Why I want to be left behind

[th1b.taylor]

Sometimes I try to imagine what life will be like on the new earth. I believe that God created music and that He blessed some of His children with musical talent, both with instruments and voices. He did this for His glory.
I fully expect to hear you once again plucking on the strings of some instrument and hearing you sing the Praises to our Lord.

From what I've read and from my early conversion instigations I fully expect the music in Heaven to be the most beautiful music to herald the glory of God, non-stop. On top of that we will all have, perfect, glorified bodies and we will all sign praises to God with perfect and beautiful voices. And the instruments there will make my last Telecaster sound puny.

 

[th1b.taylor]

HEY! That stuff makes me all wobbly kneed, stop that.

 

[ezrider]

Can we address who Jesus was talking to and about when He said, "flee to the mountains."
Why and what scripture causes you to believe the ones who are told to flee are non-believers. This is an extremely important issue. If these are non-believers then a whole different view of these scriptures is in order for me.

I think when we read the words in Matthew 24, we need to understand that those words were spoken to Jews who still lived under the old covenant at the time. And though Jesus brought us the new covenant and the Kingdom of Heaven, he was also a prophet according to the old covenant.

Amos 3:6-7 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it? Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

As a prophet, we see Jesus warning the believers of the impending judgement of Jerusalem during their generation, the same as the prophet Jeremiah warned the people that it was God's will that they go into captivity in Babylon, before the destruction of Jerusalem in their own generation.

 

[Deborah13]

From what I've read and from my early conversion instigations I fully expect the music in Heaven to be the most beautiful music to herald the glory of God, non-stop. On top of that we will all have, perfect, glorified bodies and we will all sign praises to God with perfect and beautiful voices. And the instruments there will make my last Telecaster sound puny.

On the new earth I think we will all have the exact jobs that the Lord gives us. I don't think we will be sitting around strumming harps and singing all the time. I agree that the instruments on the new earth will be beyond those made by the hands of men. I sure hope that the voice that I have then is more pleasant than the one I have now. Those are ear muffs on that helmet.

 

[Deborah13]

I think when we read the words in Matthew 24, we need to understand that those words were spoken to Jews who still lived under the old covenant at the time. And though Jesus brought us the new covenant and the Kingdom of Heaven, he was also a prophet according to the old covenant.

Amos 3:6-7 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it? Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

As a prophet, we see Jesus warning the believers of the impending judgement of Jerusalem during their generation, the same as the prophet Jeremiah warned the people that it was God's will that they go into captivity in Babylon, before the destruction of Jerusalem in their own generation.

I agree. At that time the Gospel had not been brought to the Gentiles, they were Jews who believed Jesus was their Messiah. They were to pass on this prophecy to all believers. By the time the destruction came there were both Jews and non-Jews who were believers. Jesus didn't leave them to be taken by surprise when the destruction came and He told them what to do. Just as God told Noah and Lot what to do.

 

[Gary]

Why I want to be left behind

Only a person who is void of understanding would say such a thing.

This movie is a huge lie.
.

 

[JLB]

I think when we read the words in Matthew 24, we need to understand that those words were spoken to Jews who still lived under the old covenant at the time. And though Jesus brought us the new covenant and the Kingdom of Heaven, he was also a prophet according to the old covenant.

Amos 3:6-7 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it? Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

As a prophet, we see Jesus warning the believers of the impending judgement of Jerusalem during their generation, the same as the prophet Jeremiah warned the people that it was God's will that they go into captivity in Babylon, before the destruction of Jerusalem in their own generation.

Here is the event Jesus was teaching to his disciples -

And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives...

Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You...

This right out of Matthew 24!

Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst. 2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south. 5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You. 6 It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light; The lights will diminish. 7 It shall be one day Which is known to the Lord-- Neither day nor night. But at evening time it shall happen That it will be light. Zechariah 14:1-7

And again -


9 It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:9-10

The Lord did not "seek to destroy", the Roman army...


Matthew 24 is what was prophesied by The Lord, through Zechariah.


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

I will read and seriously consider your post.
We need to get a couple things cleared up first.
One is personal to me. I do not have a preterist view. I am not a preterist. If you want to call 99.9% of all the Protestant Church forefathers before the mid-1800's preterists, then you may call me a preterist, too. I hold to their view that most of Matt 24, Mark, and Luke is talking about the destruction of Judea in 70AD. I will consider that to be a compliment.
Maybe you don't know what preterism says but it is heresy. The Second Advent has not happened. The resurrection spoke of in Thessalonians has not happen. Preterism says they have. They say in effect that we are currently living on the new earth but it hasn't been completely restored yet. I do not believe any of these things.

Can we address who Jesus was talking to and about when He said, "flee to the mountains."
Why and what scripture causes you to believe the ones who are told to flee are non-believers. This is an extremely important issue. If these are non-believers then a whole different view of these scriptures is in order for me.

I am sorry if I caused you alarm, I was not trying to say your preterist, no more than I would like to be called one because I know Rev Chapter 12 is a past event as well as chapters 1-3

As the Scripture I gave you concerning the gospel preached all over the World then the end comes, is connected right to that ummm Angel of the Lord preaching it in Rev 14 then Jesus comes just as He said with the angels. The grapes are gathered and the vine is gathered in Rev 14. It matches Matt 24 perfectly, and does not included Paul saying the Word has been preached all over, which it has.

The thing that bothers me is I have to change my stance on the thinking the Church being faithful dictates to the Lord when He comes. It does in a sense, but it appears things are going down in the Fathers timing, not when we get around to doing all we are called to do.

Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
(Mat 24:16-20)

Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
(Zec 14:1-5)


And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
(Rev 19:14)

For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
(Rev 16:14)

The ones he told to flee into the mountains are those in Israel. There is about to be a great battle The devout ones keep the Sabbath and would not flee on the Sabbath Day. After Tribulation, Jesus sets down with all the saints. So the ones He is addressing are the ones mentioned in Zech. This is not the Church, This is God full fulling His promise to restore Israel again, which He does and brings the new city down.

The Church has nothing to do with this part, and this occurs about 3 1/2 years into tribulation when the temple is desecrated.

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(2Th 2:4)

Those folks Jesus first mentioned that flee into the mountains are not IN CHRIST. They don't call him Lord, they are devout and keep the Sabbath through. The ones that don't know the day or hour call Jesus Lord, have no idea when He comes to receive the church to himself.

 

[JLB]

Brother Mike said -

I am sorry if I caused you alarm, I was not trying to say your preterist, no more than I would like to be called one because I know Rev Chapter 12 is a past event

Do you believe the Tribulation is past?

Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. Revelation 12:13-14


This three and a half year period is a reference to the last 3 1/2 years of daniels 70th week, which is the Tribulation.

When the devil and his angels are cast down to the earth itself.


Remember he is called the prince of the power of the air.

he still has access to heavenly places.


12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Ephesians 6:12


I know what Jesus said -

17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name." 18 And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Luke 10:17-19


"I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven...

This very well could be a future reference...

In light of what Paul taught many years after Jesus made this statement, please consider that Satan and his angels still have access to the heavenly realms until the tribulation.

I personally believe that when Satan and his angels are cast down to the earth, it will be the great tribulation.


Your the blessed!


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

I am sorry if I caused you alarm, I was not trying to say your preterist, no more than I would like to be called one because I know Rev Chapter 12 is a past event as well as chapters 1-3

As the Scripture I gave you concerning the gospel preached all over the World then the end comes, is connected right to that ummm Angel of the Lord preaching it in Rev 14 then Jesus comes just as He said with the angels. The grapes are gathered and the vine is gathered in Rev 14. It matches Matt 24 perfectly, and does not included Paul saying the Word has been preached all over, which it has.

The thing that bothers me is I have to change my stance on the thinking the Church being faithful dictates to the Lord when He comes. It does in a sense, but it appears things are going down in the Fathers timing, not when we get around to doing all we are called to do.

Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
(Mat 24:16-20)

Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
(Zec 14:1-5)


And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
(Rev 19:14)

For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
(Rev 16:14)

The ones he told to flee into the mountains are those in Israel. There is about to be a great battle The devout ones keep the Sabbath and would not flee on the Sabbath Day. After Tribulation, Jesus sets down with all the saints. So the ones He is addressing are the ones mentioned in Zech. This is not the Church, This is God full fulling His promise to restore Israel again, which He does and brings the new city down.

The Church has nothing to do with this part, and this occurs about 3 1/2 years into tribulation when the temple is desecrated.

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(2Th 2:4)

Those folks Jesus first mentioned that flee into the mountains are not IN CHRIST. They don't call him Lord, they are devout and keep the Sabbath through. The ones that don't know the day or hour call Jesus Lord, have no idea when He comes to receive the church to himself.

I have read and re-read this your post several times and gone to the scriptures and read and re-read.
I'm sorry but I am going to need more of your help to see what you see.
Could you give me which verses (just a couple) out of Matt. 24 that you are comparing to a couple in Rev. 14. I'm not sure if you are comparing the 'clouds' verses and the 'reaping' to 'togethering' or something else.

 

[Brother Mike]

I have read and re-read this your post several times and gone to the scriptures and read and re-read.
I'm sorry but I am going to need more of your help to see what you see.
Could you give me which verses (just a couple) out of Matt. 24 that you are comparing to a couple in Rev. 14. I'm not sure if you are comparing the 'clouds' verses and the 'reaping' to 'togethering' or something else.

Well, I am trying to "NOT" compare it. As you continue to study the end time stuff, you run into new things that fit and it just "SEEMS" more right. I don't like the angel deal yet, but it matches. I also don't like comparing clouds because no matter how Jesus comes or time He comes He has to pass a cloud layer considering his current position.

Matt 24 Jesus is addressing two questions. The end of the World, and his coming (Age Aion) Jesus Always talked about what He had to say and why some things He said in response to the questions they asked throw us off unless we are alert.

All these are the beginning of sorrows.
(Mat 24:8)
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
(2Ti 3:1)

Seems to be a time coming when we have a beginning of sorrows. Things don't seem to get better from this point as He continues on talking.

The gospel needs preached to all nations of the earth.

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
(Mat 24:12-14)

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
(Rev 14:6)

Jesus said the end comes when the gospel is preached to all nations. It seems an angel does this followed by the next events.

Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
(Rev 14:7)

Rev 14 is not in order of timing events. It starts off telling us what happened to the 144,000 then connects back to Rev 19. So it's a series of Visions John Wrote down. Rev 19 is the following Order onto 20 which is the 1,000 years. We get part of what happens in 19.

We know this because judgement has come in Rev 14 when Jesus returns in the clouds with the angels.

And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
(Rev 14:14-16)

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
(Mat 24:29-31)

So, Angel preaches the gospel, Tribulations ends, and Jesus comes with angels to grab folk off the earth.

And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
(Rev 14:8)

Rev 14 describes what happened to Babylon which part of the descriptions of what happened in 19.

For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
(Rev 19:2)

19 goes on to describe the final battle.

So we have a gospel preached like Jesus said, we have angels grabbing folks, and we have the 6th seal broken at end of tribulation.

I guess we just hang out in heaven and watch it all go down on the big screen until it's time to join the Lord for the final showdown.

Blessings.

 

[Kathi]

Brother Mike I am interested in your answer to JLB when he asked "Do you believe the tribulation is past?".

 

[jocor]

I am sorry if I caused you alarm, I was not trying to say your preterist, no more than I would like to be called one because I know Rev Chapter 12 is a past event as well as chapters 1-3

Rev 12 is yet future. The male child is not Messiah, but the dead in Messiah that resurrected when the 7th angel sounded the last trumpet (Rev 11:15). The child in Rev 12:5 was born AFTER the woman started having labor pains (Rev 12:2). Labor pains equates to the Great Tribulation. Yeshua was born BEFORE the woman had any labor pains (Isaiah 66:7).

 

[Deborah13]

Well, I am trying to "NOT" compare it. As you continue to study the end time stuff, you run into new things that fit and it just "SEEMS" more right. I don't like the angel deal yet, but it matches. I also don't like comparing clouds because no matter how Jesus comes or time He comes He has to pass a cloud layer considering his current position.

Matt 24 Jesus is addressing two questions. The end of the World, and his coming (Age Aion) Jesus Always talked about what He had to say and why some things He said in response to the questions they asked throw us off unless we are alert.

Mat 24:3 And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what is the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?'
They don't ask about the end of the earth or world.

All these are the beginning of sorrows.

(Mat 24:8)
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
(2Ti 3:1)

Seems to be a time coming when we have a beginning of sorrows. Things don't seem to get better from this point as He continues on talking.

Yes, when these words were spoken perilous times were coming. Stephan was killed, the apostles were killed, and there were others that between the Jews and the Romans they were busy trying to stop the defection from the old Judaism.

Matthew 21:33-41, Jesus speaks to them in a simile.
Mat 21:41 They say to him, `Evil men--he will evilly destroy them, and the vineyard will give out to other husbandmen, who will give back to him the fruits in their seasons.'

The gospel needs preached to all nations of the earth.
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
(Mat 24:12-14)
And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
(Rev 14:6)
Jesus said the end comes when the gospel is preached to all nations. It seems an angel does this followed by the next events.

Paul said that the Gospel was brought to all nations in his day.
Sometimes we forget that the Greek word 'angelos' means messenger and they are not always spirit beings. They are men who are messengers of the Gospel.

Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
(Rev 14:7)

Luk 19:43 `Because days shall come upon thee, and thine enemies shall cast around thee a rampart, and compass thee round, and press thee on every side,
Luk 19:44 and lay thee low, and thy children within thee, and they shall not leave in thee a stone upon a stone, because thou didst not know the time of thy inspection.' [or judgement, Deb13]

Rev 14 is not in order of timing events. It starts off telling us what happened to the 144,000 then connects back to Rev 19. So it's a series of Visions John Wrote down. Rev 19 is the following Order onto 20 which is the 1,000 years. We get part of what happens in 19.

We know this because judgement has come in Rev 14 when Jesus returns in the clouds with the angels.

And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
(Rev 14:14-16)

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
(Mat 24:29-31)

So, Angel preaches the gospel, Tribulations ends, and Jesus comes with angels to grab folk off the earth.

And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
(Rev 14:8)

Rev 14 describes what happened to Babylon which part of the descriptions of what happened in 19.

For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
(Rev 19:2)

19 goes on to describe the final battle.

So we have a gospel preached like Jesus said, we have angels grabbing folks, and we have the 6th seal broken at end of tribulation.

I guess we just hang out in heaven and watch it all go down on the big screen until it's time to join the Lord for the final showdown.

Blessings.

I'm trying to address in smaller amounts of scripture.
Blessings to you, too.

 

[Brother Mike]

Rev 12 is yet future. The male child is not Messiah, but the dead in Messiah that resurrected when the 7th angel sounded the last trumpet (Rev 11:15). The child in Rev 12:5 was born AFTER the woman started having labor pains (Rev 12:2). Labor pains equates to the Great Tribulation. Yeshua was born BEFORE the woman had any labor pains (Isaiah 66:7).

We need to seek what Jesus actually done at the cross for us today, and what belongs to us today. Learn our authority over the enemy, know our protective promises. Getting wrapped up in this end stuff does us no good if the enemy takes us out early and robs us of the plan of God. Be blessed

Mat 24:3 And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what is the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?'
They don't ask about the end of the earth or world.

Right and the Reason I used the correct word Age. Aion has a start and end age as we both know. My concern is how Jesus answered questions. He had a habit of going of into a much deeper THANG, and what was asked. It's why I have the issue with the simple small time frame of just coming to an end at 70ad, when in fact it's the only place he tied into those seals and all the mess that happened in Rev.

I guess just pray about it and decided what exactly the End meant when He was speaking. I tied that angel and the gospel to him coming in the same chapter with angles. Until you had me look into this I always just believed that WE the church preached the gospel, filled the earth with the word then the end came. An angle got in my way though with the gospel connected to His coming with the angels. Angels even want to look into the things reveled to us, wonder why God is so mindful of us. How does an Angel get that commission?

Matt ties into Revelation, the 6th seal and him coming. Paul did say the gospel was preached everywhere, but Paul never tied that to the end. After that 6th seal, nothing else really happens but a war, 1,000 years and an awesome city dropping down to run around in.
There is still more for us though.

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
(1Co 2:9-10)

We get glimpses of this through a glass darkly that will not be removed until.

But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
(2Co 3:18)

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
(1Jn 3:2)

Something to look forward to.

One thing is for certain, lets not get wrapped up in blood moons or all the hype, We are led by the Spirit, not news media.

Blessings and above all that you ask or think (Eph 3:20)

 

[Deborah13]

I think it would be more prudent for you to seek what Jesus actually done at the cross for us today, and what belongs to you today. Learn your authority over the enemy, know your protective promises. Getting wrapped up in this end stuff does you no good if the enemy takes you out early and robs you of the plan of God. Be blessed



Right and the Reason I used the correct word Age. Aion has a start and end age as we both know. My concern is how Jesus answered questions. He had a habit of going of into a much deeper THANG, and what was asked. It's why I have the issue with the simple small time frame of just coming to an end at 70ad, when in fact it's the only place he tied into those seals and all the mess that happened in Rev.

I guess just pray about it and decided what exactly the End meant when He was speaking. I tied that angel and the gospel to him coming in the same chapter with angles. Until you had me look into this I always just believed that WE the church preached the gospel, filled the earth with the word then the end came. An angle got in my way though with the gospel connected to His coming with the angels. Angels even want to look into the things reveled to us, wonder why God is so mindful of us. How does an Angel get that commission?

Matt ties into Revelation, the 6th seal and him coming. Paul did say the gospel was preached everywhere, but Paul never tied that to the end. After that 6th seal, nothing else really happens but a war, 1,000 years and an awesome city dropping down to run around in.
There is still more for us though.

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
(1Co 2:9-10)

We get glimpses of this through a glass darkly that will not be removed until.

But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
(2Co 3:18)

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
(1Jn 3:2)

Something to look forward to.

One thing is for certain, lets not get wrapped up in blood moons or all the hype, We are led by the Spirit, not news media.

Blessings and above all that you ask or think (Eph 3:20)

Blessings to you, Mike.

Eph 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

 

[jocor]

I think it would be more prudent for you to seek what Jesus actually done at the cross for us today, and what belongs to you today. Learn your authority over the enemy, know your protective promises. Getting wrapped up in this end stuff does you no good if the enemy takes you out early and robs you of the plan of God. Be blessed

Huh? What does that mean?
How about addressing my point about Rev 12

Edited reba

 

[Brother Mike]

edited

However, if Rev 12 is a future event, then we are lost.

I'll play the game though, just to be nice.

Male Child = Not the Messiah, but the dead in Christ. Those brought up when the 7th angel blew a trumpet.
Labor pains = Great tribulation

So, how do we arrive at the conclusion that Labor pains is the Great tribulation?
How do we take Man Child caught up to the Fathers throne to equate into millions of people caught up, when the 7th angel blows a trumpet to end tribulation?

What scriptures are you using to make these interpretations that Man Child is us, the believers and Labor pains is the Great tribulation?

And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
(Rev 12:5)

What makes you place this event "After Tribulation"?

A man Child, with Iron Rod.
What scripture do we connect this with to make it known that its us believers that have an iron Rod that will rule all nations?

Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
(Psa 2:6-10)

But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
(Isa 11:4)

All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee. For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.
(Psa 22:27-28)

Believers given an Iron rod to rule nations:
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
(Rev 2:26-27)

Could be us the church, could be Jesus.

Who Satan try to devour?
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
(Rev 12:4)

This Man Child had Satan ready to devour him as soon as He was born. Satan sent 1/3 of his forces to accomplish this.
This is not the Church, or believers. We don't pose a threat to the devil until after we are born again.

There was a child that did pose a threat to Satan's Kingdom though.

Mat 2:16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.
Mat 2:17 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying,
Mat 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.

Thus saith the LORD; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rahel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not.
(Jer 31:15)

So, 1 point for us as the Man Child, 2 points for Jesus.

War in Heaven:

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
(Rev 12:7-9)

The devil and His angels were cast down to the Earth, and Satan had no more place in Heaven.

When did this take place? What else took place when this happened?

And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
(Luk 10:18-20)

When Satan fell from Heaven, Jesus gave us authority over him. Jesus saw it.

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
(Rev 12:10)

So when did Salvation come? When did the Kingdom of God come? When did the power of Christ come (anointing)?

But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
(Mat 12:28)

Satan can't overcome the Power of the Holy Spirit, and the Kingdom of God has come already.

Devils know their time is short:

And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
(Mat 8:29)

When Jesus came with the word, it was considered to be the rest of the last of days.

Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
(Heb 1:2)

So if Rev 12 is a Future Event, there is no Salvation now, no Power of the anointing (Christ) and No Kingdom of God.
No authority over Satan.

Not possible.

Mike.

 

[JLB]

Brother Mike said -

A man Child, with Iron Rod.
What scripture do we connect this with to make it known that its us believers that have an iron Rod that will rule all nations?

26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations-- 27 'He shall rule them with a rod of iron; They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter's vessels'-- as I also have received from My Father; Revelation 2:26-27


and again -


21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. 22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." ' "
Revelation 3:21


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations-- 27 'He shall rule them with a rod of iron; They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter's vessels'-- as I also have received from My Father; Revelation 2:26-27


and again -


21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. 22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." ' "
Revelation 3:21


JLB

i covered that already. We get the Iron rod given to us who overcome. We did not bring the Salvation or Kingdom of God, Jesus did, and Jesus also rules the nations with an Iron rod, we rule with him.

Also attempts on our life are not made after being born, it was on Jesus though, and everything must match. EVERYTHING.

Rev 1-3 and 12 are in the past. Jesus saw Satan get the boot and loose his position in Heaven, that is why we have authority over him now through the Kingdom of God.

If Rev 12 is future tense, then we have no salvation yet, no Kingdom of God yet and life and no anointing the Power of Christ yet.

I think I covered this once already in another thread with you though.

Be blessed Brother