What is the clearest Bible passage that demonstrates loss of salvation to you and why?

[gr8grace3]

JLB and Jim are right, chessman. I read these scriptures and get the same thing out of it that they do. I'm sorry Brother but you need to pray about this passage and ask for enlightenment on it.

Wow that really does blow osas out of the water, JLB. Fear and trembling...

I have just read it also. And if we don't go any deeper than just "reading" it. Satan(he twists scripture) will convince us that The Lord Jesus Christ will throw His children into the LoF forever.

But if one STUDIES it, we will see it is divine discipline/encouraging for the CHILDREN He loves.

This is why this forum is DEAD. It can't get past the simple, unreal,great,awesome,unbelievable,free mercy and Grace of our Great Lord and Savior........................JESUS CHRIST.

 

[gr8grace3]

Here, I'll start:

Galatians 5:2-4 (LEB) Look! I, Paul, tell you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing! And again I testify to every man who becomes circumcised, that he is under obligation to keep the whole law. You are estranged from Christ, you who are attempting to be justified by the law; you have fallen from grace.
​

If we are saved by Grace (and we are, see Eph 2:8) and estranged from Christ then obviously "fallen from grace'" means fallen from salvation, right???

You won't get it brother. There is no clear scripture that teaches it. Just scriptures that satan twists to scare the children of the Lord Jesus Christ.

And frankly, it is getting disgusting to watch believers and wolves in sheeps clothing trying to toss His children into the LoF, and degrade the character and nature of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Eph 2:8 and 2:4 are arguably the most forceful verse FOR eternal security. And it is based upon HIS faithfulness and not ours.

And nobody will address these verses...................but they tell us they did.

 

[JLB]

The verse doesn't even say that fire appeared to them, much less filled them or baptized them. It says there appeared to them divided tongues as of fire.

Acts 2:3 (LEB) And divided tongues like fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them.

Acts 2:3 (KJV) And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

Acts 2:4 (NKJV) And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit...

You might as well say they were filled with something like the Holy Spirit using your methods of rearranging the words of the Bible.

The fire is associated with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, as John says...He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.



3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:3-4

3 and there appeared to them divided tongues, as it were of fire; it sat also upon each one of them, YLT

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. KJV

The other component of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit and fire, rested upon each of them, which as it were was fire.

This scriptures shows us the fulfillment of the words of John the baptist, that says... I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Matthew 3:11

Where is the fulfillment of John word's if not here on the Day of Pentecost?

If you can show me from the scriptures, on the day of Pentecost where there was another baptizing with fire, then we can discuss it.

Since this has nothing to do with John 15:6, and since there are no scriptures in John 15 that refer to those removed from Him being cleansed with fire or otherwise, it seems you have exhausted all the excuses you have to defend your unbiblical doctrine of OSAS.

6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Those who don't abide in Him are thrown into the fire and burned.

Burned - Strong's G2545 - kaiō

1. to set on fire, light, burning
2. to burn, consume with fire

No way for you to redefine burned into cleansed.

This is a reference to hell fire, for those who were in Him, then later removed from Him and thrown into the fire of hell.


JLB

 

[chessman]

Burned - Strong's G2545 - kaiō

1. to set on fire, light, burning
2. to burn, consume with fire

No way for you to redefine burned into cleansed.

Indeed, let's not re-define anything. That applies to re-defining "fire" into "Hell's fire" too, you know.

But cleansing is built into the very definition of the word for "fire". You are the one "redefining" the passage by inserting "Hell" into the Text of John 15:6 for no good reason other than to make it "the clearest 'Bible' passage that demonstrate loss of salvation to you and why".

Fire = πῦρ, 'to purify'
http://biblehub.com/greek/4442.htm

Get it??? pyr, pyro, pur, purify. All three English words: Purify, Pyro, Fire all derive from the same original Greek word (through Latin).

Etymology of pure.
Pure comes from the Latin purus, which derives from the Greek pyr/pur (fire, πύρ; gen: puros, πυρός), as initially fire was used for cleansing.

https://ewonago.wordpress.com/tag/etymology-of-purify/

It's used all throughout the Bible for cleansing/purification:

Numbers 31:23a (LEB) everything that will go through the fire—you will pass through the fire, and it will be clean, and only in waters of impurity will it be purified. ​

Ezekiel 22:20(LEB) like the gathering of silver and bronze and iron and lead and tin to the middle of a furnace to blow fire on it for melting. Thus I will gather in my anger and in my rage, and I will deposit you [The house of Israel], and I will melt you.

Zechariah 13:9(LEB)
9 And I will bring the remaining third into the fire,
and I will refine them like one refines silver,
and I will test them like one tests gold.
They will call my name,
and I will answer them.
I will say, ‘They are my people,’
and they will say, ‘Yahweh is my God.’”

Malachi 3:2 (LEB) And who can endure the day of his coming? And who is the one who can stand when he appears? For he is like a refiner’s fire, like launderers’ alkali.

1 Corinthians 3:13-15 (LEB) the work of each one will become evident. For the day will reveal it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the work of each one, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work that he has built upon it remains, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, but so as through fire.​

And we know why it's necessary for true Christians to go through this to:

1 Peter 1:7 (LEB) so that the genuineness of your faith, more valuable than gold that is passing away, but is tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ,​

 

[JLB]

Indeed, let's not re-define anything. That applies to re-defining "fire" into "Hell's fire" too, you know.

But cleansing is built into the very definition of the word for "fire". You are the one "redefining" the passage by inserting "Hell" into the Text of John 15:6 for no good reason other than to make it "the clearest 'Bible' passage that demonstrate loss of salvation to you and why".

Fire = πῦρ, 'to purify'
http://biblehub.com/greek/4442.htm

Get it??? pyr, pyro, pur, purify. All three English words: Purify, Pyro, Fire all derive from the same original Greek word (through Latin).

Etymology of pure.
Pure comes from the Latin purus, which derives from the Greek pyr/pur (fire, πύρ; gen: puros, πυρός), as initially fire was used for cleansing.

https://ewonago.wordpress.com/tag/etymology-of-purify/

It's used all throughout the Bible for cleansing/purification:

Numbers 31:23a (LEB) everything that will go through the fire—you will pass through the fire, and it will be clean, and only in waters of impurity will it be purified. ​

Ezekiel 22:20(LEB) like the gathering of silver and bronze and iron and lead and tin to the middle of a furnace to blow fire on it for melting. Thus I will gather in my anger and in my rage, and I will deposit you [The house of Israel], and I will melt you.

Zechariah 13:9(LEB)
9 And I will bring the remaining third into the fire,
and I will refine them like one refines silver,
and I will test them like one tests gold.
They will call my name,
and I will answer them.
I will say, ‘They are my people,’
and they will say, ‘Yahweh is my God.’”

Malachi 3:2 (LEB) And who can endure the day of his coming? And who is the one who can stand when he appears? For he is like a refiner’s fire, like launderers’ alkali.

1 Corinthians 3:13-15 (LEB) the work of each one will become evident. For the day will reveal it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the work of each one, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work that he has built upon it remains, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, but so as through fire.​

And we know why it's necessary for true Christians to go through this to:

1 Peter 1:7 (LEB) so that the genuineness of your faith, more valuable than gold that is passing away, but is tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ,​

Unfortunately for you fantasy, Jesus uses the word burned in association with being throw into the fire.

That way the context is clear.

Jesus surely had the opportunity to say these are gathered up and thrown into the fire and cleansed if that was what He was wanting to teach us.

Those who are in Him, then later are disconnected from Him, as a branch is disconnected from the Vine from which it receives its nourishing life, are gathered up and thrown into the fire and burned.

Burned -

1. to set on fire, light, burning
2. to burn, consume with fire

The fire is a reference to hell, as I have proving many references to the fire being hell.

Until you can provide some scriptures where people are thrown into the fire and cleansed, then you are grasping at the wind with only your opinion.


JLB

 

[chessman]

3 and there appeared to them divided tongues, as it were of fire; it sat also upon each one of them, YLT

The "it" that you highlight in the verse was literally tongues grammatically and physically (the ability to speak other languages). Tongues that were divided, in fact. Not grammatically or literally fire.

Anyone can understand this fact by;
1) reading the verse
2) reading the rest of the passage

Acts 2:4 (LEB) And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages as the Spirit gave them ability to speak out.​

If this (on the day of pentecost) had been a Holy Spirit baptism of fire they would have been filled with the Holy Spirit and began to burn as the Spirit gave them fire.

 

[JLB]

The "it" that you highlight in the verse was literally tongues grammatically and physically (the ability to speak other languages). Tongues that were divided, in fact. Not grammatically or literally fire.

Anyone can understand this fact by;
1) reading the verse
2) reading the rest of the passage

Acts 2:4 (LEB) And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages as the Spirit gave them ability to speak out.​

If this (on the day of pentecost) had been a Holy Spirit baptism of fire they would have been filled with the Holy Spirit and began to burn as the Spirit gave them fire.

The tongues of fire sat upon each of them who were baptized with the Holy Spirit and fire.

3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:3-4


JLB

 

[JLB]

Eph 2:8 and 2:4 are arguably the most forceful verse FOR eternal security. And it is based upon HIS faithfulness and not ours.

And nobody will address these verses...................but they tell us they did.

The reason you don't post the scripture but just the scripture tag is because the truth is found in the actual scripture itself, not your opinion tagged with a scripture reference.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, Ephesians 2:4-8

Those who continue to have faith and continue to believe to the end are saved.

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23


Consider your scripture addressed.



JLB