When did the Law pass or has it passed away?

[Ryan]

a conditional promise for the time of exekiel. your verse there fails to take in account that the gate is open only shabat. hmm the law mentions daily sin offerings.



jesus has sex and marries a woman and has son's?

wheres that in the tanach or brit chadosh?



you missed that one above.

so the Lord sins???



I try not cherry pick. the priest need to atone before they do what? entire the sanctuary.

the modern saint need not this.

Seriously? Sonship can be of faith.

1. Acts 10:36
   The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)—
2. Galatians 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
3. Ephesians 1:5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

And like I said, it is not clear who the "prince" is.

 

[About the Son of God]

uhm. so they went to the temple.lol

really to the same jews that in the Talmud say that gentiles were for the fires of sheol(hell)...

Yep. Gentiles are "anathema" and sheol (or perhaps you really mean Gehenna? for sheol is not firey) was for gentiles...
There is also a biblical reference to Tartarous, for Satan -- I think -- which is in the "pit", and the ancient idea of that place is that one's crime, itself, was made into the punishment one received there...

.I find that hard to believe when it says go unto the word and well galatians is where and where and what are the churches.
I find it hard and really hard that any orthodox jew of that day would invite any gentile to the temple.sorry

The temple was arranged as a series of porches/or courts. The further in one went, the more sacred it became. The outer court was for gentiles (and it's where the money changers were, BTW.), then came the court of women, then came the court of men / priests / naos (holy).

There was a plaque, I believe, carved into one of the stones of the pillars at the inner court which carried a warning of death sentence for any Greek, or other barbaros, etc. entering that area.

But one of the purposes of the Temple was to be a light to the nations; which, of course, the racism of many of the Jews turned into a curse instead "My name is spoken ill of all the day long, on account of you."

In two senses, I think, the temple Jews/Israelites were making the Gentiles court (now called the wailing wall) a den of thieves; first because the money exchange was rigged to force everyone to use "TEMPLE" money / with judges who could prevent people from bringing their own animals on account of finding "defects" that weren't really there. Secondly, (and worse), because they used a loophole in the law to make sure the gentile court was so filled with animals -- it would be offensive to try and worship there.

In spite of this, There is evidence that Gentiles did come, at least occasionally... (I didn't read Ryan's post -- so I don't know if this applies... but I thought it might be helpful.)

Acts 8:26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.
Acts 8:27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,

Shalom messiah.
Peace of Christ to you.

 

[jasoncran]

the word temple was used then.

the word synagogues is where the word synod was used.jews the same jews then spoke greek? and used the word temple then or synod. really they called then schools as that is what they were if one wants to be that anal.

I looked it up.

NO, YOU TEACH MOSES AND THE CROSS. one needs to be circumcised. your words not mine.

actually they weren't. ever heard of the noahide laws?
http://www.noahide.com/7laws.htm

been around longer then moses.

my church preaches holiness. we use the ten commandments and also the new testament. we don't do shabat nor circumcision.

 

[Ryan]

it gets even better ..




are we not accepted Now at the cross when we repent? hmm

notice in that section it mentions now uncircumcised of heart or flesh gentile that is polluted may enter the sanctuary.



so is iseal doing that now?

How could one come into the presence of God if they were not believers? Only believers had the privilege of doing so.

 

[jasoncran]

yes I am aware of that. in history its recorded that during godly men that ruled isreal many gentiles did believe. but those were rare. it doesn't mention any mass conversion. but since we are discussing the Pharisees and that era I would focus there.

I come from a legalistic back ground. raised in it. this topic on another forum almost forced a jw convert to Christ to walk away. she was in bondage. if you have ever been a jw then you really will see the light burden of Christ.

the torah is rule book to teach us that already believe how to love god, but some of it has been rendered as about the son of god says obsolete. ie circumcision

why would a saved gentile believer need to be compelled(failing to do so meant death) to do Passover? what does that point to? the CROSS!

 

[Ryan]

the word temple was used then.

the word synagogues is where the word synod was used.jews the same jews then spoke greek? and used the word temple then or synod. really they called then schools as that is what they were if one wants to be that anal.

I looked it up.

NO, YOU TEACH MOSES AND THE CROSS. one needs to be circumcised. your words not mine.

actually they weren't. ever heard of the noahide laws?
http://www.noahide.com/7laws.htm

been around longer then moses.

my church preaches holiness. we use the ten commandments and also the new testament. we don't do shabat nor circumcision.

No, I speak of the entirety of the bible is to be followed. Because in doing so, one will live long and prosper, be blessed and will do well to follow it. God's words, not mine. Some people just choose to not believe those words. What one does whether they chose to follow or not follow is their business.

 

[jasoncran]

How could one come into the presence of God if they were not believers? Only believers had the privilege of doing so.

that isn't what that book is saying read the chapters in context. it says after you levite males cleanse yourself then will I accept you.

that is done away with, since no woman named Miriam levy could be a priest nor enter into that holy place! a kohen is only to be a male!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jasoncran]

sorry. I disagree. you said you must be circumcised and under the torah if you love god.

most churches call that added to the gospel.

its christs atonement only not Christ with the torah.noah never was circumcised nor did the shabat. nor nor did enoch.seth,etc

 

[Ryan]

yes I am aware of that. in history its recorded that during godly men that ruled isreal many gentiles did believe. but those were rare. it doesn't mention any mass conversion. but since we are discussing the Pharisees and that era I would focus there.

Nineveh

I come from a legalistic back ground. raised in it. this topic on another forum almost forced a jw convert to Christ to walk away. she was in bondage. if you have ever been a jw then you really will see the light burden of Christ.

And if the Torah was taught and observed properly, then maybe it wouldn't come off as being such. Of which it isn't. If I come across as legalistic, I'm sorry. I try my best, and keep on plugging along. But it has been nothing but an absolute blessing since starting to become Torah observant.

the torah is rule book to teach us that already believe how to love god, but some of it has been rendered as about the son of god says obsolete. ie circumcision

It's to teach us how to love God and others. It's the best guide book on how to live out our live.

why would a saved gentile believer need to be compelled(failing to do so meant death) to do Passover? what does that point to? the CROSS!

Nobody is compelled to do anything. Hence, free will

 

[JLB]

You completely missed my point which I think Jason understood as he is more educated then most in the Torah. My point is the passage in Exodus, pre-dates the implementation of the Levitical system. God forgave sins before cross, and forgave them afterwards. I wanted to know what the purpose of the Levitical system from Jason. Of course the blood of bulls doesn't forgive sin.

But you have choosen to ignore posts I have provided in response to yours. Why? I've taken the time to respond directly to yours.

This my response to your post.

Please don't change the subject. I have not ignored your posts.

The blood of bulls and goats can never take away sins.

So, your comment about the sins being removed before Christ is not accurate.

You seem sincere.

Study the scripture I gave and let's talk some more.


JLB

 

[jasoncran]

yes but in the millennium that is the case. surely if you have read the torah and understood it then you cant be unobservant to the succot and also ignore the Passover meal!

in shemot it says clearly that man shall die if he doesn't do the Passover!you bet there were gentiles

actually one cant count Assyria as that since Jonah warned of their destruction and no recorded of any conversion to jewry was mentioned.

 

[Ryan]

sorry. I disagree. you said you must be circumcised and under the torah if you love god.

most churches call that added to the gospel.

its christs atonement only not Christ with the torah.noah never was circumcised nor did the shabat. nor nor did enoch.seth,etc

One does not have to be circumcised to be justified. As I already said Abraham was 15-20 years after he was declared righteous before he went under the knife. Interesting question though. Will we all be circumcised in the millenium? If the law is written on our hearts, this was one of the eternal instructions. Just a question.

And Jesus would preach one taking away from his commandments as either a false prophet, or least in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Sorry, I don't wanna be called least.

 

[jasoncran]

uhm the circumcision while true is after the fact. that we agree but that isn't what the act 15 council said.

why then if the idea of circumsion was needed then didn't the church then teach it your way?instead it says that circumcision isn't needed.odd when they could have said. ye are justified already but the command of moses per the torah and ordered them gentiles to be circumcised . but they didn't.

surely paul whom wrote about that would know, since he was of the house of hillel when he was a Pharisee.

 

[Ryan]

yes but in the millennium that is the case. surely if you have read the torah and understood it then you cant be unobservant to the succot and also ignore the Passover meal!

in shemot it says clearly that man shall die if he doesn't do the Passover!you bet there were gentiles

actually one cant count Assyria as that since Jonah warned of their destruction and no recorded of any conversion to jewry was mentioned.

1. I am not being unobsevant about any of the feasts.

2. Yes, but there was processed in place in doing so. Wasn't a you missed it, let's stone you. Why do you say this knowing the parasha names, yet not understand it's purpose for the death penalty and due diligence in carrying it out. You have some misguided views about the Torah, and yeah, I would feel the same way if you were taught this stuff.

3. Oh, I thought you were talking about converters to God. Some made a formal conversion, but who cares. As long as they became believers is the most important thing.

 

[Ryan]

uhm the circumcision while true is after the fact. that we agree but that isn't what the act 15 council said.

why then if the idea of circumsion was needed then didn't the church then teach it your way?instead it says that circumcision isn't needed.odd when they could have said. ye are justified already but the command of moses per the torah and ordered them gentiles to be circumcised . but they didn't.

surely paul whom wrote about that would know, since he was of the house of hillel when he was a Pharisee.

Surely going under the knife is and was a big deal. Stephen did though. Like I said, all these commandments are given by God. It's up to us whether we keep them or not and where our heart draws us to. I don't have a mezuzah up yet. But I'm gong to study it and make sure I am doing it for the right reasons and for the right purposes. Some things we have to understand why we're doing them, before we do them. Others, not so much.

 

[Ryan]

This my response to your post.

Please don't change the subject. I have not ignored your posts.

The blood of bulls and goats can never take away sins.

So, your comment about the sins being removed before Christ is not accurate.

You seem sincere.

Study the scripture I gave and let's talk some more.


JLB

Sins were forgiven before the cross because God had already promised his son before the cross.

Hebrews 1:10
And, “You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of Your hands;

Hebrews 4:3
For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “As I swore in My wrath, They shall not enter My rest,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.

He operates outside of time. His promises are forever and eternal. That is why he was able to forgive in Exodus because of the blood that was going to be shed by Jesus.

 

[Ryan]

And with that. I am out for the night. Good night and God bless.

 

[jasoncran]

no I don't. I read it. I go to the jews when I choose to or the gentiles I know that studied it.

I pulled up quotes from hassidics on this site all the time. ramban is a Chassidic. so I guess a temple raised jew doesn't know his own torah these days?

and here why didn't the church say or do it your way?

Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

funny that is the burden they put on the gentiles.close to the noahide laws

odd. aint it.

no the levites aren't saved in that context. how is one atoned again in the law?

is it not the ritual cleansing need to enter the HOLY OF HOLIES, if they didn't they died.

the idea that the law wasn't for atonement is something new since it mentions it.

 

[jasoncran]

ok, ryan. you realize that you wont be differentiated tween jews if you do that.

if I told my aunt who is new if she did to conver that. she would say I though you were a Christian? she would then ask and then be likely to leave the church and fall away or never come to him. I have a rule I don't mention jewry nor ask with her.

 

[jasoncran]

I have never heard that the levites and its system wasn't away of atoning. when the lord accepted the offerings he forgave them.its one way to atone but not the only way in the tanach.