What's What With Baptism?

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Re: What's What With Baptism? Bathe, Breathe, Burn

But that was not all that he said. He spoke of the Promise of the Father. That same promise that had been given to him only 10 days prior at the time of the Ascension of Jesus: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about." Jesus left no doubt about what he meant and continued immediately to say, "For John baptized with (or in) water, but in a few days you will be baptized with (or in) the Holy Spirit.”

That is exactly what Peter declared and I see no reason to change what he said now! "The promise (Baptism of the Holy Spirit) is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

We agree, but only to a point. There is no reason to change scripture just as there is no good reason to read ourselves into certain texts. The text you quoted (Act 2:8), had Jesus telling the disciples WITH HIM AT HIS ASCENTION that THEY were to wait in Jerusalem for the gift of God's Holy Spirit that was to be received within DAYS of Jesus uttering those words.
From the scriptures it would appear that the promise of the gift of the Holy Spirit as a fulfillment of the Joel 2 prophecy was for that generation upon whom the end of the ages had fallen upon. (1 Corinthians 10:11)
BTW: I believe calling it HS Baptism was just a metaphor that was used to describe the receipt of God's Holy Spirit

 

[Sparkey]

Webb, typing what you've said over and over again but in all caps does not impress me. The command that I have is to study to show myself approved and demonstrate this by rightly dividing the word of truth. That means that I have to work to understand things. You know this and do not need me to remind you. Part of what we do, in our due diligence, is seek with a humble spirit to know what it is that the Lord has spoken.

Shouting your version of what was said doesn't fit well with me.

 

[Sparkey]

Re: What's What With Baptism? Bathe, Breathe, Burn

We agree, but only to a point.

I can accept that many people do in fact agree with you and have no problem with that. It's not my understanding but there's nothing that says, "Sparrow is right," in the Bible or anywhere I can think of.

(Well, not yet, anyway - I'm certain that we both share the hope that the Lord will justify our claims personally.)

 

[Webb]

Webb, typing what you've said over and over again but in all caps does not impress me. The command that I have is to study to show myself approved and demonstrate this by rightly dividing the word of truth. That means that I have to work to understand things. You know this and do not need me to remind you. Part of what we do, in our due diligence, is seek with a humble spirit to know what it is that the Lord has spoken.

Shouting your version of what was said doesn't fit well with me.

Hi Sparrowhawke
If my "caps" offend you I apologize. I capitalized the scripture quotes to indicate it was God's word. I capitalized a small quote from you to allow other posters to better understand where I was making my point from. I didn't intend it to be shouting and in the future when corresponding with you I shall try to refrain.

God bless

 

[Guest]

Eph 4:5 is true. But it does not dismiss other Scripture. Our job is to understand, not debate.

Ephesians 4:5= 1 baptism. What is it about that that we don't understand? One, uno, 1! One plus 0 = ONE. No debate intended. By the time Paul wrote Ephesians (about 65 AD) there was only one baptism. Either that or Paul led by the Holy Spirit was misguided.

God bless

Eph 4:5 is speaking about Holy Spirit baptism through faith. Water baptism however is a mystery, at least to me.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Eph 4:5 is speaking about Holy Spirit baptism through faith. Water baptism however is a mystery, at least to me.

What exactly is the baptism refered to in Ephesians? Some believe it's meaning is somewhat metaphorical in that it simply refers to baptism's result which is being "in Christ" and that it has nothing to do with the method or actual act. Others use this text to assert that the only baptism that can get one in CHrist is water baptism. Who's right, I'm not certain, but I tend to think that the best scriptural case can be made for the baptism simply being a baptism in the Christ, which is the only baptism (no matter the method) that matters, thus ONE BAPTISM. I don't see the text referring to HS baptism either as again I believe that terminology simply uses the word baptize to illustrate a point of God's Holy Spirit communing with, empowering, etc. rather than being a literal act.

 

[Guest]

I don't see the text referring to HS baptism either as again I believe that terminology simply uses the word baptize to illustrate a point of God's Holy Spirit communing with, empowering, etc. rather than being a literal act.

Well of course you don't believe that, you're not a christian. Get saved first by the literal act, and then talk to me. Cheers.

 

[Webb]

Eph 4:5 is true. But it does not dismiss other Scripture. Our job is to understand, not debate.

Ephesians 4:5= 1 baptism. What is it about that that we don't understand? One, uno, 1! One plus 0 = ONE. No debate intended. By the time Paul wrote Ephesians (about 65 AD) there was only one baptism. Either that or Paul led by the Holy Spirit was misguided.

God bless

Eph 4:5 is speaking about Holy Spirit baptism through faith. Water baptism however is a mystery, at least to me.

Hi Urk
Holy Spirit baptism was a promise and Christ the administrator. Water baptism is a command and men the administrators, and is to last to the end of the world, Matt.28:19,20. There is a vast difference.

 

[Guest]

Hi Urk
Holy Spirit baptism was a promise and Christ the administrator. Water baptism is a command and men the administrators, and is to last to the end of the world, Matt.28:19,20. There is a vast difference.

Getting saved has nothing to do with water. I agree, there is a vast difference.

 

[Webb]

Hi Urk
Holy Spirit baptism was a promise and Christ the administrator. Water baptism is a command and men the administrators, and is to last to the end of the world, Matt.28:19,20. There is a vast difference.

Getting saved has nothing to do with water. I agree, there is a vast difference.

Surely you don't want to contradict your Savior and His inspired apostles: Mk.16:15,16, Matt.28:19,20, Rom.6:1-5, Gal.2:26,27, I Pet.3:21, Acts 2:38, Col.2:12, Acts 22:16 etc.
God bless

 

[iLOVE]

If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9 NIV

I look to scripture and see that Jesus told the thief on the cross, "Today you will be with me in Paradise." Was Jesus lying? The thief certainly had no chance for a watery baptism, although the baptism of the Holy Spirit could be considered. But then the Holy Spirit did not arrive until after Jesus' ascent in to Heaven. Yes, we must be baptized to be saved, BUT not in water!

 

[Guest]

Hi Urk
Holy Spirit baptism was a promise and Christ the administrator. Water baptism is a command and men the administrators, and is to last to the end of the world, Matt.28:19,20. There is a vast difference.

Getting saved has nothing to do with water. I agree, there is a vast difference.

Surely you don't want to contradict your Savior and His inspired apostles: Mk.16:15,16, Matt.28:19,20, Rom.6:1-5, Gal.2:26,27, I Pet.3:21, Acts 2:38, Col.2:12, Acts 22:16 etc.
God bless

I'm just speaking from experience. I was baptized in water when I was a baby, and then later in life when I could make choices, I chose Jesus by faith, not by water.

 

[reba]

Re: What's What With Baptism? Bathe, Breathe, Burn

To barrow a phrase from Pizzaguy

 

[lowrab777]

Ok as for me and my baptism I know that the physical act did not grant me salvation,.....
However the spirit that existed in me when I decided that I needed to be baptized was A sure proof to myself that I needed to do it strictly because I was compelled to do so,... It was none other than the Holy Spirit teaching me that I needed to obey what Jesus and John had commanded me to do,.....
I will never forget the practical WISDOM that the guys who baptized me imparted to me that day,... They both agreed as they asked me..
"Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the son of GOD?"
"Have you stopped sinning and repented of your sins ?"
"have you accepted JESUS CHRIST as your savior?"
then they asked me,....
"Do you understand that you will not be able to stop sinning?"
I knew,.... I did know,.... spite every intention I had to not sin again I knew.
And that is the very reason why I knew that I must and needed to be Baptized, It is for the REMISSION / FORGIVENESS OF SIN.
Being baptized is not the receiving of salvation.
IT IS THE REALIZATION THAT WE DESERVE TO DIE, AND THAT WE NEED JESUS CHRIST TO ACTIVELY BECOME OUR LIVING SAVIOR BECAUSE WE CANNOT ACHIEVE WHAT IS REQUIRED OF US.
And so by physically performing the act of baptism we agree with GOD that we should be dead right then and there.
IT IS AN HONORABLE ACT OF HUMILITY.
As if in that very place at that very moment we lay down our lives, for the sake inadequacy and the acknowledgement of JESUS as our only way to ever be reconciled to GOD because of our nature.

 

[Webb]

Hi Urk
Holy Spirit baptism was a promise and Christ the administrator. Water baptism is a command and men the administrators, and is to last to the end of the world, Matt.28:19,20. There is a vast difference.

Getting saved has nothing to do with water. I agree, there is a vast difference.

Surely you don't want to contradict your Savior and His inspired apostles: Mk.16:15,16, Matt.28:19,20, Rom.6:1-5, Gal.2:26,27, I Pet.3:21, Acts 2:38, Col.2:12, Acts 22:16 etc.
God bless

I'm just speaking from experience. I was baptized in water when I was a baby, and then later in life when I could make choices, I chose Jesus by faith, not by water.

When baptized as a baby was it immersion, sprinkling or pouring?

To take "Jesus by faith" is to do what He says, in the way He says do it and for the reason He says to do it, "If ye love me, keep my commandments" Jn.14:15. He said "--he that believes and is baptized shall be saved--" Mk.16:16. What"s wrong with that?
God bless

 

[lowrab777]

Ok as for me and my baptism I know that the physical act did not grant me salvation,.....
However the spirit that existed in me when I decided that I needed to be baptized was A sure proof to myself that I needed to do it strictly because I was compelled to do so,... It was none other than the Holy Spirit teaching me that I needed to obey what Jesus and John had commanded me to do,.....
I will never forget the practical WISDOM that the guys who baptized me imparted to me that day,... They both agreed as they asked me..
"Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the son of GOD?"
"Have you stopped sinning and repented of your sins ?"
"have you accepted JESUS CHRIST as your savior?"
then they asked me,....
"Do you understand that you will not be able to stop sinning?"
I knew,.... I did know,.... spite every intention I had to not sin again I knew.
And that is the very reason why I knew that I must and needed to be Baptized, It is for the REMISSION / FORGIVENESS OF SIN.
Being baptized is not the receiving of salvation.
IT IS THE REALIZATION THAT WE DESERVE TO DIE, AND THAT WE NEED JESUS CHRIST TO ACTIVELY BECOME OUR LIVING SAVIOR BECAUSE WE CANNOT ACHIEVE WHAT IS REQUIRED OF US.
And so by physically performing the act of baptism we agree with GOD that we should be dead right then and there.
IT IS AN HONORABLE ACT OF HUMILITY.
As if in that very place at that very moment we lay down our lives, for the sake inadequacy and the acknowledgement of JESUS as our only way to ever be reconciled to GOD because of our nature.

For what its worth I remember a dead fish floating on the bank of the lake that day. And my friend said BEHOLD THE DEAD FISH! IT IS A RESEMBLANCE OF THE DEAD MAN THAT IS LEFT HERE TODAY. LOL!

 

[Guest]

I'm just speaking from experience. I was baptized in water when I was a baby, and then later in life when I could make choices, I chose Jesus by faith, not by water.

When baptized as a baby was it immersion, sprinkling or pouring?

To take "Jesus by faith" is to do what He says, in the way He says do it and for the reason He says to do it, "If ye love me, keep my commandments" Jn.14:15. He said "--he that believes and is baptized shall be saved--" Mk.16:16. What"s wrong with that?
God bless

There's nothing wrong with water baptism. There are plenty of people who receive water baptisms when their adults but still do not have faith in their hearts. How is immersion, sprinkling or pouring relevant.

 

[Webb]

I'm just speaking from experience. I was baptized in water when I was a baby, and then later in life when I could make choices, I chose Jesus by faith, not by water.

When baptized as a baby was it immersion, sprinkling or pouring?

To take "Jesus by faith" is to do what He says, in the way He says do it and for the reason He says to do it, "If ye love me, keep my commandments" Jn.14:15. He said "--he that believes and is baptized shall be saved--" Mk.16:16. What"s wrong with that?
God bless

There's nothing wrong with water baptism. There are plenty of people who receive water baptisms when their adults but still do not have faith in their hearts. How is immersion, sprinkling or pouring relevant.

True, some have been baptized who were faithless but that's besides the point. Jesus said He that believes and is baptized shall be saved". Notice Jesus said "and" Baptism without belief is invalid and belief without baptism is likewise. Why can't we take what Jesus said at "face value"?

Why is immersion, sprinkling or pouring for baptism relevant? Because there is but "one baptism" and baptism is immersion. Surely you will find this out as you study to show yourself "approved unto God", II Timothy 2:15

 

[lowrab777]

There's nothing wrong with water baptism. There are plenty of people who receive water baptisms when their adults but still do not have faith in their hearts. How is immersion, sprinkling or pouring relevant.

what about the ethiopian mud puddle?

 

[iLOVE]

I'm just speaking from experience. I was baptized in water when I was a baby, and then later in life when I could make choices, I chose Jesus by faith, not by water.

When baptized as a baby was it immersion, sprinkling or pouring?

To take "Jesus by faith" is to do what He says, in the way He says do it and for the reason He says to do it, "If ye love me, keep my commandments" Jn.14:15. He said "--he that believes and is baptized shall be saved--" Mk.16:16. What"s wrong with that?
God bless

There's nothing wrong with water baptism. There are plenty of people who receive water baptisms when their adults but still do not have faith in their hearts. How is immersion, sprinkling or pouring relevant.

True, some have been baptized who were faithless but that's besides the point. Jesus said He that believes and is baptized shall be saved". Notice Jesus said "and" Baptism without belief is invalid and belief without baptism is likewise. Why can't we take what Jesus said at "face value"?

Why is immersion, sprinkling or pouring for baptism relevant? Because there is but "one baptism" and baptism is immersion. Surely you will find this out as you study to show yourself "approved unto God", II Timothy 2:15

So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls. Acts 2:41 ESV -

“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Matthew 3:11 ESV -

And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ Acts 11:16 ESV

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, Ephesians 2:8 ESV