evil.

is that what you are saying

you dont believe in free will

let's go there. if you say we cant resist God's grace and in other threads you have said that we have no choice to be saved

question #1
does God type for you, think for you
#2

can he deny himself, see the Gospels and the verse himself he cant deny

#3

why the cross if he simply created some to simply die and others unto salvation.?

 

[savedbygrace57]

All things were created for Jesus christ redemptive purpose Col 1:

16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Satan is included, His principalties eph 6:

12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 

[jasoncran]

so you have come to the conclusion that the lord is evil, then

if i create a weapon with the sole purpose of automatically killing as its own discrimation so as to wipe out a certain section of the populous deliberately, and for no good reason other than cause i want to. yet claim that i'm innoncent because i only set thing in motion. would you call me good?

what does the bible say about the lord is longsuffering and not wanting to see the lost perish. does that mean everyone?

 

[savedbygrace57]

The world was created for Jesus christ and by Jesus christ for a redemptive purpose, to show case the unsearchable riches of Christ !

eph 3:

8Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

If this is True, then God purposed sin into the world by adam's sin ! The purpose of the world would not be fulfilled if Adam had not sinned, for God wanted to be Glorifed through Jesus christ dying on the cross..

Jn 17:1


These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

 

[mondar]

The world was created for Jesus christ and by Jesus christ for a redemptive purpose, to show case the unsearchable riches of Christ !

eph 3:

8Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

If this is True, then God purposed sin into the world by adam's sin ! The purpose of the world would not be fulfilled if Adam had not sinned, for God wanted to be Glorifed through Jesus christ dying on the cross..

Jn 17:1


These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

I think you are getting things more on track here. The OP asks what would have happened if Adam had not sinned. I assume that you are still thinking in terms of Adams federal headship. Of course the question assumes something that God did not want to happen, and cannot be correctly answered. If Adam had not fallen, God would not have manifest his grace in saving we undeserving rebels who have sinned against God by act and by nature. Neither would the glory of God be manifest in God judging sin. If Adam had not sinned, God would not manifest his wonderful attributes to be adored for all eternity. If Adam had not sinned, we would not be able to suffer like Christ.

In your post above, you answer why the question you posed in the OP is flawed. This universe was planned in eternity past, and created for Gods glory.

 

[jasoncran]

interesting calvanistic view of that. he had to allow adam to be able to sin.

but did he make him to sin, none of you have answered that.

 

[mondar]

interesting calvanistic view of that. he had to allow adam to be able to sin.

but did he make him to sin, none of you have answered that.

Jasoncran, I just noticed your total number of posts. Over 7k posts in less then one year. Quite remarkable. Ya passed me out flying. Oh, and by the way......Calvanistic = Calvinistic

Calvinists do not believe that God helped Adam or "made" Adam to sin. God decreed that Adam would sin. He did this for his own purpose. God also decreed that the brothers of Joseph would put him in a pit, so that Joseph might save many.

Gen 50:19 And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God?
Gen 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.
Certainly God decrees evil. It was no accident that Joseph was sold into slavery in Egypt. Certainly God intended it all along. Yet God did not put him in the pit. He did not magically make the brothers more evil. God did not assist the brothers in their evil in any way. But in the text Joseph is saying God decreed that his slavery would come to pass when he said "God meant it for good, to bring to pass as it is this day, to save much people alive." God can and does decree evil, but does not participate in the sin. Does that work for you?

 

[jasoncran]

he allows evil, if that the point yes. adam was allowed to have free will to sin.The lord knew this and turned it around. is that what your are saying?

 

[jasoncran]

i have no life, i dont watch tv. havent since the cancellation stargate altantis. as i noticed that most of the shows have become too hedonistic for me.