What if Adam had not sinned ?

[savedbygrace57]

As the New Covenant Blessings or Everlasting Covenant were for sinners, Adam in the beginning before sinning was not ready for the communication of them, not until after He sinned and came to know of His wretchedness and Nakedness [ cp rev 3:17 with gen 3:9-11].

I believe after sinning, it was then a Spiritual Knowledge was given them[ Adam and Eve], and a partaking of the blessings of the Everlasting Covenant or New Covenant, for it was at this set time, the Gospel [ though in a nutshell] was preached [gen 3:15]; and this gospel was premised on the then Everlasting Covenant and the blood of it [ heb 13:20] and the later revealed New Covenant [matt 26:28] and the blood of it.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Matt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect !

Matt 5:48

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

After God had created Adam, the annoucement from Him was that Man was very good [gen 1:31] , but He did not say he was perfect.

Gods Purpose for Man was beyond him just being very good, but that He would be perfect !

It was that he would be this:

eph 1:

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This end was not to be found in Adam !
​

 

[sherri2]

If you look up the word for 'perfect' it can also just mean 'complete' or 'whole'. Before Adam sinned there was nothing wrong with him (hence, no death). Eve either.

However let satan the devil loose in the garden of eden and go for a walk and what do you think is going to happen?

Satan vs people. Hmmm

God knows the end from the beginning, he's outside of time. It was always his plan for sin to enter the world because how else could he test our hearts via freewill. To reject sin you have to know what it is. Personally. (And the consequences.)

 

[savedbygrace57]

If you look up the word for 'perfect' it can also just mean 'complete' or 'whole'. Before Adam sinned there was nothing wrong with him (hence, no death). Eve either.

However let satan the devil loose in the garden of eden and go for a walk and what do you think is going to happen?

Satan vs people. Hmmm

God knows the end from the beginning, he's outside of time. It was always his plan for sin to enter the world because how else could he test our hearts via freewill. To reject sin you have to know what it is. Personally. (And the consequences.)

Adam and Eve were not made Perfect, if they would have been, they would not have sinned.

 

[savedbygrace57]

sherri:

However let satan the devil loose in the garden of eden and go for a walk and what do you think is going to happen?

What happened to the Man Jesus Christ in similar circumstances ?

Lk 4:

1And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,


2Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.

3And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.

4And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

5And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

6And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

7If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

8And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

9And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:

10For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee:

11And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

12And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
13And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.

 

[smaller]

Glad to see at least some believers 'see' the workings of the serpent in the Garden.

MOST become locked into various forms of condemnation against Adam and/or Eve and they totally ignore the workings of the serpent. Look the serpent is SATAN.

Jesus taught us ALL (supposedly) what happens where The Word is sown. There is really no reason NOT to apply what we have been taught to what happened in the Garden:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Matthew 13:19
When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Luke 8:12
Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Let's add some more scriptural facts to these matters:

Adam was Gods son. (Luke 3:38)
Sins are not counted against mankind (2 Cor. 5:19)

Paul taught us 'how' Adam (and all of us) was planted or SOWN:

1 Cor. 15:

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

What then do we see in Adam?

We see that Adam's body was formed of DUST. Earthy. Natural. WE also in the above see our own sowing in likewise manner. Sown in a DUST body, earthy, natural.

It was never Gods Divine Intentions to LEAVE ADAM IN THE DUST. That was the PLANTING or the SOWING of Gods son, Adam. Into 'weakness,' 'corruption,' and 'dishonour.' That was ADAM'S NATURAL PLANTING.

Let's look at this condition. God breathed HIS LIVING SPIRIT into that DUST of Adam making Adam a son of God therein, yet in planted or sown in DUST. That is the fist stage of Adam. The 'natural' condition of him. God had and always has had the FULL INTENTIONS of the LATTER STAGE of Adam, that being the SPIRITUAL ADAM. Raised incorruptible, in glory, power and in HONOR in a SPIRITUAL BODY. This RAISING was done IN Gods Son, Jesus, FIRST. Jesus was the FIRST FRUIT of this matter.

In looking at what happened to Adam we should be VERY aware of what Jesus taught us in these matters.

The Word of BLESSING was sown IN ADAM by God.

Now, please pay attention or you will get STOLEN FROM.

Where THE WORD IS SOWN, what happens according to Jesus? WHO enters the hearts and minds to STEAL?

Yes, that would SATAN. That is exactly what 'happened' to the natural, the weak, the corruptible, the DISHONOURABLE DUST of Adam. Gods Words were sown therein and SATAN entered his DUST. How soon do you ask? Look again at what Jesus said:

IMMEDIATELY.

NOW, how is it we KNOW for a FACT that SATAN entered Adam?

That too is easy to see. We know that SATAN is 'the lawless one.' What is spoken to ADAM immediately AFTER the BLESSING?

Ah, we find Gods Words of LAW. What was THAT LAW? 'DO NOT EAT.' That LAW also carried a DEATH PENALTY to the DUST of Adam. The LAW was in fact for the LAWLESS ONE that had IMMEDIATELY entered Adam. Think on this for awhile before attempting to respond with any clarity.

I believe what Jesus taught was TRUE as it pertains to Adam, Gods Words of blessings being SOWN, and SATAN'S subsequent entry. The lawless one entered that DUST and DEFILED it and THE LAW of DO NOT EAT was then delivered. We can read in Romans 7 from Paul about what SIN does in relation to the LAW. It was NO different of a working IN ADAM. The LAW was always meant to PROVOKE the LAWLESS ONE into BREAKING the LAW. That working starts IN THE MIND as LAWLESS THOUGHTS.

Another effect of this sowing of Gods Words and entry of SATAN is shown as God 'causing' a deep sleep to come upon Adam. We can read of a similar matter in Romans 11, where, as pertaining to unbelieving Israel, that GOD PLACED A SPIRIT OF SLUMBER upon them so that they could NOT believe. We also know from 2 Cor. 4:4 that it is the 'god of this world,' yes, that would be SATAN, who BLINDS MINDS of unbelievers. This exact matter is also shown in many other places in the text. Jesus sowing His Words in Peter for example, and then SATAN speaking from Peter. Or Jesus Sowing His Words in Judas, and SATAN entering Judas.

This is A DIVINE PRINCIPLE. Even a principle upon which THE CHURCH is built upon. That principle is again as Jesus taught:

WHERE THE WORD IS SOWN, then SATAN enters. THEN COMES THE LAW, then the result of the spirit of SLUMBER and of BLINDING and of NOT hearing or understanding. From the Word of blessing onWARD we should understand SATAN ENTERED ADAM.

I hope you are following the events closely here. Word sown, the LAW of Gods Words meant to be against and to provoke LAWLESSNESS and EMPOWER SIN then the spirit of SLUMBER upon Adam. This is THE REALITY of the COURSE OF EVENTS that God Himself SET into MOTION in this present world. These SAME PRINCIPLES continue to THIS MOMENT. These matters are NOT only about God and Adam, but about God/Adam and Satan-the serpent.

The next stage of NON-understanding or 'understanding it NOT' is demonstrated in Eve. When in dialog with the SERPENT Eve could not account the COMMAND correctly. She ADDED to Gods Words and said they could not even TOUCH the Tree. God did NOT say that. So now we have SIN in WORD.

By the time we get to actually EATING the fruit, the results of sin were EXTERNALIZED into an action of SIN where it was viewable, which thereby PROVED out their planting, their being sown into WEAKNESS, CORRUPTION and DISHONOUR.

From the point that GODS WORDS were SOWN in Adam we should NOT rightfully view Adam as ALONE in these matter if we are to get a more accurate view. Satan-the serpent WAS involved with them MUCH EARLIER than the 'casual viewer' will see. We should take the teachings of Jesus TO THE GARDEN to understand WHAT HAPPENED.

I could go on into observing the interactions between Adam, Eve and God in the Garden, but no one will understand those actions unless and until they can see THE SERPENT with them BOTH....which caused them to HIDE...but WHO was hiding from God, really?

The SERPENT was already HIDING in A & E, compelling them to COVER themselves with 'fig' leaves to show their supposed fruitfulness on the outside, but they were ashamed on the inside. GOD KNEW that A&E had SINNED and WHY. The SERPENT had taken up occupancy.

Food for spiritual thoughts.

The PROOF of the existence of the ACCUSER and CONDEMNER OF THE BRETHREN is born out in those WHO BLAME ADAM AND EVE and IGNORE the role, existence and workings of THE SERPENT in THEM and in themselves.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Bob Carabbio]

And what if Pigs had wings?

Then you wouldn't need trucks to get 'em to market - just long leashes.

Gut feel - Adam ALREADY HAD "Eternal life" - that's what "Died" when he chose satan in stead of God.

 

[smaller]

Re: And what if Pigs had wings?

Then you wouldn't need trucks to get 'em to market - just long leashes.

Gut feel - Adam ALREADY HAD "Eternal life" - that's what "Died" when he chose satan in stead of God.

Wasn't eternal life then eh?

 

[Pard]

Does it matter if Adam had sinned? The question ought to be "what if Lucifer had not fallen?". In that case then Adam would never had sinned and sin would have never entered into humanity and we would all be hunky dory in Heaven with God.

Adam sinned because of the serpent.

The serpent was Satan.

Satan is Lucifer post-falling.

Had Lucifer not fallen, no Satan, and so no sin.

 

[coffeeelover]

What if God had not created imperfect beings destined to be imperfect and fail to live up to a perfect standard?

If if's and buts were candy and nuts we would all have a Merry Christmas.

 

[Pard]

If if's and buts were candy and nuts we would all have a Merry Christmas.

Except me, I don't eat candy or nuts

I don't know if God made "imperfect" beings because that implies we were made in a way He did not want us to be made. God made us so He could love us and so we could love Him. Love can only be given freely and so He made us with the ability to freely decide. Adam freely deciding to sin.

Though I agree that the game of "what if" is a silly game to play because what's done is done and there is no undoing it. Besides, the whole question kind of pokes question at God's plan, doesn't it?

Seriously, God knew this would happen. He let it happen. Why? Love. He loved us so much He let us make our own choices (Just likes parents need to love their children enough to let them go). Now He is combing through our ranks looking for those willing to freely love Him. I'd argue that we love God FAR more than Adam did, and so God's plan is working, because He has allowed us to function on our own and yet our love for Him has only grown!

 

[savedbygrace57]

pard:

Does it matter if Adam had sinned?

Why should it not matter ? Does it matter if you sinned or me ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

pard:

Seriously, God knew this would happen. He let it happen.

He determined it would happen lest you believe He could not have prevented it.

You said:

God let it happen to show He loved us and to let us make our own choices !

I do not see how that meant God Loved us, to see that one would make the wrong choice and cause death and misery.

Lets suppose for a moment, that you had the ability to make a dear beloved child, and after making that child, you placed them in a situation whereby if they disobeyed you would have to torment them forever without mercy.

Now, you know of a certainty that your beloved child is going to make that choice, for you see it already being done.

Now, with that in Mind, would you go ahead and create that beloved child out of love ?

And if you do, then was it not your determination to do so ?

 

[Elijah674]

Don't let 'perfect' be the enemy of 'very good'.

Lucifer was created perfect & Adam very good, PERFECT.. unless one thinks that the Godhead created any faulty creation? But this perfection was not MATURE FREE WILL PERFECTION. This needed to be developed. Mankind are no robots.

And the thread question? God knew in Eternity that both Lucifer + Adam would not Mature to be safe to save, just Adam with the Everlasting Gospel plan would do so. Rev. 14:6

And if either had not sinned? The Word of God would have been recorded diffently is all.

--Elijah

 

[smaller]

Lucifer was created perfect

--Elijah

A perfect DEVIL is still A DEVIL.

 

[Sissy]

Eve was deceived. Adam was not. (1 Timothy 2:14)



The Leviticus sacrifices included a sacrifice for a sin by ignorance (Eve) and also a sacrifice for a willful sin (Adam).
So both could have been covered.

But the story of Adam & Eve is a prophetic type of what the last Adam (Christ) would do.

Adam's bride was deceived into sin. She was then in a fallen state. Her nature had changed.
Adam was still in a perfect state, a sinless nature.
But if Adam had not willingly taken the sin on himself, then he would have been eternally separated from his bride.
For Eve would have been kicked out of the garden, eternally separated from Adam.

In like manner, Christ changed his nature (became flesh as his bride was) and willingly let sin be placed on himself so that he would not be eternally separated from his bride.


Also ....

1 Timothy 2
(13) For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
(14) And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
(15) Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
​

If Adam had not taken sin upon himself, he and Eve would have been eternally separated.
No children would have been born to them.
And therefore, no possibility of the promised Messiah to cover the sin of his bride and unite them eternally.

 

[savedbygrace57]

elijah:

Lucifer was created perfect

No he was not created perfect, but perfect in his ways ! ezk 28:15

Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

There was iniquity found in him, when God creates a perfect being, there will be no iniquity found in them.

Like His Only Begotten Son, there was no iniquity found in Him, Thats Perfection.

 

[savedbygrace57]

sissy:

Eve was deceived. Adam was not. (1 Timothy 2:14)

And eve was in the transgression ! 1 Tim 2:

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

 

[savedbygrace57]

sissy:

But the story of Adam & Eve is a prophetic type of what the last Adam (Christ) would do.

It was also illustrative of what Christ was too. Christ as Adam, had a seed in Him, His bride !

Adam was a figure, a type of Him to come.

 

[Bazz1040]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have you ever wondered that if Adam would not have sinned, and lived a perfect sin free life, if He would have inherited eternal life ?


If Adam [Mankind] had remained unfallen, without transgression, then He nor men in him could have entered that Kingdom of Eternal Glory to which all believers in Christ were destined before the foundation Matt 25:

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

2 tim 4:18

And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

At best, the life we had in Adam was earthly 1 cor 15:

46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

So if Adam would have continued perfect in the flesh and blood he was created in, He could not inherit the kingdom of God, prepared for the sheep from the foundation, remember, at his best, Adam was still flesh and blood..

hebrews 2 :

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood [In Adam], he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

And scripture says this 1 cor 15:

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

So Man at His best unfallen state in flesh and blood, cannot inherit the kingdom of God..

As Jesus said, except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God, even Adam, in His unfallen state needed to be born again if He was to inherit the Kingdom of Glory..

That is not true. Even if Adam and Eve did not sin God's plan for mankind would still be the same.