What is it to be 'born again'?

[Gregg]

Your spirit is born of a God.

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 1 John 5:1


JLB

I agree that our spirit is born of God [however, I cautiously add 'so far']; and would add the soul is included in our being born again, with the promise of an imperishable body at Christ's Second Coming (1Thes 5:23).

But staying with being born again, what changes take place in our spirit, or to our spirit, or on behalf of our spirit?

 

[Gregg]

It means when we rise up out of our watery grave at baptism, we are spiritually resurrected unto a new life and are new creatures (spiritually speaking). It is a spiritual birth/resurrection as opposed to a literal one.

Could you expound upon what is new about us as a new creature?

 

[Gregg]

Rom 6:3 Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Yeshua the Messiah were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as the Messiah was raised up from the dead by the majesty of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Submergence of the old sinful man under the water of baptism is a figurative death. If we literally died under the water, the baptizer would be in big trouble. Rising up out of the water would be a figurative resurrection since the literal resurrection takes place at Messiah's coming. Upon our emergence out of the water of baptism we become a new creature spiritually speaking. We rise up sinless, but we are still the same physical/literal person. It is the inner man that changes. He receives a spiritually new heart, but he still has his old physical/literal heart. He then receives a new spirit, the Holy Spirit which empowers him to live a holy life.

What happened to his old spirit, such as was it dead before and now made alive by Christ, or made alive when His Holy Spirit indwelled the believer?

 

[JLB]

I agree that our spirit is born of God [however, I cautiously add 'so far']; and would add the soul is included in our being born again, with the promise of an imperishable body at Christ's Second Coming (1Thes 5:23).

But staying with being born again, what changes take place in our spirit, or to our spirit, or on behalf of our spirit?

The death that spread to all men through Adam,

I agree that our spirit is born of God [however, I cautiously add 'so far']; and would add the soul is included in our being born again, with the promise of an imperishable body at Christ's Second Coming (1Thes 5:23).

But staying with being born again, what changes take place in our spirit, or to our spirit, or on behalf of our spirit?

I'm sure we will know more when we are Resurrected in that day, for now we see in part and know in part...

Until then we are to be transformed by the renewing of our mind.

We are to be conformed to the Image of His Son...


JLB

 

[Obadiah]

As I understand it, that would be against forum rules since it is contrary to Christian doctrine.

In that Jesus is God with us, and the Word was God, discussing His Name is completely within rules. Obadiah (post #53) encourages it.

I know of nothing in the ToS or doctrinal statement that would make this subject against the rules. Most times it's not the subject that is a violation, it's what people say about the subject, or the way people talk to each other that are violations.

 

[Edward]

I agree that our spirit is born of God [however, I cautiously add 'so far']; and would add the soul is included in our being born again, with the promise of an imperishable body at Christ's Second Coming (1Thes 5:23).

But staying with being born again, what changes take place in our spirit, or to our spirit, or on behalf of our spirit?

That's a good question that I have pondered lately even before seeing the thread. I like your train of thought and believe you are on the right track. What I have come up with is (I don't know if it's right or not, but...) that, there is an expansion of our spirit. As we learn to live for the Spirit (spirit?) it expands even more (growth). Imagine our "spirit" is inside of our soul, you with me? Ok. The Lords Spirit bears witness with our spirit and is in us, and we in He. The Spirit is life, love and light, and so much more. Anyway, As we learn to live for the spirit and there is growth, a renewing or regeneration and the spirit grows and expands, and comes out of us, and the light can be seen by others.

Man is body soul spirit. But, paying close attention to the order in which it is written sort of illustrates what i am saying. before the fall man was spirit soul body, with the body on the inside, and the spirit on the outside. After we fell we got rearranged and are now body soul spirit. We were (are) spiritual beings and the spirit should be dominant. Our flesh body is now dominant with our spirit quashed inside somewhere.

We live for the spirit, our spirit grows, expands, and becomes dominant again and comes to the outside of us. Let our light shine to the world, we are a new creature in Christ with the old man (flesh, quashed) and we are spirit, renewed in Christ. New mind, new way of thinking, new way of living. Living for the spirit (Spirit!). As a new man we are spiritual beings and in Christ and He in us. Walking in Christ, literally. The temple of the Holy Spirit.

Sort've kinda maybe perhaps. It kind of makes sense. I think. Am I making sense?

A lot of people will think this is nuts, or even deny that we have a spirit at all!

There's more to this world than meets the eye. A spiritual realm. More real than our natural reality. We just can't see it. Mostly. Some can, some do occasionally.

Look at the wording in john 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God./

"see". And all those other scriptures, The kingdom of God is at hand...right here, all around us (in another dimension, a spiritual dimension). Does it mean "see" as with the eyes? Or to perceive (or both?). Another one...

Luke 17:
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it./

Now that is interesting. Cometh not with observation. The kingdom of God is within you...the perception is of a spiritual nature. Ahh but when we're born again we receive revelation. First there is faith, then followeth understanding through revelation by the Spirit. God reveals Himself to us spiritually, within our heart. The things unseen. Faith continues, grows. the spirit grows. Sometimes, it is within the Lords will to allow us to see (with our eyes) the spirits and spiritual realm. Remeber the story of Elijah and Elisha i think. They woke up and were compassed about (surrounded) by the enemy. One of them said (paraphrased) "they that be with us are more than they", then the other was worried and Elijah said "Lord open his eyes that he may see", then he saw the valley was surrounded by Angels and Chariots of fire...so he did see. At times, people see Angels and so forth. So it happens. The kingdom of God is all around us, and within us. We don't get any access to it without being born again, and the growth of our spirit is essential.

I better quit now, it's pretty long, but this is essentially where I'm at on it.

 

[Edward]

Adam & Eve probably had full access to the spiritual realm before the fall. they were spiritual beings created in the image of God, walked with God daily in the cool of the evening. We lost more than we realize in the fall. And also "why" we need "born again"!
To regain this identity and relationship.

We're not human beings on a spiritual journey, we're spiritual beings on a human journey!

 

[jocor]

Could you expound upon what is new about us as a new creature?

The old physical creature is not new. We still keep the same old body, except that body which was spiritually dead is made spiritually alive through the forgiveness of our sins (Col 2:13). We start to develop a new way of thinking (1 Cor 2:16), of relating to Yahweh, of living (keeping His commandments and doing His will), of relating to our neighbors, etc. We receive a new spirit (the Holy Spirit) that indwells us, teaches us, causes us to keep Yahweh's commandments unless we fight against its leading, etc.

 

[jocor]

What happened to his old spirit, such as was it dead before and now made alive by Christ, or made alive when His Holy Spirit indwelled the believer?

See Above.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Here's the 'born again' experience that Nicodemus, being a teacher of Israel and familiar with the scriptures, should have known about, but did not:

6 "Then the Spirit of the LORD will come upon you mightily, and you shall prophesy with them and be changed into another man." (1 Samuel 10:6 NASB)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We lost more than we realize in the fall. And also "why" we need "born again"!
To regain this identity and relationship.

Which I think is why Paul calls his ministry the 'ministry of reconciliation'.

We're not human beings on a spiritual journey, we're spiritual beings on a human journey!

Can you show me to the nearest exit, please?

Wait........I'm not kidding.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That's a good question that I have pondered lately even before seeing the thread. I like your train of thought and believe you are on the right track. What I have come up with is (I don't know if it's right or not, but...) that, there is an expansion of our spirit. As we learn to live for the Spirit (spirit?) it expands even more (growth). Imagine our "spirit" is inside of our soul, you with me? Ok. The Lords Spirit bears witness with our spirit and is in us, and we in He. The Spirit is life, love and light, and so much more. Anyway, As we learn to live for the spirit and there is growth, a renewing or regeneration and the spirit grows and expands, and comes out of us, and the light can be seen by others.

Man is body soul spirit. But, paying close attention to the order in which it is written sort of illustrates what i am saying. before the fall man was spirit soul body, with the body on the inside, and the spirit on the outside. After we fell we got rearranged and are now body soul spirit. We were (are) spiritual beings and the spirit should be dominant. Our flesh body is now dominant with our spirit quashed inside somewhere.

We live for the spirit, our spirit grows, expands, and becomes dominant again and comes to the outside of us. Let our light shine to the world, we are a new creature in Christ with the old man (flesh, quashed) and we are spirit, renewed in Christ. New mind, new way of thinking, new way of living. Living for the spirit (Spirit!). As a new man we are spiritual beings and in Christ and He in us. Walking in Christ, literally. The temple of the Holy Spirit.

Sort've kinda maybe perhaps. It kind of makes sense. I think. Am I making sense?

A lot of people will think this is nuts, or even deny that we have a spirit at all!

There's more to this world than meets the eye. A spiritual realm. More real than our natural reality. We just can't see it. Mostly. Some can, some do occasionally.

Look at the wording in john 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God./

"see". And all those other scriptures, The kingdom of God is at hand...right here, all around us (in another dimension, a spiritual dimension). Does it mean "see" as with the eyes? Or to perceive (or both?). Another one...

Luke 17:
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it./

Now that is interesting. Cometh not with observation. The kingdom of God is within you...the perception is of a spiritual nature. Ahh but when we're born again we receive revelation. First there is faith, then followeth understanding through revelation by the Spirit. God reveals Himself to us spiritually, within our heart. The things unseen. Faith continues, grows. the spirit grows. Sometimes, it is within the Lords will to allow us to see (with our eyes) the spirits and spiritual realm. Remeber the story of Elijah and Elisha i think. They woke up and were compassed about (surrounded) by the enemy. One of them said (paraphrased) "they that be with us are more than they", then the other was worried and Elijah said "Lord open his eyes that he may see", then he saw the valley was surrounded by Angels and Chariots of fire...so he did see. At times, people see Angels and so forth. So it happens. The kingdom of God is all around us, and within us. We don't get any access to it without being born again, and the growth of our spirit is essential.

I better quit now, it's pretty long, but this is essentially where I'm at on it.

When we are born again our spirit is joined to the Spirit of God to become as one:

"17 But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him. " (1 Corinthians 6:17 NASB)

God, through the Spirit, becomes discernment and spiritual guide for the believer:

"... your Teacher will no longer hide Himself, but your eyes will behold your Teacher. 21 Your ears will hear a word behind you, "This is the way, walk in it," whenever you turn to the right or to the left." (Isaiah 30:20-21 NASB)

Through the discernment of the Spirit we 'see' the kingdom. The spiritual birth--God breathing spiritual life into your spirit and making it alive--is the only way to do that.

 

[Edward]

When we are born again our spirit is joined to the Spirit of God to become as one:

"17 But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him. " (1 Corinthians 6:17 NASB)

God, through the Spirit, becomes discernment and spiritual guide for the believer:

"... your Teacher will no longer hide Himself, but your eyes will behold your Teacher. 21 Your ears will hear a word behind you, "This is the way, walk in it," whenever you turn to the right or to the left." (Isaiah 30:20-21 NASB)

Through the discernment of the Spirit we 'see' the kingdom. The spiritual birth--God breathing spiritual life into your spirit and making it alive--is the only way to do that.

That makes sense, and is where the expansion takes place that i spoke of. One spirit still, but...better, stronger, faster (The bionic spirit, yay!) through the spirit of the Lord. Move over because God's Spirit moving in! I must decrease so He can increase. Then guides our path and gives us discernment, among other things. Words of knowledge and stuff. This is how spirits *think*, as before the fall. I talked before about thinking from the heart before the fall (as an illustrative point mostly) but it's really thinking in the Spirit, a knowing, because the Holy Spirit knows. Every being is in the Spirit and is like this (except the enemy), Angels...all of them. Everything is given of God. Also why we're not supposed to lean upon our own understanding. We're to look to the Spirit, live for the Spirit. Reconcile and regain our identity. Now if I could just shake off this stupid brain, lol.

No wonder David picked 5 stones out of the brook when going out to meet Goliath. He was ready for all four of his brothers too, and he would've killed them too if they hadn't backed off. That was essentially the Holy Spirit out there. He could've sent the Archangel Michael (a lesser being than the Holy Spirit) and won...or even a lesser lesser being (David, lol!) to give them some shock and awe tactics. Show His power and be glorified. Now that, is super cool. What a mighty and awesome God we have! What an honor it must've been to have been David and the vessel used to let God make a point through!

What we need to realize, is that God is no respecter of persons, and that we can be used as David was. All of us. When we are born again, we too, walk in the Spirit and have the Holy Spirit dwelling within us, and can do these things also. This is what Jesus was talking about in

John 14: 10-14
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it./

But we have to be born again. "Born Again"...people use that term casually as a synonym for saved, but it's so much more than that. This is real. We are Born AGAIN...(spiritually) and while this is an unseen thing, it can be perceived, and the depths of the reality of the transformation goes way beyond anything that we casually talk about.

Sometimes we are tempted. Should I keep the 5 bucks that the cashier gave me back accidentally as too much change? They'll never know. Ha! Would you if Jesus was walking/standing right beside you? Oh, no not then. Well He is. Always. And not just beside us, but within us. These things, being unseen are taken lightly a lot of times by people. But it is a reality. The flip side is, if we sell out to God completely...We got the job of chauffeur, driving the Holy Spirit around so that He can do His work. The benefits of such a job...will be enormous. I say will be because the Holy Spirit will lead you to some pretty rough places. You might be killed, tortured, put down, persecuted and defamed. Not a pretty sight. But at the end of the week, payday, we get to rest. Because we overcame and let Him do His work through us. Probably a bonus too. Something...eye has not seen, nor mind can comprehend the greatness thereof. Just believe that it's possible. Walk it out in faith.

I just thought of something. I bet there's a difference between, the Holy Spirit is with us...and, the Holy Spirit is within us. Us modern age believers have never been without the Holy Spirit. As (previously) unbelievers, He was with us, drawing us towards God and being our conscience so to speak. As believers, We get filled with the Holy Spirit, we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit...He is within us. I have to chew on that for a bit. This reconciliation/renewing goes deeper than I previously thought.

 

[Edward]

The old physical creature is not new. We still keep the same old body, except that body which was spiritually dead is made spiritually alive through the forgiveness of our sins (Col 2:13). We start to develop a new way of thinking (1 Cor 2:16), of relating to Yahweh, of living (keeping His commandments and doing His will), of relating to our neighbors, etc. We receive a new spirit (the Holy Spirit) that indwells us, teaches us, causes us to keep Yahweh's commandments unless we fight against its leading, etc.

I have a friend who has an old Chevy pickup truck. 1960's something. Bodywork partially done, primered and sanded, looks like an old dilapidated pick up. But he went through it and installed a new motor and drive train. It's essentially new, mechanically, but looks like an old junky truck. A sleeper. New on the inside, junky on the outside. It drives as good as a brand new truck and has a lot of character. It doesn't look like anything a thief would want to steal. But it's probably worth 20 grand. (guessing).

Same thing as us. What's new about us is...everything (inside) (should be at least!). New spirit, new heart, new mind, new man. May not look like much but is a very different vehicle. A total overhaul and renewing within us.

 

[Gregg]

That's a good question that I have pondered lately even before seeing the thread. I like your train of thought and believe you are on the right track. What I have come up with is (I don't know if it's right or not, but...) that, there is an expansion of our spirit. As we learn to live for the Spirit (spirit?) it expands even more (growth). Imagine our "spirit" is inside of our soul, you with me? Ok. The Lords Spirit bears witness with our spirit and is in us, and we in He. The Spirit is life, love and light, and so much more. Anyway, As we learn to live for the spirit and there is growth, a renewing or regeneration and the spirit grows and expands, and comes out of us, and the light can be seen by others.

Man is body soul spirit. But, paying close attention to the order in which it is written sort of illustrates what i am saying. before the fall man was spirit soul body, with the body on the inside, and the spirit on the outside. After we fell we got rearranged and are now body soul spirit. We were (are) spiritual beings and the spirit should be dominant. Our flesh body is now dominant with our spirit quashed inside somewhere.

We live for the spirit, our spirit grows, expands, and becomes dominant again and comes to the outside of us. Let our light shine to the world, we are a new creature in Christ with the old man (flesh, quashed) and we are spirit, renewed in Christ. New mind, new way of thinking, new way of living. Living for the spirit (Spirit!). As a new man we are spiritual beings and in Christ and He in us. Walking in Christ, literally. The temple of the Holy Spirit.

Sort've kinda maybe perhaps. It kind of makes sense. I think. Am I making sense?

A lot of people will think this is nuts, or even deny that we have a spirit at all!

There's more to this world than meets the eye. A spiritual realm. More real than our natural reality. We just can't see it. Mostly. Some can, some do occasionally.

Look at the wording in john 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God./

"see". And all those other scriptures, The kingdom of God is at hand...right here, all around us (in another dimension, a spiritual dimension). Does it mean "see" as with the eyes? Or to perceive (or both?). Another one...

Luke 17:
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it./

Now that is interesting. Cometh not with observation. The kingdom of God is within you...the perception is of a spiritual nature. Ahh but when we're born again we receive revelation. First there is faith, then followeth understanding through revelation by the Spirit. God reveals Himself to us spiritually, within our heart. The things unseen. Faith continues, grows. the spirit grows. Sometimes, it is within the Lords will to allow us to see (with our eyes) the spirits and spiritual realm. Remeber the story of Elijah and Elisha i think. They woke up and were compassed about (surrounded) by the enemy. One of them said (paraphrased) "they that be with us are more than they", then the other was worried and Elijah said "Lord open his eyes that he may see", then he saw the valley was surrounded by Angels and Chariots of fire...so he did see. At times, people see Angels and so forth. So it happens. The kingdom of God is all around us, and within us. We don't get any access to it without being born again, and the growth of our spirit is essential.

I better quit now, it's pretty long, but this is essentially where I'm at on it.

I do believe that our being is comprised of a body, a soul, and a spirit. I am not so sure about what was inward and outward, or whether they were reversed when Adam fell.

When Adam sinned in the Garden, I believe several things occurred to him. His spirit died (spiritual death), through which he formerly recognized God and by which he had fellowship with God. His body incurred the sentence of physical death, and his days were numbered for his body to return to dust. His soul remained but as an incomplete being; 1) having a severed or dead spirit unable to recognize or have fellowship with God spiritually, and 2) inside a body that was perishing, though not yet severed from his being by physical death.

When someone is born again, I understand that: 1) his spirit is made alive again and indwelled by the Spirit of God, and 2) that his body of flesh is guaranteed to become imperishable at Christ's Second Coming; but upon being 'born again' his flesh is circumcised from his spirit; whereas before becoming a Christian his spirit was severed from his soul and body. Now, having been cut off from his own flesh, the Christian is placed into Christ's body (the Temple of God filled with the called out ones).

Along these lines I posted elsewhere regarding a Christian:

1) our spirit is saved,
2) our spirit is saved, and our soul is being saved,
3) our spirit is saved, our soul is being saved, and our body will be saved.

This follows God's design for our salvation - it begins, is sustained, and will be completed.

 

[JLB]

I do believe that our being is comprised of a body, a soul, and a spirit. I am not so sure about what was inward and outward, or whether they were reversed when Adam fell.

When Adam sinned in the Garden, I believe several things occurred to him. His spirit died (spiritual death), through which he formerly recognized God and by which he had fellowship with God. His body incurred the sentence of physical death, and his days were numbered for his body to return to dust. His soul remained but as an incomplete being; 1) having a severed or dead spirit unable to recognize or have fellowship with God spiritually, and 2) inside a body that was perishing, though not yet severed from his being by physical death.

When someone is born again, I understand that: 1) his spirit is made alive again and indwelled by the Spirit of God, and 2) that his body of flesh is guaranteed to become imperishable at Christ's Second Coming; but upon being 'born again' his flesh is circumcised from his spirit; whereas before becoming a Christian his spirit was severed from his soul and body. Now, having been cut off from his own flesh, the Christian is placed into Christ's body (the Temple of God filled with the called out ones).

Along these lines I posted elsewhere regarding a Christian:

1) our spirit is saved,
2) our spirit is saved, and our soul is being saved,
3) our spirit is saved, our soul is being saved, and our body will be saved.

This follows God's design for our salvation - it begins, is sustained, and will be completed.

Interesting.

Share some more about this... but upon being 'born again' his flesh is circumcised from his spirit; whereas before becoming a Christian his spirit was severed from his soul and body.

 

[Edward]

I do believe that our being is comprised of a body, a soul, and a spirit. I am not so sure about what was inward and outward, or whether they were reversed when Adam fell.

When Adam sinned in the Garden, I believe several things occurred to him. His spirit died (spiritual death), through which he formerly recognized God and by which he had fellowship with God. His body incurred the sentence of physical death, and his days were numbered for his body to return to dust. His soul remained but as an incomplete being; 1) having a severed or dead spirit unable to recognize or have fellowship with God spiritually, and 2) inside a body that was perishing, though not yet severed from his being by physical death.

When someone is born again, I understand that: 1) his spirit is made alive again and indwelled by the Spirit of God, and 2) that his body of flesh is guaranteed to become imperishable at Christ's Second Coming; but upon being 'born again' his flesh is circumcised from his spirit; whereas before becoming a Christian his spirit was severed from his soul and body. Now, having been cut off from his own flesh, the Christian is placed into Christ's body (the Temple of God filled with the called out ones).

Along these lines I posted elsewhere regarding a Christian:

1) our spirit is saved,
2) our spirit is saved, and our soul is being saved,
3) our spirit is saved, our soul is being saved, and our body will be saved.

This follows God's design for our salvation - it begins, is sustained, and will be completed.

yes sir, that's pretty much how I see it. I do think that since we are instructed to live for the spirit, that we should learn all we can about the spiritual realm and so forth. It is twilight zone, but it is real. We are spiritual beings and need to learn how to live as a spiritual being. Not only have we (up until we were saved) only known about and lived in the natural realm, we have been lied to our entire lives. This is where the, come to me as a little child instruction comes into play. We have to learn. Saved...hold daddy's hand and have faith in Him so protect you and teach you, then, kindergarten, begin to learn and mature and so forth. Then progress and go from there.

I notice in the OT times, that they seemed to be well aware of the spiritual realm, seeing Angels and stuff. When Gabriel came to Mary to tell her that she would be impregnated, she didn't freak out about the Angel. (we would!), she just talked to him. In many other places it was the same.

This is a great topic and very edifying.

 

[follower]

........ we have been lied to our entire lives. This is where the, come to me as a little child instruction comes into play. We have to learn. Saved...hold daddy's hand and have faith in Him so protect you and teach you, then, kindergarten, begin to learn and mature and so forth. Then progress and go from there.

I notice in the OT times, that they seemed to be well aware of the spiritual realm, seeing Angels and stuff. ......

hahaha 'stuff' (for later somewhere down the road, off topic entirely ) ... ... ...

yes, "we have been lied to our entire lives" and "We have to learn" ("hold daddy's hand and have faith in Him to protect you and teach you" is totally required (can't trust any man/church/flesh because of the curse).
"mature" --- it takes a long, long time. not very many around to teach truth or disciple believers in Yeshua(train them in Yhwh's Way).
"spiritual realm, seeing angels..." seeing 'angels of light' that don't pass the test when tested is much more common than seeing Yhwh's sent ones/messengers.

 

[Gregg]

Interesting.

Share some more about this... but upon being 'born again' his flesh is circumcised from his spirit; whereas before becoming a Christian his spirit was severed from his soul and body.

I preface with this, that these statements are not things that I teach as facts, but that it fits well with my understanding of the Scriptures.

I understand that Adam saw the Lord in His glory before the 'fall', that He saw God as Light; such as the Lord Jesus appeared at His Transfiguration and to Paul on his way to Damascus. After Adam sinned he could no longer discern the Lord's presence as Light, but being close enough to Adam that His footsteps were heard (Gen 3:8, Gen 3:10). Adam was not aware of his nakedness before he sinned (Gen 3:11-12), as he also may have been clothed with light [perhaps innate to his former state of being].

At least two things changed: Adam could no longer see or spiritually discern the Lord's presence, while he saw himself in a different manner. Adams spiritual eyes were blinded, while his natural eyes were opened. I think this illustrates the death of Adam's spirit, that part of his being with which the Lord most intimately communicated with and had fellowship with Adam. After the 'fall', Adam's physical nature [his body and physical mind - the brain] became the predominant influence upon the core of his being, upon his soul; and so he became aware of the nakedness of his body. Adam's spirit having already died, the Lord instituted the death of his flesh (Gen 3:19).

So why did the Lord exile Adam from the garden and access to the Tree of Life? Adam sought to know the Lord according to the flesh (Gen 3:5-6); but one may only know about the Lord according to the flesh. However, God intended that we know Him through our spirit, by His Spirit. The Lord did not allow Adam to eat of the Tree of Life, as he would have lived forever in his fleshly and fallen state (Gen 3:22).

God has restored the way to know Him spiritually through the Lord Jesus Christ; "predestining us to adoption through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will," (Eph 1:5). Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life; the Resurrection and the Life. Through Christ and by His indwelling Spirit we can again know the Father spiritually, "that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the full knowledge of Him," (Eph 1:17).

So I understand that being born again involves among other things the renewal [regeneration, quickening, resurrection] of our formerly dead spirit. Our souls, for us who are saved [born again spiritually], are undergoing a process of renewal, with the promise of a future final and everlasting renewal (1Cor 15:53 a). Yet we are left with a physical body which is perishing, a body for which we also have the promise of a future renewal (1Cor 15:53 b). "But when this corruptible shall put on incorruption, and this mortal shall put on immortality, then will take place the word that has been written, 'Death was swallowed up in victory' " (1Cor 15:54).

"And may the God of peace Himself fully sanctify you, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1The 5:23).

The Spirit of God [probably] resides in our spirit, as opposed to in our soul or body. Being born again we can know the Father through our spirit - having eaten of the Tree of Life and now living forever in Him (Gen 3:22), that is having partaken of Christ by God's grace through faith. ". . . in due time Christ died for ungodly ones" (Rom 5:6).

The flesh wars against the Spirit (Gal 5:17). Our soul, the seat of our being wherein resides our will and conscience [and is somehow joined to our spirit (Heb 4:12)], is undergoing a process of renewal for the remainder of our days. While our physical bodies of flesh have been circumcised from our soul, our flesh [senses and brain] still has influence upon our soul. However, we will not know God by our flesh; only about God, and knowing good and evil.

Our spirit is saved, our soul is being saved, and our body will be saved.