What is The Baptism that saves us now?

[Runmyramble]

Your verse 24 of Rom 8 is skewed.
It should read..."For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"
And yes, we get a new vessel on the day of Christ's return.

I agree.

Live like the kingdom is here now, as you are in it already. (If you are in Christ)

Happening in front of your eyes !

The vessel is nothing.
It is the mind that makes all the difference.
Have the mind of Christ and live a regenerated life now.

Yep !

Yep !

Nope !
If you leave one life behind, and start the new life in Christ, there is no going back.
As Jesus said..."And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62)

The scripture says we grow in grace...
So if we never fall after being in Him as it sounds you are suggesting then what reason would there be to grow?

 

[Runmyramble]

..

Your verse 24 of Rom 8 is skewed.
It should read..."For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"
And yes, we get a new vessel on the day of Christ's return.

Here's the net version:
For in hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope, because who hopes for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with endurance.

I'm not sure what you are arguing about with JLB if you know one gets a new vessel;body

I agree.

Live like the kingdom is here now, as you are in it already. (If you are in Christ)

Happening in front of your eyes !

Yes,incoming under His rule...The kingdom is said to be "where What God wants done is done."

The vessel is nothing.
It is the mind that makes all the difference.
Have the mind of Christ and live a regenerated life now.

The vessel is something it's the way we correspond with others in this life. When aligned with the good Spirit..it gives us a good conscience before God

Yep !

Yep !

Nope !
If you leave one life behind, and start the new life in Christ, there is no going back.
As Jesus said..."And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62)

Think about it for a moment does a man plow looking back, if He did He would get off track. Those who wanted to say farewell, and bury their dead would have been in danger of not moving forward. Just as Peter thought He was strong enough to not to deny Christ 3 times....But as you see He was being taught..and where was He being taught at? WAS HE IN THE KINGDOM? OR MOVING INTO IT?.....Sound like then one is learning now how to be fit for the kingdom.(but from where is He learning?)

Au contraire.
I need Him more than ever.
Are you just using Jesus to bail you out of sin every other day or once every year?

Neither my point, you said you were sinless or rather you don't sin, and that raised an eyebrow...sense I have not ever known a sinless person...but Jesus does say sin not.

.....
And as you walk in the Spirit the blood cleanses...so I need Him all the time...

My point was if one can say they don't sin no more....depending on what you know about them,and I know nothing about you, I am going to asked are you saying you don't need Jesus. And if you know you will not sin...then the scripture be careful you think you stand or you may fall. Another words no man is an Island we all need God....

That kind of Person doesn't have any idea about the Lord...the Lord he is abandoning daily or yearly.

Not sure what you mean here

"No man can serve two masters", as Jesus said in Matt 6:24.

This is a true statement you can't serve 2 masters at the same time...but did Peter have faith when He denied Christ?
He was not strong, He was being taught, and where was He being taught? Did He not follow Christ? So was He in the Kingdomas He was being taught, or was He being made fit for the kingdom. What scripture do you have?

"He will hate the one and love the other", Jesus added.
Sinners hate God !

True you either walking after the flesh or after the Spirit....one is not walking north and south at the same time.

If you sin, you have an advocate, but after the Advocate has made you a new creature there is no need of the advocacy of Christ for sins.

You just said earlier that you need Him more....but not for cleansing? Well as you walk in the Spirit the blood cleanses. [Isn't that what scripture says?]
If scripture says be careful you think you stand or you may fall [that means there is a chance you can fall]..and you say you don't need Him...then sounds like you working off your own power.

You have stopped sinning...if you have repented of sin and been washed of past sins by the blood of the Advocate, and been reborn of God's seed.

Maybe, and maybe for that moment...until you need Him again...But I think where the confusion may come from, and I can be wrong, been wrong many timesbut I am thinking in the aspect of Positional Justification Vs. Our sanctification. For I believe He imputes righteousness but righteousness is also imparted. So imputed is so that we live up to that standard.

It seems to me when we walk in our call(imputed righteousness) we will know what we have. That's why it is said to work out your salvation.

Why not?
It is just a vessel for this time.

Because you were saying it's already been made new by the Spirit. And if it was made new...then it would not die because as Christ is the first fruits shall we not be like Him (the type of body He has?)

Yep, the outer man ages and deteriorates as life goes on
But it is all we have with which to glorify God on earth now.

Yes but that does not mean it is already redeemed..as per scripture already mentioned

Sinners abide in death.
With the advocacy of the Lord we can start walking in the light.
There is no sin in the light.

Yes but there is a chance you can fall...if there is not a chance...then why the Scripture be careful you think you stand or you may fall...If there was no chance...I take it you will be taken up like Enoch and Elijah (and who knows I may not see you tomorrow) joking

But one thing I want to leave with is the question when is Jesus blood applied to our sins...

As we walk in the Spirit right? But if we have new sins, or sin is being revealed in our members or heart...then we still need an advocate....

 

[Hopeful]

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death.

Agreed.

Being born into the family ....having a relationship....is not the same as having fellowship

They are inseparable, in God's "family"
We are all one.

Like you can be married and have a relationship....but never talk or have fellowship with them because she/he is cheating still....

That isn't the kind of marriage Christians have.
God doesn't cheat on us and the true Christians don't cheat on Him.
It is unwise to compare the things of God with the things of unregenerate men.

The key is remaining in Christ is to remain/abide in His teaching.

Agreed.

 

[Hopeful]

The scripture says we grow in grace...
So if we never fall after being in Him as it sounds you are suggesting then what reason would there be to grow?

It is what I am "suggesting", and our reason is to better represent our Savior on earth.
We should pray we will grow in grace and knowledge everyday.
I know a whole lot more about God and His doctrine today than I did 10 years ago.

 

[Runmyramble]

Agreed.

They are inseparable, in God's "family"
We are all one.

Give a scripture reference.... That says fellowship and relationship are the Same.

For on the top of my head just looking at Israel...they had a relationship but not always fellowship. They were God's chosen. (RELATIONSHIP) ....BUT THEY WERE ALSO TOLD TO REPENT SO THEY COULD HAVE FELLOWSHIP..

That isn't the kind of marriage Christians have.
God doesn't cheat on us and the true Christians don't cheat on Him.

Did Peter Cheat when He chose His life and denied Jesus?

It is unwise to compare the things of God with the things of unregenerate men.

God did not tell me that....I could not relate marriage life to make an example.

Agreed.

 

[Runmyramble]

It is what I am "suggesting", and our reason is to better represent our Savior on earth.
We should pray we will grow in grace and knowledge everyday.
I know a whole lot more about God and His doctrine today than I did 10 years ago.

Sounds like you are saying you are done being saved...because you have made it, and there is no other Hell that God needs to get out of you.

But just maybe I know what your advocating: For my father use to say as long as we are in this body we will sin.

Yet Jesus says sin not...or sin no more...was He then advocating something we could not do?

The mind set of believing we will always sin....to me is an issue too...

But here's the last scripture I could see you possibly meaning:

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Ps
spouse just said that body there means (all together, accumulated sins)

I got to look that up now...

 

[Hopeful]

Here's the net version:
For in hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope, because who hopes for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with endurance.

That interpretation is the exact opposite of what is in the bible.
First we won't BE saved until the day of judgement after which you will be able to say "I am saved".
If you are already saved, what is it you hope for?

I'm not sure what you are arguing about with JLB if you know one gets a new vessel;body

I know it.
He doesn't agree.

Yes, incoming under His rule...The kingdom is said to be "where What God wants done is done."

If His will is being done by you, the kingdom is inside you.

The vessel is something it's the way we correspond with others in this life. When aligned with the good Spirit..it gives us a good conscience before God

In the context I wrote that the vessel was nothing.

Think about it for a moment does a man plow looking back, if He did He would get off track. Those who wanted to say farewell, and bury their dead would have been in danger of not moving forward. Just as Peter thought He was strong enough to not to deny Christ 3 times....But as you see He was being taught..and where was He being taught at? WAS HE IN THE KINGDOM? OR MOVING INTO IT?.....Sound like then one is learning now how to be fit for the kingdom.(but from where is He learning?)

He was standing still when he denied Christ.

Neither my point, you said you were sinless or rather you don't sin, and that raised an eyebrow...sense I have not ever known a sinless person...but Jesus does say sin not.

He doesn't command the impossible...thank God.

And as you walk in the Spirit the blood cleanses...so I need Him all the time...

Actually, the blood of Jesus cleanses you before you can walk in the light...which is God.
Confess, be washed at baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, and walk in the light from then on.

My point was if one can say they don't sin no more....depending on what you know about them,and I know nothing about you, I am going to asked are you saying you don't need Jesus. And if you know you will not sin...then the scripture be careful you think you stand or you may fall. Another words no man is an Island we all need God....

I need Jesus more every day, as the temptations don't stop and the devil is desperately trying to make me break my love for God.

Not sure what you mean here

Some people use the Lord like a bandage, and others use Him as a cure.

This is a true statement you can't serve 2 masters at the same time...but did Peter have faith when He denied Christ?
He was not strong, He was being taught, and where was He being taught? Did He not follow Christ? So was He in the Kingdomas He was being taught, or was He being made fit for the kingdom. What scripture do you have?

He did not have faith, and was not in the kingdom, when he lied about knowing Jesus.

True you either walking after the flesh or after the Spirit....one is not walking north and south at the same time.

Well said.

You just said earlier that you need Him more....but not for cleansing?

Yes, as the cleansing was completed.
Now, it is a matter of growing in grace and knowledge, and learning how to present this doctrine which is according to Godliness to different kinds of groups.
And how to be perceived everywhere I go.

Well as you walk in the Spirit the blood cleanses. [Isn't that what scripture says?]

Not exactly, as there was no punctuation in the original Greek.
The part that says..."and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." really should be its own sentence and be unhooked from..."But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another," (1 John 1:7)

If scripture says be careful you think you stand or you may fall [that means there is a chance you can fall]..and you say you don't need Him...then sounds like you working off your own power.

Like Paul wrote..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)
And I never said "I don't need Him."
Because, as you said, there is always the chance to fall.

Maybe, and maybe for that moment...until you need Him again...But I think where the confusion may come from, and I can be wrong, been wrong many timesbut I am thinking in the aspect of Positional Justification Vs. Our sanctification. For I believe He imputes righteousness but righteousness is also imparted. So imputed is so that we live up to that standard.

"Positional justification" is a false doctrine that only accommodates more sin.
One is either justified or he is not justified.
One is either sanctified or they are unsanctified.

It seems to me when we walk in our call(imputed righteousness) we will know what we have. That's why it is said to work out your salvation.

The walk is the work.

Because you were saying it's already been made new by the Spirit. And if it was made new...then it would not die because as Christ is the first fruits shall we not be like Him (the type of body He has?)

We can be "like Him" with what He has given us, and that does not include a glorified vessel yet.
Jesus was like...Jesus, before He had a glorified body.
Do like He did.

Yes but that does not mean it is already redeemed..as per scripture already mentioned

Look at these two scriptures...
Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Romans 8:23
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

We can have the redemption that is in Christ, if we are in Christ, while we wait for the redemption of our mortal vessel
I will add this..."In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;" (Eph 1:7)
In Him we have redemption through His blood that provided the forgiveness of our past sins.
The redemption of our vessel comes later.

Yes but there is a chance you can fall...if there is not a chance...then why the Scripture be careful you think you stand or you may fall...If there was no chance...I take it you will be taken up like Enoch and Elijah (and who knows I may not see you tomorrow) joking

There is always the chance to betray the Lord.
We make choices all day long that affect our very soul.

But one thing I want to leave with is the question when is Jesus blood applied to our sins...
As we walk in the Spirit right? But if we have new sins, or sin is being revealed in our members or heart...then we still need an advocate....

The blood of Christ as applied to us as we hang on the cross with Christ, at our water baptism into Him and into His death and burial.
It is written..."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:" (Rom 6:3-5)
Plus..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
That "suffering" was done on the cross with Christ, when our old man died.
It is written..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Rom 6:6)

 

[Hopeful]

Give a scripture reference.... That says fellowship and relationship are the Same.

I can't do it, as the word "relationship" isn't in the bible.
I will, however, add this..."If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:" (1 John 1:6)
Sinners, those who walk in darkness, cannot say they have fellowship with God.
Having no fellowship, entails no relationship...except as an enemy.

For on the top of my head just looking at Israel...they had a relationship but not always fellowship. They were God's chosen. (RELATIONSHIP) ....BUT THEY WERE ALSO TOLD TO REPENT SO THEY COULD HAVE FELLOWSHIP..

If one hates the other, the only relationship is as an enemy.

Did Peter Cheat when He chose His life and denied Jesus?

I don't know about "cheat", but he did sin.
He was not yet converted, and still walked after the flesh.

God did not tell me that....I could not relate marriage life to make an example.

OK, I see what you meant by "cheat".
As Peter was not "in Christ", the answer is no.
They were never "one".

 

[Runmyramble]

We should pray we will grow in grace and knowledge everyday.
I know a whole lot more about God and His doctrine today than I did 10 years ago.

I can't do it, as the word "relationship" isn't in the bible.
I will, however, add this..."If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:" (1 John 1:6)
Sinners, those who walk in darkness, cannot say they have fellowship with God.
Having no fellowship, entails no relationship...except as an enemy.

If one hates the other, the only relationship is as an enemy.

I don't know about "cheat", but he did sin.
He was not yet converted, and still walked after the flesh.

OK, I see what you meant by "cheat".
As Peter was not "in Christ", the answer is no.
They were never "one".

Well hopeful I may have to get to this later... but love the discussion

 

[Runmyramble]

...

That interpretation is the exact opposite of what is in the bible.

That is the net Bible version...so it is the Bible...

First we won't BE saved until the day of judgement after which you will be able to say "I am saved".
If you are already saved, what is it you hope for?

I have not went to the context yet...

I know it.
He doesn't agree.

Well could be miscommunication..

If His will is being done by you, the kingdom is inside you.

Not sure of within, for could be in the midst

In the context I wrote that the vessel was nothing.

He was standing still when he denied Christ.

He doesn't command the impossible...thank God.

Actually, the blood of Jesus cleanses you before you can walk in the light..

Not sure here either, the light exposes sin

.which is God.
Confess, be washed at baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, and walk in the light from then on.

Not sure what you mean by this...what baptism? Sounds Catholic

I need Jesus more every day, as the temptations don't stop and the devil is desperately trying to make me break my love for God.

Amen...

Some people use the Lord like a bandage, and others use Him as a cure.

Mmm

He did not have faith, and was not in the kingdom, when he lied about knowing Jesus.

I can't say I agree

Well said.

Yes, as the cleansing was completed.
Now, it is a matter of growing in grace and knowledge, and learning how to present this doctrine which is according to Godliness to different kinds of groups.
And how to be perceived everywhere I go.

Cool

Not exactly, as there was no punctuation in the original Greek.
The part that says..."and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." really should be its own sentence and be unhooked from..."But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another," (1 John 1:7)

It's still in the chapter

Like Paul wrote..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)
And I never said "I don't need Him."
Because, as you said, there is always the chance to fall.

"Positional justification" is a false doctrine that only accommodates more sin.

Can't say I agree, but I do try and test traditional belief systems...

I can relate to what you are saying...because I think you said earlier it's about the mind set....or what the mind takes in to be true.

One is either justified or he is not justified.
One is either sanctified or they are unsanctified.

Can't agree because at this time I do believe in positional ....plus it's about the whole body, soul, and Spirit be preserved until the day of the Lord

The walk is the work.

Agree

We can be "like Him" with what He has given us, and that does not include a glorified vessel yet.

Agree, I see your point now

Jesus was like...Jesus, before He had a glorified body.
Do like He did.

Good pt.

Look at these two scriptures...
Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Romans 8:23
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

We can have the redemption that is in Christ, if we are in Christ, while we wait for the redemption of our mortal vessel

I see your point, I'll have to read the passages..phone wont let me tap on them.

I will add this..."In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;" (Eph 1:7)
In Him we have redemption through His blood that provided the forgiveness of our past sins.
The redemption of our vessel comes later.

I see your pt.

There is always the chance to betray the Lord.
We make choices all day long that affect our very soul.

agree

The blood of Christ as applied to us as we hang on the cross with Christ, at our water baptism into Him and into His death and burial.

Don't understand...sounds a bit Catholic

It is written..."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:" (Rom 6:3-5)
Plus..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)

Amen

That "suffering" was done on the cross with Christ, when our old man died.

Brain not calculating this..(through the symbol?)

It is written..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Rom 6:6)

Amen

 

[jaybo]

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death.

Being born into the family ....having a relationship....is not the same as having fellowship

Like you can be married and have a relationship....but never talk or have fellowship with them because she/he is cheating still....

The key is remaining in Christ is to remain/abide in His teaching.

Are you okay? What does "you can be married and have a relationship....but never talk or have fellowship with them because she/he is cheating still" mean? Two people have a relationship but don't talk? Or "have fellowship"? "... because s/he is cheating still"??? What???

 

[Runmyramble]

I can't do it, as the word "relationship" isn't in the bible.

I see your point...however for the sake of being mischievous, the term "en" in Romans 2:17 is relationship.

Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God;

I will, however, add this..."If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:" (1 John 1:6)

Agreed

Sinners, those who walk in darkness, cannot say they have fellowship with God.
Having no fellowship, entails no relationship...except as an enemy.

One needs to have a relationship before they can gave fellowship...

So one can't have fellowship unless they have a relationship.

But from my understanding...one can have a relationship but not have fellowship.......

As I mentioned with my marriage example.......

If one hates the other, the only relationship is as an enemy.

Not sure I comprehend

I don't know about "cheat", but he did sin.
He was not yet converted, and still walked after the flesh.

OK, I see what you meant by "cheat".
As Peter was not "in Christ", the answer is no.
They were never "one".

Can't say I know....rather He was In Christ.. or was converted...

But what I will say is I understand you view point.....because I had a discussion with my dad.....And many times the response was as long as we are in this body we will sin....But I do long to see a scripture that states that is true...

I know we all have sin and fallen short of the Glory of God...but does that mean we stay there because it states that....

And there is a scripture that says if you say you have no sin you deceive yourself.
But I have to read it...for is it speaking of all the time...

But back to my Father who recently past in January ...I do also agree with you on our mind set...if you input "we will always sin"..then what will the output be....?

Ya know....I heard that a lot and it bothered me...

So were the Corinthians which are call carnal Christias were they in the body of Christ?

So that is what I will take away from this thread "sin not"

 

[JLB]

Again, happily !
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:6)

Yes exactly. This scripture I posted plainly shows us that which is born of the Spirit is indeed spirit, not flesh.

You however have no scripture to validate your false doctrine of our flesh being born again.

No where in the bible does any scripture teach us that our physical body is born again.

Our physical body will die and be resurrected from the dead in which we will receive new immortal bodies, at His Coming.


NOT AT WATER BAPTISM.


Please turn away from promoting this false doctrine of sinless perfection.



JLB

 

[JLB]

All of the new me, a new creature, was born of the Spirit.

You keep saying this but have zero scripture that teaches us our physical body is born again.

ZERO!

 

[Hopeful]

Well hopeful I may have to get to this later... but love the discussion

OK, I love it too.

 

[Hopeful]

That is the net Bible version...so it is the Bible...

It is in a version of the KJV bible, and it "misses the point."
KJV..."For we are saved by hope..."
Net..."For in hope we were saved...". It gives the false impression that we are already saved, but if we are already saved, what is it we hope for?

I have not went to the context yet...

OK...it might just be the syntax or some other English professor's word that I can't understand that causes me to not like the way it is worded.

Well could be miscommunication..

I can only hope.

Not sure of within, for could be in the midst

Surely they are synonyms .

Not sure here either, the light exposes sin

The light does expose sins, but in 1 John 1:5 it says..."This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."
In this context, and knowing that there is no darkness (sin) in God, the sin (darkness) must be gone before you can enter God.
The cleansing by the blood of Christ accomplishes that.

Not sure what you mean by this...what baptism? Sounds Catholic

Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins (Acts 2:38), was around long before the catholics corrupted it.

Mmm

Think about it, some use the the word of God to keep "treating" their ongoing sins, while others use the word of God for the "cessation" of their sins.

I can't say I agree

Peter did not receive the gift of the holy Ghost until the day of Pentecost, forty-three days after his lies.
He wouldn't be "converted" till that happened.

It's still in the chapter

Can't two different topics be mentioned in one chapter, or even one verse?
In 1 John 1, all the verses are just one sentence, but the Greek translations they were copied from didn't have the punctuation we have today so verse 7 should have been two verses.
"7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another.
7a And the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
7a is simply an aside, or further observation.
A separate thought.

Can't say I agree, but I do try and test traditional belief systems...
I can relate to what you are saying...because I think you said earlier it's about the mind set....or what the mind takes in to be true.

The way I understand anything "positional" is like this...We get a bit of the justification at our initial coming to Christ, and more and more as we grow in Him.
But those who proffer that doctrine have never met anyone who was 100% justified or 100% sanctified.
This allows them to keep acting as unjustified, unsanctified people.
(Example): In another thread here a poster said "I'm just not sanctified as much as I should be" (paraphrased), in order to cover his ill thoughts on the queens death

Can't agree because at this time I do believe in positional ....plus it's about the whole body, soul, and Spirit be preserved until the day of the Lord

It is just an excuse to keep acting unjustified and unsanctified.

Don't understand...sounds a bit Catholic

Even the blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes.

Brain not calculating this..(through the symbol?)

What do you mean "through the symbol"?

 

[Hopeful]

I see your point...however for the sake of being mischievous, the term "en" in Romans 2:17 is relationship.
Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God;

OK.

Agreed
One needs to have a relationship before they can gave fellowship...
So one can't have fellowship unless they have a relationship.
But from my understanding...one can have a relationship but not have fellowship......

I will agree that one must meet someone before they can get to know them.
But this is another one of those false doctrines made up by the unrepentant to justify sin.
(Example): "I am a son of God, (relationship), but I still commit sin, (lack of fellowship), so I will go to heaven no matter how much sin I commit."
Those born of God don't serve the devil...ever.

.As I mentioned with my marriage example.......

Hitler had a relationship with the Jews of Nazi Germany.
What good was that?
Relationships can be bad without any fellowship, but they can't be good without fellowship.
"Relationship" counts for nothing.

Not sure I comprehend

"Relationship" is just a word.
It can be good or bad.
Its context defines which it is.

Can't say I know....rather He (Peter) was In Christ.. or was converted...

Neither. Those walking in light, God, don't lie.

But what I will say is I understand you view point.....because I had a discussion with my dad.....And many times the response was as long as we are in this body we will sin....But I do long to see a scripture that states that is true...

The change comes when you realize it isn't YOUR body anymore.
It is the vessel of the Holy Ghost, and it is His body. (Gal 2:20)

I know we all have sin and fallen short of the Glory of God...but does that mean we stay there because it states that...

Word it correctly...
"All HAVE sinned...", (Rom 3:23, 5:12), past tense, and in the past for those who have repented of sin.
It doesn't say we can't quit committing sin.

And there is a scripture that says if you say you have no sin you deceive yourself.
But I have to read it...for is it speaking of all the time...

That verse of 1 John 1 is like verses 6 nd 10...addressing those who walk in darkness-sin.
It does not address those who walk in the light-God, wherein is no sin.

But back to my Father who recently past in January ...I do also agree with you on our mind set. If you input "we will always sin", then what will the output be....?

Sorry about your dad.
And espousing a doctrine of "we will always sin" is devilish.

Ya know....I heard that a lot and it bothered me...

Good.
Now is the time to accept that you don't have to sin anymore.
To the praise of God !

So were the Corinthians which are call carnal Christias were they in the body of Christ?

Not if they were carnal.
Only Spiritual men are "in Christ".
Paul didn't call them carnal, just lamented having to address them as if they were still carnal.

So that is what I will take away from this thread "sin not"

Welcome to the tiniest kingdom on earth.
What part of "Usa" are you in?

 

[Hopeful]

Yes exactly. This scripture I posted plainly shows us that which is born of the Spirit is indeed spirit, not flesh.

Right, so quit calling me and the other converts flesh !

You however have no scripture to validate your false doctrine of our flesh being born again.

None, except: "That which is born of the Spirit is spirit" !
You know, the second birth?

No where in the bible does any scripture teach us that our physical body is born again.

Then 2 Cor 5:17 is a lie.
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
And Jesus' Mark 2:22 parable about new wine being put in new bottles was tripe.
"And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles."
And James didn't know what he was writing about in James 1:18.
"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures."

Our physical body will die and be resurrected from the dead in which we will receive new immortal bodies, at His Coming.


NOT AT WATER BAPTISM.


Please turn away from promoting this false doctrine of sinless perfection.



JLB

 

[Hopeful]

You keep saying this but have zero scripture that teaches us our physical body is born again.

ZERO!

Three, so far.
2 Cor 5:17. James 1:18, and Mark 2:22.

 

[JLB]

Right, so quit calling me and the other converts flesh !

None, except: "That which is born of the Spirit is spirit" !
You know, the second birth?

Then 2 Cor 5:17 is a lie.
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
And Jesus' Mark 2:22 parable about new wine being put in new bottles was tripe.
"And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles."
And James didn't know what he was writing about in James 1:18.
"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures."

Your physical body is flesh.

Your flesh, physical body will not inherit the kingdom of God, which is why you will receive a new sinless body at the resurrection.

Your claim that the resurrection is past is heresy.

Your false claim that Christians receive a resurrection body at water baptism is against the teaching of Christ


Repent of your false doctrine.



JLB