What if Adam had not sinned ?

[Bubba]

Re: Adam was suppose to sin !

Many people do not understand, but Adam was suppose to sin, to make way for Gods Greater and Eternal Purpose through Christ. Eph 3:


9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Adam was created subservient to the Eternal Redemptive Purpose of Christ and the Mystery of the Gentiles.

8Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

That is, Adams sin and bringing sin into the world was needful and important for the grander purpose of preaching the unsearchable riches of Christ !

Savebygrace,
Romans 8:20 also supports that Adam and Eve were going to fail in the temptation; "For the creation was subjected to vanity, not of its own will, but by reason of him who subjected it, in hope".
Bubba

 

[savedbygrace57]

Re: Adam was suppose to sin !

Savebygrace,
Romans 8:20 also supports that Adam and Eve were going to fail in the temptation; "For the creation was subjected to vanity, not of its own will, but by reason of him who subjected it, in hope".
Bubba

Yes exactly, because it was created for the purpose of redemption through Christ !

 

[littlelight]

I can't add anything to the main theme of this discussion. I just want to comment to those that say that Adam and Eve could not sin untill after they at the fruit. Right on! I know that this will not convince those that believe otherwise but here goes.

Deut 1:39-40
39 'Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I will give it, and they shall possess it.
NKJV

So God does not hold people accountable untill they become emotionaly mature. But I still think everyone has referred to Adam's sin (mistake -not a sin against God) as eating the fruit. His original mistake was not believing God. His rebelion that got him expelled happened after he became like God .

Gen 3:10
10 So he said, "I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself."
NKJV

When Adam first found out he probably said "I AM naked" after that he rebelled because God made him naked and that was the way he was supposed to be. Naturally after the fall man could not remain naked. So Adam's mistake was not believing God and his first sin against God was not accepting God's will.

So you see our awareness of our existance apart from God's creation is the sin all of us are born with. Naturally since we are aware of our existance it means that we become very aware of our wants, which are in opposition to God's desire for us. That's why the cure for our sin is to "LOVE" love God above all and love our brothers as God loved us. If we do that we kill our own wants.

 

[smaller]

I can't add anything to the main theme of this discussion. I just want to comment to those that say that Adam and Eve could not sin untill after they at the fruit. Right on! I know that this will not convince those that believe otherwise but here goes.

Eve LIED about Gods Command. Last time I checked lying was a sin.

Gen. 3
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Commend that lie as a NON-SIN anyway you are led. Yeah, even CHEER those who can NOT see it for what it was.

THIS LIE came from the MIND of Eve before it hit her lips. Adam was WITH her and did NOT correct her statements, therefore also COMPLICIT.

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife

Not 'eating,' but LISTENING and NOT correcting because God gave Adam the command.

Maybe it was an honest sin, er, ah, mistake?

Seems to me if they had sound minds, that command could at least be recounted by one of them accurately?

These things happen when one reasons with the devil.

How 'smart' were these children anyway? They didn't even know they were naked.

Had God not given that command He could have certainly left them in their ignorance and simply put the fruit away where they couldn't touch it?

Would YOU as a LOVING FATHER leave a LOADED GUN lying around the house when there are CHILDREN PRESENT?

Without DIVINE INTENTions underpinning these matters, that would be INSANE.

s

 

[littlelight]

Gen 2:16-17
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."
NKJV

First- God never told Eve not to eat of the fruit that we know of. I supect that Adam did and I suspect that Adam added to God's word. Eve was not around when God told adam.

Gen 3:16
16 To the woman He said:
"I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you."
NKJV


Second-When God was assigning blame were is the because when he spoke to Eve. I'm sure if Eve had added to his word God would have made mention of it.

1 Tim 2:14-15
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
NKJV

Third- this is the closest that the bible ever comes to saying Eve sinned in the garden. And I submit to you that the whole world fell into transgression when Adam rebelled. In Romans it is very clear just who God assigns the first sin to.

concerning adam- you harken to the voice that you believe.

 

[smaller]

Gen 2:16-17
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."
NKJV

First- God never told Eve not to eat of the fruit that we know of.

Obviously she was 'informed' of the command, accuracy notwithstanding. And it is also true that the LAW was ONLY to ADAM. Did EVE then SIN if that LAW was not to her and only to Adam? She wasn't even formed yet.

I supect that Adam did and I suspect that Adam added to God's word. Eve was not around when God told adam.

So, Adam deceived or lied to Eve? Or was he being 'protective' by 'adding' to the command in NOT TOUCH it?

You might also consider that the deception was IN Eve and caused by the deceiver, not ADAM. Just because we do not hear
the serpent speaking until the encounter with Eve, this does not mean he was not at work INSERTING temptation AND perhaps even TWISTING the command in her HEAD.

In any case Adam KNEW that the command was WRONGLY stated and did NOT correct her, and was thereby IMPLICATED by consenting to her LIE.

Gen 3:16
16 To the woman He said:
"I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you."

Second-When God was assigning blame were is the because when he spoke to Eve. I'm sure if Eve had added to his word God would have made mention of it.

I certainly see God assigning BLAME to the serpent.

To Eve there is additional penalty beside the death that came with the sin by conveyance of LAW, if we say it applied to her. And to Adam for listening to her LIE, NOT correcting,and eating anyway.

We certainly know EVE was 'deceived.' That 'deception' clearly transpired BEFORE the eating in the bungling of the command.

1 Tim 2:14-15
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
NKJV

Third- this is the closest that the bible ever comes to saying Eve sinned in the garden.

The action WAS a sin whether delineated as sin or not and to them BOTH. The methodology in her case was via deception which prior to eating, MADE A LIE upon her lips.

And I submit to you that the whole world fell into transgression when Adam rebelled. In Romans it is very clear just who God assigns the first sin to.

The serpent got the FIRST BLAME right there by God in Gen. 3.

14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this

Paul in Romans does an excellent job in showing the operations of SIN in relation to THE LAW and yes, does say by Adam sin entered the world. This does NOT eliminate the involvment of the serpent with the sin.

Paul also said that LAW is for the LAWLESS. Were Adam NOT already Lawless, there would be no use of GODS LAW application upon him.

concerning adam- you harken to the voice that you believe.

Harkening to A KNOWN LIE is also A SIN.

There is also no doubt that GOD put DEATH on the table where His children were present and GAVE THEM ACCESS to same by THAT LAW.

The COMMAND itself inserted THE THOUGHT OF SIN in them both. That's how THE LAW works.

At a minimum THE LAW makes or FORCES one to THINK about SINNING,

which is also A SIN.

I seriously wonder how many times they both thought....DON'T EAT THAT FRUIT, DON'T EAT THAT FRUIT...or how many PICTURES of eating came into their MINDS? If you say they NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT sinning AFTER that LAW came, that would probably be FALSE.

Eve did have LUST TO EAT THAT FORBIDDEN FRUIT also prior to eating:

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

These 'operations' of SIN are called the LUST of the FLESH, the LUST of the EYES and the PRIDE OF LIFE, exhibited RIGHT THERE in EVE prior to eating.

1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Some say ALL GOOD before eating...but THAT is openly and provably NOT true.

Deception was there PRIOR to eating. Law (to the lawless) containing DEATH PENALTY was there prior to eating as were the 'things of the world' that EVE SAW with LUST already WITHIN her.

s

 

[savedbygrace57]

little:

First- God never told Eve not to eat of the fruit that we know of. I supect that Adam did and I suspect that Adam added to God's word. Eve was not around when God told adam.

She was in Adam her Head at the Time God gave Him the Law, so it was given to her at the same time, and all men in Adam at that time since He was the Federal Head of them.

Likewise, Christ the Last Adam, received and obeyed the Law of God for all that were in Him, He was their Head.

 

[savedbygrace57]

smaller:

And it is also true that the LAW was ONLY to ADAM

Yes, as the Federal Head of All men in Him ! So All Men who would be out of Adam, received the Law in Him at the beginning. To include Eve !

 

[littlelight]

Obviously she was 'informed' of the command, accuracy notwithstanding. And it is also true that the LAW was ONLY to ADAM. Did EVE then SIN if that LAW was not to her and only to Adam? She wasn't even formed yet.



So, Adam deceived or lied to Eve? Or was he being 'protective' by 'adding' to the command in NOT TOUCH it?

You might also consider that the deception was IN Eve and caused by the deceiver, not ADAM. Just because we do not hear
the serpent speaking until the encounter with Eve, this does not mean he was not at work INSERTING temptation AND perhaps even TWISTING the command in her HEAD.

In any case Adam KNEW that the command was WRONGLY stated and did NOT correct her, and was thereby IMPLICATED by consenting to her LIE.



I certainly see God assigning BLAME to the serpent.

To Eve there is additional penalty beside the death that came with the sin by conveyance of LAW, if we say it applied to her. And to Adam for listening to her LIE, NOT correcting,and eating anyway.

We certainly know EVE was 'deceived.' That 'deception' clearly transpired BEFORE the eating in the bungling of the command.



The action WAS a sin whether delineated as sin or not and to them BOTH. The methodology in her case was via deception which prior to eating, MADE A LIE upon her lips.


The serpent got the FIRST BLAME right there by God in Gen. 3.

14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this

Paul in Romans does an excellent job in showing the operations of SIN in relation to THE LAW and yes, does say by Adam sin entered the world. This does NOT eliminate the involvment of the serpent with the sin.

Paul also said that LAW is for the LAWLESS. Were Adam NOT already Lawless, there would be no use of GODS LAW application upon him.



Harkening to A KNOWN LIE is also A SIN.

There is also no doubt that GOD put DEATH on the table where His children were present and GAVE THEM ACCESS to same by THAT LAW.

The COMMAND itself inserted THE THOUGHT OF SIN in them both. That's how THE LAW works.

At a minimum THE LAW makes or FORCES one to THINK about SINNING,

which is also A SIN.

I seriously wonder how many times they both thought....DON'T EAT THAT FRUIT, DON'T EAT THAT FRUIT...or how many PICTURES of eating came into their MINDS? If you say they NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT sinning AFTER that LAW came, that would probably be FALSE.

Eve did have LUST TO EAT THAT FORBIDDEN FRUIT also prior to eating:

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

These 'operations' of SIN are called the LUST of the FLESH, the LUST of the EYES and the PRIDE OF LIFE, exhibited RIGHT THERE in EVE prior to eating.

1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Some say ALL GOOD before eating...but THAT is openly and provably NOT true.

Deception was there PRIOR to eating. Law (to the lawless) containing DEATH PENALTY was there prior to eating as were the 'things of the world' that EVE SAW with LUST already WITHIN her.

s

smaller;

To convince me that Adam or/and Eve committed a moral sin against God by eating of the fruit then you have to prove to me that God holds people, who do not know good from evil, morally accountable for their actions. And you have to do this by the scriptures. To have knowledge of good and evil is to know that it's "good" to obey God and "evil" to disobey God. Because that is basicly what it means to know good from evil.

Deut 1:39-40
39 'Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I will give it, and they shall possess it. NKJV

That's exactly what God is saying in the above. Most christians that I know agree that children are not emotionally mature enough to grasp that its good to obey God and that its evil to disobey God. And the above passage is used as proof of that belief. This as far as I know is the only passage in the Bible that shows just what it means to have knowledge of good and evil. And since Moses wrote both it has to mean the same in both passages. Some of the children above must have lied or disobeyed their parents. Some probably were in agreement with their parents decission not to believe God but still were not held accountable by God.

Rom 4:15
15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
NKJV
Rom 5:13-14
13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

And in addition to what is said in my 1st paragraph, the above scriptures say the only laws Adam and Eve would be held accountable for are those they were given. So anything about lies, distorting Gods word or any of the other moral laws in the bible do not apply to them. There was only one commandment given to Adam and Eve. That was to be fruitful and multiply. The other given only to Adam, that we know of, was do not eat of the tree . But in this debate for now I will concede that both laws apply to both of them. In other words Adam and Eve are not accountable for any other laws except "fruitful" and "don't eat".

Because you will probably argue that Adam and Eve were not children. Then you have to say that God cannot create adults who are children emotionally in that they do not know good from evil(which seems to be calling God a liar). If you argue that then you will be putting limits on Gods power and only God places limits on his power.

So it boils down to you finding verses that state or imply that emotionally immature people (don't know good from evil) will be held accountabe to God and He will punish them by eternal destruction if they die. In addition to Dt 1:39-40 above here is another verse that implies just the opposite.

2 Sam 12:21-23
21 Then his servants said to him, "What is this that you have done? You fasted and wept for the child while he was alive, but when the child died, you arose and ate food."
22 And he said, "While the child was alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, 'Who can tell whether the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live?' 23 But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me."
NKJV

The Dt 1 verse is clear, the children have no knowledge of good and evil. They are free of moral guilt in not obeying God's command.

The second verse implies that David will go to where the child is. Unless you want to say that David was not saved so both of them are in the other place.
Please don't use those verses that say children suffer for the mistakes of their fathers. Suffering for and being held accountable for are not the same.

I agree with you God did blame the serpant. I will say that I was wrong in saying that God only blamed Adam.

 

[smaller]

smaller;

To convince me that Adam or/and Eve committed a moral sin against God by eating of the fruit then you have to prove to me that God holds people, who do not know good from evil, morally accountable for their actions.

No man will make the presence of SIN, which is OF THE DEVIL, 'morally accountable.' It is NOT POSSIBLE to make the presence of SIN 'obedient.' That working IN ALL MEN does what it does in thought, word and deed and is proven LAWLESS every single time.

Those who claim 'moral obedience' need only to LOOK AT their own thoughts to find DISOBEDIENCE therein. This is the 'reality' of SIN indwelling working in ALL the carriers of same, meaning ALL of us.

Adam couldn't have POSSIBLY 'chose himself' into PERFECTION. Only GOD conveys PERFECTION. There is only ONE SOURCE of 'eternal life.' No man chooses to 'claim that' by MORAL CHOICES.

And you have to do this by the scriptures. To have knowledge of good and evil is to know that it's "good" to obey God and "evil" to disobey God. Because that is basicly what it means to know good from evil.

I have already made 'many' observations of these matters as matters of 'facts' that are in 'fact' openly demonstrated by the scriptures.

Adam was subject to both LAW (for the LAWLESS) and DEATH by the penalty of LAW disobedience. It was and is not possible for the choice of ANY MAN to receive ETERNAL LIFE. It is by Grace, the UNmerited favor of God that such a conveyance comes.

GRACE is A ONE WAY STREET that flows from THE RIVER OF LIFE. Blessed are they who are led to TAKE THE PLUNGE therein.

They shall be CLEANSED therein.

Deut 1:39-40
39 'Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I will give it, and they shall possess it. NKJV

That's exactly what God is saying in the above. Most christians that I know agree that children are not emotionally mature enough to grasp that its good to obey God and that its evil to disobey God.

Will say again. NO presence of indwelling sin in MAN will ever OBEY or be LAWFUL. That is simply not possible.

One must DIVIDE themselves from that working to understand the DIFFERENCE between ourselves and THAT WORKING. Most believers stumble at this exact point, and then fall into FALSE 'self' justifications of their SIN present. There is in short NO EXCUSES for SIN nor will there EVER be.

ALL of us who come to God in Christ, come GUILTY by the proof of LAW, we come without our SINNING MOUTH shut entirely because OF SIN, we come UTTERLY GUILTY because of SIN...and we bow low, as WEAK and humbled by these facts for the receipt of UNmerited Favor of Grace.

This is the path that GOD MAKES us understand. There is no personal strutting before The Author and Conveyor of ETERNAL LIFE, no matter the 'claimants' claims.

And the above passage is used as proof of that belief. This as far as I know is the only passage in the Bible that shows just what it means to have knowledge of good and evil. And since Moses wrote both it has to mean the same in both passages. Some of the children above must have lied or disobeyed their parents. Some probably were in agreement with their parents decission not to believe God but still were not held accountable by God.

ALL of us are 'held' accountable for SIN and that accounting PROVES GUILT.

A man who claims no sin is a LIAR. A man who claims his SIN is OBEDIENT or LAWFUL is even MORE the liar. I say such are controlled by their SIN and COVERING up the obvious. Sin can do NOTHING but LIE, and DISOBEY and eventually KILL, which is the lack of fruit thereof and the reality that comes to ALL flesh because of same presence.

Knowing good from evil does not eradicate EVIL nor does 'good moral choice.'

We do good IN THE MIDST of EVIL. This is our 'life' in this present environment in the WICKED world and WICKED age.

Rom 4:15
15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
NKJV
Rom 5:13-14
13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

And in addition to what is said in my 1st paragraph, the above scriptures say the only laws Adam and Eve would be held accountable for are those they were given.

God found FAULT with the people, which is the REASON of the LAW.

Were there NO FAULT in Adam, there would be NO LAW laid upon him.

ALL LAW proves and convicts ALL SIN.

Later additions to LAW only served to PROVE THE POINT and to arouse LAWLESSNESS to even greater degrees. Grace and Truth in Jesus Christ did NO differently.

The Words of Jesus did also THIS. The FIRST COMMAND from God did NOT one whit differently.

GOD CHANGES NOT:

Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh

The weakness of the flesh of Adam was no different than the weakness of the flesh today, that we ALL have.

This WEAKNESS is what comes from the NATURAL BODY that God sowed Adam into, that Adam would be RAISED out of that 'corruptible natural body' into a FINAL ADAM...in an INCORRUPTIBLE Eternal Body.

The first demonstration and demonstrator of this FACT OF GODS INTENTIONS was Jesus Christ our Lord. The FIRST FRUIT of this RAISING. The lot of Adam, Gods son, was NOT to be the FIRST.

God 'saved that' for HIMSELF in HIS SON, As His Son. He 'suffered' the penalty of DEATH for Himself and HIMSELF tasted of our WEAKNESSES therein.

So anything about lies, distorting Gods word or any of the other moral laws in the bible do not apply to them.

You can say anything you think you see. I put out scriptural fact that I see in these matters. You are welcome to engage therein.

The fact is that Adam was like ALL of us. He was planted in WEAKNESS, in CORRUPTION, in DISHONOUR, in a NATURAL BODY that God had ZERO intention of LEAVING him.

Gods Intentions with Adam and Eve was NOT TO LEAVE THEM IN THE DUST! They were PLANTED by OUR MASTER for HIS SOLE INTENTIONS with them which was to RAISE them into AN INCORRUPTIBLE FAMILY that will LIVE with our Father for all of eternity.

This IS the very promise of the Gospel. God had no intentions of living with DUST PEOPLE, but ETERNAL CHILDREN in PERFECT ETERNAL BODIES.

So, you tell me how much BLAME you want to LAY upon either of them and I will say to any man, you simply DO NOT SEE The Divine Intentions in these matters that GOD has delivered us in His Words. There are FAR greater things to do in this present life than WALLOW IN BLAME and ACCUSATIONS upon Adam and Eve and to COUNT SINS against them and to say IF ONLY ADAM had made 'good moral choices' then Adam could have 'EARNED' himself eternal life. And 'now I have MY CHANCE.'

Bah humbug on those views.

There was only one commandment given to Adam and Eve. That was to be fruitful and multiply. The other given only to Adam, that we know of, was do not eat of the tree . But in this debate for now I will concede that both laws apply to both of them. In other words Adam and Eve are not accountable for any other laws except "fruitful" and "don't eat".

I have cited the scriptures before and you can IGNORE them ALL you please.

God in Christ TOLD ME very clearly that where THE WORD IS SOWN, then SATAN enters the heart IMMEDIATELY.

I have no use in making JESUS a LIAR over this fact.

The INSTANT God BLESSED Adam and Eve, the motions of these matters with the SERPENT were SET and the serpent ENTERED their DUST.

NOW look at that LAW. What do you see NOW? I see THE LAWLESS one. You see ONLY ADAM. I see the obvious but MUST apply THE FACTS as Jesus Gave us.

Because you will probably argue that Adam and Eve were not children.

I again cite the scripture: ADAM, the son of GOD. (Luke 3:38)

Do you see that son? Do you maybe also see that ALL OF ISRAEL are taught to be GODS CHILDREN?

Mankind are GODS OFFSPRING (Acts 17:28-29) planted into weakness, corruption, dishonour and in natural bodies. Many 'orthodox' hold to this matter. Some have lost their sights of these facts.

Then you have to say that God cannot create adults who are children emotionally in that they do not know good from evil(which seems to be calling God a liar). If you argue that then you will be putting limits on Gods power and only God places limits on his power.

You can assume your way past whatever I have put up to view from the text. IF you want to go back and LINE BY LINE engage those scriptures, RATHER than dealing with assumptions from your mind, even assumptions about what you think I'm seeing or saying that will remain pointless, as your last paragraph shows. You are forcing me to take your assumptions or if not 'I'M LYING.' That is just a petty and ridiculous way to dialog. IF you see 'scriptural fact' I am willing to ENGAGE therein.

Word settles all matters. Our opinions and assertions mean NOTHING.

and I'm running out of room in this post anyway...so no offense. Pick up from this post if you want.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[littlelight]

I see that we have no common ground.

May Jesus smile on you today.

 

[smaller]

I see that we have no common ground.

May Jesus smile on you today.

You couldn't have even bothered to read the post that fast and understood it to then provide reasoned response.

I expect that from most when I don't play their games.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Bazz1040]

I can't add anything to the main theme of this discussion. I just want to comment to those that say that Adam and Eve could not sin untill after they at the fruit. Right on! I know that this will not convince those that believe otherwise but here goes.

Deut 1:39-40
39 'Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I will give it, and they shall possess it.
NKJV

So God does not hold people accountable untill they become emotionaly mature. But I still think everyone has referred to Adam's sin (mistake -not a sin against God) as eating the fruit. His original mistake was not believing God. His rebelion that got him expelled happened after he became like God .

Gen 3:10
10 So he said, "I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself."
NKJV

When Adam first found out he probably said "I AM naked" after that he rebelled because God made him naked and that was the way he was supposed to be. Naturally after the fall man could not remain naked. So Adam's mistake was not believing God and his first sin against God was not accepting God's will.

So you see our awareness of our existance apart from God's creation is the sin all of us are born with. Naturally since we are aware of our existance it means that we become very aware of our wants, which are in opposition to God's desire for us. That's why the cure for our sin is to "LOVE" love God above all and love our brothers as God loved us. If we do that we kill our own wants.

It's not eating the fruit that made them sin its disobeying that that did. Eating the fruit only caused them to die.

Genesis 2:17 (ESV)
17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

 

[littlelight]

It's not eating the fruit that made them sin its disobeying that that did. Eating the fruit only caused them to die.

Genesis 2:17 (ESV)
17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

bazz1040
I contend that disobeying was not the problem. With no knowledge that it was good to obey and evil to disobey God then by the scriptures He did not hold them accountable for the disobiedance. Jesus makes it clear that its a heart problem when man sins. Adam did not believe God. He heeded his wife. You heed the one you believe. But again with no knowledge of whats good or whats evil then they didn't commit a trespass against God.

Sin can be a trespass against God or it can be a simple mistake.
trespass against God= sin1
make a mistake= sin2

Adam and Eve had no knowledge concerning a sin1. Knowing that its good to obey God and evil to disobey God is the most basic defination of "knowledge of good and evil".

Adam comitted a sin2. Like any good Father, God held them accountable for what they did. And the sin2 they commited was not believing God. I believe that its important to realize that The Holy Spirit uses both definations when He inspires those that write Gods word. When you read Hebrews and other writing in the new testament you get a clearer picture of what is written. As can be learned from the garden, a sin2 can be a deadly serious mistake.

To realize that you are a free agent capable of doing what you want to do is to know that you can rebel against God. Adam said I was naked which is past tense for I AM naked . With the I AM he became like God. When He didn't like the condition of being naked he chose to disobey God and cover himself. It was not a sin to be naked. If it was then God promoted sin because he talked to Adam and never told him to cover himself. Once the human race (thru Adam) had wants and needs of their own then it became necessary that man should be clothed.

I'm sorry but I have already used the verses to show why other sins committed were not held against them and why they did not commit a sin1 by eating the fruit. I saw no need to do it again. If I believe a scripture says one thing and you say different then unless I have more and different scriptures, I've done all I can do to prove my point of view. I can't prove anything apart from scripture.

 

[savedbygrace57]

little:

With no knowledge that it was good to obey and evil to disobey God

Thats a unlearned statement. For God commanded adam not to eat of the particular tree lest he die.

Gen 2:

15And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.


16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Now for a man to know [by command] to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin james 4:

17Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

 

[Bazz1040]

bazz1040
I contend that disobeying was not the problem. With no knowledge that it was good to obey and evil to disobey God then by the scriptures He did not hold them accountable for the disobiedance. Jesus makes it clear that its a heart problem when man sins. Adam did not believe God. He heeded his wife. You heed the one you believe. But again with no knowledge of whats good or whats evil then they didn't commit a trespass against God.

Sin can be a trespass against God or it can be a simple mistake.
trespass against God= sin1
make a mistake= sin2

Adam and Eve had no knowledge concerning a sin1. Knowing that its good to obey God and evil to disobey God is the most basic defination of "knowledge of good and evil".

Adam comitted a sin2. Like any good Father, God held them accountable for what they did. And the sin2 they commited was not believing God. I believe that its important to realize that The Holy Spirit uses both definations when He inspires those that write Gods word. When you read Hebrews and other writing in the new testament you get a clearer picture of what is written. As can be learned from the garden, a sin2 can be a deadly serious mistake.

To realize that you are a free agent capable of doing what you want to do is to know that you can rebel against God. Adam said I was naked which is past tense for I AM naked . With the I AM he became like God. When He didn't like the condition of being naked he chose to disobey God and cover himself. It was not a sin to be naked. If it was then God promoted sin because he talked to Adam and never told him to cover himself. Once the human race (thru Adam) had wants and needs of their own then it became necessary that man should be clothed.

I'm sorry but I have already used the verses to show why other sins committed were not held against them and why they did not commit a sin1 by eating the fruit. I saw no need to do it again. If I believe a scripture says one thing and you say different then unless I have more and different scriptures, I've done all I can do to prove my point of view. I can't prove anything apart from scripture.

What you are saying makes no sense Biblically. Since when disobeying God is not a sin? If God did not hold them accountable then why did you pronounced a curse on them? You know what disbelieving God is? It is saying that God cannot be trusted.....it is saying He is a liar, and I would rather believe someone else. And besides, Adam listened to his wife but he knew that what Satan in the form of a serpent told his wife was a lie. The Bible said that Eve was deceived but Adam was not.....he knew better, and the Bible says to him that knows to do good and does it not is a sin.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Present every Man Perfect in Christ !



col 1:28

Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Before God created the world, the Earth, it was Eternal Purpose in Christ eph 3:

8Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

It was His Eternal Purpose to Present every man Perfect through Christ, not Adam !

Adam was purposed to sin against God in order that he himself and his seed would be presented perfect in Christ.

 

[littlelight]

What you are saying makes no sense Biblically. Since when disobeying God is not a sin? .

When you have no knowledge of good and evil.

I tried a multi quote just to see if I could learn how. As you see it didn't work. So Even though it's useless I will continue my reply.

YOU- "If God did not hold them accountable then why did you pronounced a curse on them?"

my reply - When did I do that?

YOU-" You know what disbelieving God is? It is saying that God cannot be trusted.....it is saying He is a liar, and I would rather believe someone else."

my reply- Yes it is definately a sin. And Adam is guilty of it but it was not a moral sin.

YOU- "Adam was not.....he knew better, and the Bible says to him that knows to do good and does it not is a sin."

my reply- I find this a paradox.

Please do not think that I somehow came to believe your point of view because I do not reply anymore. I know that this reply is useless. I only did it to try to learn how to multi quote. I find that this takes too much of my time since I can't use the editing properly. So I think it best if I remain silent.

May Jesus smile on you today

 

[Bazz1040]

When you have no knowledge of good and evil.

So if they did not sin by disobeying God how is it the Bible says that sin came to us through one man? How is it that the Bible says Adam transgressed?

Romans 5:12 (ASV)
12 Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned:--

This verse also says that Adam sinned.

Romans 5:14 (ASV)
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the likeness of Adam's transgression, who is a figure of him that was to come.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Gather together all things in Christ, not adam !

eph 1:


9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

The Eternal Purpose of creation was to in the fulness of time gather together all things [beings] both men and angels in Christ.

adam was not created for that purpose, for he could never had been the head of angels which were in heaven.