What is it to be 'born again'?

[JLB]

As I said in the beginning, at this point in time we are "raised" figuratively through faith, but what we will literally be raised (resurrected) when Messiah returns. No one can say that they have literally been raised from the dead before they even die a literal death.

In both verses the word συνηγειρεν (Strong's # G4891) is used meaning: From G4862 and G1453; to rouse (from death) in company with, that is, (figuratively) to revivify (spiritually) in resemblance to: - raise up together, rise with.

We are raised through faith now, but when Yeshua returns our faith will become reality as we are literally resurrected from the grave. The language Paul uses is based on the certainty that those things will happen to all who are in Messiah.

I agree with most of what is said here.

However we are literally raised and seated with Him now, as we are in Him, and in Covenant with Him and are ONE SPIRIT with Him now.


JLB

 

[JLB]

JLB
I am posting on a phone, one little finger graze and a mistake is made. It keeps the posts shorter though, and me on a full size keyboard is just too much at times.

1. "It is my belief that Jesus is the Only Begotten of the Father, before He became flesh.

I believe that He, the Son of God appeared to Abraham and many in the Old Testament, not God the Father."

Time (as we know it) does no justice to the way God thinks). God leaps from eternity to time, and into future eternity with ease. I have to wonder ; where is God as he makes this statement?

IMHO. IMHO.
God the Son did exist to be able to visit Abraham. I think he existed as a spiritual being. (He could appear as having a body etc. IMHO he did not have to be begotten to do this. This is the whole issue in part of our conversation. The Son and the Father and Ruach could gather at pre creation without being begotten, The begotten part of the Son's existence was for the later time (time as we know it) when he was born as a man under the law to fulfill the sacrifice needed to purchase our redemption.

After Jesus rose from the dead:
He could just appear
Move through solids
Float into heaven
Etc.

It is not the begotten man doing creation and being glorified, but the Son who visited Abraham.

A lot of people do not want to discuss Romans 7:25
Paul says his mind serves the law of God ( the spiritual new birth part of him )
But
His begotten flesh serves the law of sin ( I inserted begotten as this is what we are discussing right now )

The new birth does not dust off the flesh and make it perfect. The new birth puts a new spiritual man inside my mind and heart (the promise given first to Jewish persons, and then later to those sorry Gentiles). I am a sorry Gentile grafted into the promises (wretched man).

We are not just flesh (if we are born again).
We are now a eternal Spirit if we are born again.





We can talk more later

eddif

Now worries about the phone, I understand.

God the Son did exist to be able to visit Abraham. I think he existed as a spiritual being.

Yes, the Lord is God. YHWH. The creator of Heaven and earth.

The Eternal Son.

Our Savior. Our Messiah. Our Lord and our God.

He is not God the Father!

He shall be called everlasting Father.


JLB

 

[JLB]

The New Testament interprets the LORD Jesus Christ also as YHWH. They share many names.

Please start a forum thread on that topic and I will gladly join you there.

Or, I would hope to incorporate this topic into this thread if it is agreeable to all and the staff.


JLB

 

[JLB]

As time allows I would like / love to continue the conversation. Not only for just us, but for those who may never post (who are seeking answers).

This is going to be ongoing I hope.

"1st. believe that He, the Son of God appeared to Abraham and many in the Old Testament, not God the Father."

I bumped post too soon. I will finish later.

eddif

Absolutely Brother.

Agreed!!!

:amen


JLB

 

[JLB]

The context of Acts 13:33 does not allow for your interpretation of "Day". It is specifically referring to his resurrection, not his entire life on earth.

Concerning being born again, we are born the first time when we come out of our earthly mother's womb. We are born again spiritually at our baptism and we are born again literally at our resurrection from the dead at Messiah's return.

Ok.

Lets discuss this.

I will wait for you to present the scriptures that you see as validation for this statement... We are born again spiritually at our baptism.


JLB

 

[eddif]

The context of Acts 13:33 does not allow for your interpretation of "Day". It is specifically referring to his resurrection, not his entire life on earth.

Concerning being born again, we are born the first time when we come out of our earthly mother's womb. We are born again spiritually at our baptism and we are born again literally at our resurrection from the dead at Messiah's return.

I am really going to be stressed on this Acts 13:33 issue. I become a heretic if I even hint that Strong's words may be open to discussion.

Just as a start. If Jesus is raised from the grave again, how many times is he raised from the dead? I am just looking at it literally right now ( there are several approaches to all this).

eddif

 

[JLB]

I am really going to be stressed on this Acts 13:33 issue. I become a heretic if I even hint that Strong's words may be open to discussion.

Just as a start. If Jesus is raised from the grave again, how many times is he raised from the dead? I am just looking at it literally right now ( there are several approaches to all this).

eddif

Please share.

 

[eddif]

Please share.

I am waiting on a comment from jocor. He may choose not to comment.

eddif

 

[Gregg]

Or, I would hope to incorporate this topic into this thread if it is agreeable to all and the staff.


JLB

That would not be agreeable with me. Let's stick with what it is to be born again.

 

[Gregg]

Eddif , JBL , jocor
Please make you posts relative to Christians being born again.

 

[JLB]

Eddif , JBL , jocor
Please make you posts relative to Christians being born again.

Ok.

Water Baptism has nothing to do with being born again.

 

[Obadiah]

The New Testament interprets the LORD Jesus Christ also as YHWH. They share many names.

Please start a forum thread on that topic and I will gladly join you there.

Or, I would hope to incorporate this topic into this thread if it is agreeable to all and the staff.


JLB

I'm tending to agree with Gregg that this is probably an important enough subject and will probably generate enough conversation to warrant a new thread all on it's own. Because of it's nature, I can envision this straying far from the topic of what it means to be born again if it's discussed in detail here.

 

[JLB]

I'm tending to agree with Gregg that this is probably an important enough subject and will probably generate enough conversation to warrant a new thread all on it's own. Because of it's nature, I can envision this straying far from the topic of what it means to be born again if it's discussed in detail here.

Ok Agreed.

Greg started this thread, so I will follow his lead.

Thanks JLB

 

[Gregg]

Ok.

Water Baptism has nothing to do with being born again.

We found something to agree upon. What changes with the believer when he is born again? What exactly is taking place?

 

[JLB]

We found something to agree upon. What changes with the believer when he is born again? What exactly is taking place?

Your spirit is born of a God.

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 1 John 5:1


JLB

 

[jocor]

What does it mean to you to be 'born again spiritually at our baptism'?

It means when we rise up out of our watery grave at baptism, we are spiritually resurrected unto a new life and are new creatures (spiritually speaking). It is a spiritual birth/resurrection as opposed to a literal one.

 

[jocor]

The New Testament interprets the LORD Jesus Christ also as YHWH. They share many names.

Please start a forum thread on that topic and I will gladly join you there.

As I understand it, that would be against forum rules since it is contrary to Christian doctrine.

 

[jocor]

I am really going to be stressed on this Acts 13:33 issue. I become a heretic if I even hint that Strong's words may be open to discussion.

Just as a start. If Jesus is raised from the grave again, how many times is he raised from the dead? I am just looking at it literally right now ( there are several approaches to all this).

eddif

I'm not sure I understand you, but ...Yeshua had one literal resurrection from the grave after being in it for three days. If he is raised from the grave again it will be his second resurrection. However, that would be impossible since he received eternal life after his first resurrection and therefore, cannot die again.

 

[jocor]

Ok.

Lets discuss this.

I will wait for you to present the scriptures that you see as validation for this statement... We are born again spiritually at our baptism.


JLB

Rom 6:3 Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Yeshua the Messiah were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as the Messiah was raised up from the dead by the majesty of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Submergence of the old sinful man under the water of baptism is a figurative death. If we literally died under the water, the baptizer would be in big trouble. Rising up out of the water would be a figurative resurrection since the literal resurrection takes place at Messiah's coming. Upon our emergence out of the water of baptism we become a new creature spiritually speaking. We rise up sinless, but we are still the same physical/literal person. It is the inner man that changes. He receives a spiritually new heart, but he still has his old physical/literal heart. He then receives a new spirit, the Holy Spirit which empowers him to live a holy life.

 

[Gregg]

As I understand it, that would be against forum rules since it is contrary to Christian doctrine.

In that Jesus is God with us, and the Word was God, discussing His Name is completely within rules. Obadiah (post #53) encourages it.