BigSodaExposer
Member
I dont think you have to worry. My instincts tell me we are there already and now it falls to the book of revelation.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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Why I want to be left behind
- Thread starter Kathi
- Start date
Sinthesis
Member
Mat 24:37 - But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 - For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 - And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Malachi
Member
Exactly. Took them all away to eternal Hell (though presently awaiting judgment in Hades). There was not a soul that survived the Flood.
Noah and his family were not "left behind" but sheltered through the Flood because of God's specific directions. Noah was asked to construct a special place of shelter -- the Ark -- which is a type of the Lord Jesus Christ. "And the LORD shut him in" (Gen 7:16). The "left behind" imagery clearly does not apply.
n2thelight
Member
Christ said for us to endure till the end,this false rapture is not the end...The end is His 2nd coming....
We are to remain in the field working until that time
The ones taken are taken by satan pretending to be Christ...
You will either have the seal of God,or the mark of the beast
We are to remain in the field working until that time
The ones taken are taken by satan pretending to be Christ...
You will either have the seal of God,or the mark of the beast
Yes, and while searching out the truth they would eventually run across Mark 13 which says -
24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Mark 13:24-27
That person would see that Jesus Comes after the tribulation, and is seen by all.
Then as he was searching some more he would find Hebrews 9:28 which says -
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28
Jesus returns a second time. He already came once, and will appear to all a second time.
Finally this person would continue to search and read what Paul wrote about the rapture.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
Whoever reads the words - Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds...
knows that there is no such thing as a "pre-trib" Rapture, because those that are Raptured are caught up at the same time as those who are Resurrected.
Know one believes the Resurrection is 7 years before the last Day.
JLB
Sinthesis
Member
It is Jesus who is applying the left behind imagery when comparing the days of Noah to the coming of the Son of Man. Jesus contrasts just two destinies for mankind; taken or left, and He doesn't leave a third option here of 'sheltered through'. Noah, as the goodman of the house, believed God and prepared accordingly, thus his family was not broken up, but all eight were saved when they were left out of the consequences of the flood. Regardless the details, Noah's salvation was of The Lord, and not Noah's own handiwork. We don't construct our shelter from death any more than our works save us from hell. Rather we trust, listen to, and obey God that things may go good for us, even if not in this life, then certainly in the next.
Mat 24:39 - And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 - Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 - Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 - Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:43 - But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mat 24:44 - Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Mat 24:40 - Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 - Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 - Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:43 - But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mat 24:44 - Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
B
Brother Mike
Guest
If talking about a biblical subject gets us out of sorts, I have to ask how much truth do I know, and why is the enemy getting folks mad at each other? Look at doctrines like Trinity. Gets folks real mad, mad enough to throw rocks at each other.
First, I am a hard core pre-trib rapture, beam me up Scotty, fly away person. The only person that can half way defend the post trib position here against me is JLB, I said half way
Most just make points they seen someone else make with no personal revelation, so it's easy to debate them.
Here is the problem though.
Mat 24:37-41 kjva 37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
If we are looking for pre-trib, we can find it. When Jesus comes, just like the days of Noah, God saves Noah and family in the boat, when the son of Man comes we are saved from the mess God is going to make this planet with seals and Vails by taking us. One is taken, the other is left. Just like Noah was was saved.
If we are looking for a Post trib, then we read it like. The flood came and took them, one in the field and one taken by the flood, and the other taken by the flood anyway. Taken away is a bad thing if your post trib.
Pre-trib qualifies their interpetation by what Jesus said next.
A servant who calls him Lord needs to watch, for we don't know what day or hour He comes. So, it's a good thing when the Lord comes and we watch because we are taken.
The issue with Matt is that Jesus never He is personally taking anyone. He said He is just coming. Depending on what Doctrine you want to believe, you add that in. Stay here with Jesus for 1,000 years going nowhere, or taken, then tribulation, then come back.
You have to have a pre concived doctrine to interpet it either way.
So, before getting upset, I ask myself, does the Post tribber have a vaild point also? The answer is Yes, if their pre concieved doctrine of Post tribulation is correct, then their interpetation fits.
You have to add the doctrine though on both sides, because Jesus in Matt did not say He is personally taking anyone. It was Paul that said that later.
So, I know we can harp all day on Matt 24, I need to tie in other text to prove a pre-trib Rapture.
Pretreist are lost, no need to even bother with them. Post trib is the same as pre-trib but the timing events are different and Jesus comes twice in the pre-trib version.
Blessings
smaller
Member
This is what WILL happen FIRST:
Matthew 13:40
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
The devil and his messengers will be sent away to the flames also ala Matt. 25, and YES, we, as believers, will be LEFT behind.
There will be a SEPARATION first.
Matthew 13:40
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
The devil and his messengers will be sent away to the flames also ala Matt. 25, and YES, we, as believers, will be LEFT behind.
There will be a SEPARATION first.
B
Brother Mike
Guest
If I was a Post Tribber, I would not even mention the order of Tares and Wheat. I would pick things that are not easy to defeat with other scriptures. Before counter posting with scriptures against someone else belief, you should really be prepared and know fully both sides.
However, I do have some time, and once again explain it.
The Order of Tares and wheat are not important to the post, pre trib debate. I try to avoid answering the novice, most the time. I save my post for seasoned well versed post tribbers like JLB who know what things not to mention and know what will be easy to counter.
However, I have time.
The seperatation of the righteous and wicked occur at the end of the world. The tares are gathered first, or the wicked in the World. The Angels come down, gather up the bad guys in the world and throw them into the winepress of God (Bad place to be) This event is partially desscribed in Rev 14 and the rest in Rev 19. The Start of 14 continues the fate of the 144,000 left off in Rev 7. John's visions where not in book order, but in the order given.
Joel gives us another scripture wittness to compare exactly the event of Wheat and Tares. (Joel 3:12-17)
Joel talks about the gathering of tares, end of World, the Battle in the Valley (Valley of decision I belive Joel called it) The 6th and 7th seal released along side the 7th Angels trumpet that ends tribulation and Jesus coming in Glory with the Angels to gather the wicked. Matt 24, Rev 14, Matt 13, Luke 17.
None of this disproves any pre-tribulation or Post Tribulation. Both sides believe the same thing. It's Preterist that have it all confused.
Sorry for no scripture post, I am on my tablet, and don't have my e-sword or bible.
smaller
Member
It proves 2 things. Wheat will still be here and since the tares are sent to fire there is no basis for tribulation.
B
Brother Mike
Guest
Are you saying you do not believe in a tribulation period coming on the whole earth?
The Wheat and tares do not prove a thing concerning post or pre trib doctrines.
smaller
Member
Obviously the great tribulation transpires before the separation of wheat and tares and with wheat still here.
After the devil and his messengers are sent to the fire the cause has been dealt with.
It shows some very obvious matters. Not that pretribbers care to see but whatever. Facts are there to view.
wonderasiwander
Member
do you believe this or is it an opinion of someone elses that u want to debate? i could kinda see this reasoning.....if not for the other cultures and religions other than christianity that mention ascension on the end times.......look it up...even ancient egyptian and atlantean theories such as the teachings of thoth.....i dont say this next statement in anger or hate....but...do not mock my god the great I AM the most high
Malachi
Member
What do you think the fire represents? Firstly, it is the fiery judgments on the ungodly during the Great Tribulation, and secondly it is the eternal burning in the Lake of Fire. So there is absolutely a basis for the Great Tribulation. Also, the parable of the tares should be read both from Mt 13:24-30 and Mt 13:36-43. You will notice that in v. 30 they are gathered and bound into bundles, but it is later in v. 42 that they are cast into "a furnace of fire". In the interim, the wheat is gathered ito the barn.
wonderasiwander
Member
just like a son/prince wpuld defend his father/king ..... i will defend my father....just saying..no judgements but tread carefully i sense u are riding a very fine line
B
Brother Mike
Guest
OK, thought you meant there is no tribulation coming and I was dealing with a Preterist. Glad it's not that.
The wheat and Tares though don't mean a thing, because it's both based on an assumption. Both camps agree with the Wheat and tares, so it's pointless to bring it up if trying to persuade a pre-tribber.
The assumption on the post trib camp is the church is seperated once the tares are removed. The assumption of the pre-trib view is those that have not taken the mark, and followed God are seperated. The church is already with the Lord waiting for it to all play out.
When viewing different doctrines we need to remove the assumption parts. Post trib assumes Jesus is coming one time, Pre trib assumes Jesus is coming twice.
You would have to prove that the Wheat is the church, and that's not possible, to prove or disprove. The wheat and tares are seperated at the end, pre-trib belief is that the church is not part of that anyway.
ezrider
Member
Kind of reminds me of the following scripture:
Malachi 4:1-3
For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven;
and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble:
and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts,
that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings;
and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
And ye shall tread down the wicked;
for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.