Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Why is contraception a deadly sin?

Homeskillet,

I am specifically speaking of couples that are married, and are believers. If you have a couple, who is wanting to know what God desires for them in this area, I think it is good to encourage them that Scripture teaches us to receive His blessings as He pours them out. The financial, emotional, and spiritual aspects of this are also in God's Word...they all go hand in hand as we try and obey God. I am not suggesting that we are allowed to not be responsible in all these other areas, but we better be having babies. I am saying that maybe we should make children a priority before cable, eating out, the movies...etc. That children are a blessing because God says they are, and we should do our best to have them, and care for them. But, when tragedy hits us, and it will, we trust God to meet our needs, while doing our best to be prayerful, obedient, and to work hard and make an effort.

If someone is not prepared for marriage, and children, that should be addressed before they are married. The two go hand in hand. I am teaching my sons, and daughter, that certain criteria will have to be met before they marry with my permission, and blessing. First, are they ready Spiritually, everything else will follow if they are. Are my sons willing to, and trained to, Lead, support, protect, train, and sacrifice for their wives and children. Is my daughter trained to submit, respect, love, and serve her husband and to care for, train, and protect their children? I am talking about getting back to God's picture of His people multiplying, and how that relates to our relationships in this world and to God, and how much we value them and His will. It does not benefit us to distort that picture, imo, by not preparing for it, by allowing immorality to pervert it, and by using artificial means to prevent it...out of fear or selfish motives. Trusting God, and obeying His Word, are the most practical things a believer can do. Israel kept multiplying even in captivity. Those who want to please Him in this area, sincerely, will be able to do it because He will bless them for their obedience...and they will do their best to put His will first in every area out of love, not external pride.

I want to share my own struggles in this area. When I was first married I had just started working in my desired field...two years into it. My husband thought it would be best if I quit, and stayed home with our son. He felt God's Word taught this was best for our family. We were planning to have our house built in a nice area...with nice schools. I made more than he did, nearly twice as much at that time. I was afraid to quit because of financial security. He decided we would buy a home in the city...much smaller, and cheaper. I submitted...but not with the best attitude, and not convinced it was the right thing to do. About three months after my husband and I did this...he lost his job. Boy, did people bad mouth us about how we couldn't afford for me not to work, and that we definitely could no afford another child. Now, after my first son's birth I wanted to get a permanent operation to prevent more pregnancies. I was extremely sick with him, and had miscarried before we had him. I just could not go through that sickness again. My husband asked me to trust him, and to trust the Lord. I did. And then he lost his job, as I said. I was scared to death...another baby was coming. I was so discouraged. I became bitter inside because the words of those who thought we were so stupid for trusting God, and obeying Him, were ringing in my ears. We began to cut out anything we could to save money. Our savings was dwindling, and my husband was working for pennies at various jobs...praying that God would give him something better. Just before our youngest son was born, he was given a job in the warehouse of an investment firm. It payed the bills. I was learning how to budget well, and how to get bargins. I was offered my job back...it was so tempting. But God was working in my heart on this matter. The words of others didn't mean anything to me anymore. I began to desire something more than financial security in my life. I wanted God to teach me to trust Him, and be given over to His will on these matters. I wanted my family to be my ministry. I had a vision. I wanted to help my husband in his endeavors, and to raise children that had been trained God's way. This desire began to burn in my heart. I wanted more children, many of them. Then, my daughter was on the way, what a blessing. By that time, my husband was no longer working in the warehouse, but because of his hard work, and integrity, he was a project manager in the firm. I saw God work it out, and I praise Him to this day for it. I learned so much. What a blessing that was, and it helped me to trust Him more. God had truly changed my heart on this issue, and many others that it touched on. But, more importantly, I learned that He is faithful when you obey Him. It was a great preparation for me with things to come in my life.

Now that I am doing things as a single person, I am so blessed by the three little ones we were able to have. I am still able to stay home with them, and I am blessed to be doing this ministry still. God gave me what I wanted before I even knew what it was. I am trusting Him for more blessings if I ever marry again. I am not doing this out of a desire to earn my way to heaven. I am hoping to be able to mother more children because I love God, His commands, and His blessings.

Well, I just wanted to explain where I was coming from, and why I am so passionate about this topic. Blessings
 
By the Way, I just wanted to clarify that I am not Catholic...I am a protestant, as I mentioned to Catholicxian in an earlier post. Blessings.

Merry wrote:
But please by all means, tear down all your idols...this includes the ones of mary etc etc
 
If you feel that having baby after baby after baby after baby after baby is what you think God requires you to do to go to heaven then you can continue to do that if you so desire.

I do not however. My walk with my Daddy is between me and him and is of no concern of yours. I am blessed ALL the time. I am continually blessed by my children and I'm continually blessed in other areas...he has not withhold his favour from me just because I think that 4 children are enough. In fact the continues to pour out his blessings upon me and I continue to be fruitful and multiply spiritually.

Actually, as I said before, if God wants us to have another baby then he will bless us. He's done it before!

Meanwhile I walk in Him and Him in me and we are one my father and I...and no one will judge me because HE doesn't judge me. I walk in truth that is Christ and that's where I stay!
 
Lovely, thank you for your testimony here and sharing your passionate beliefs. I do still disagree mostly, but I reckon that's ok. This is an issue that I will continue to read, study, and pray over. Perhaps the Spirit will convict my heart differently, but for now my position remains unchanged.

Again, thank you for your post, I think I understand your stance a little better now.

In Christ,
Josie
 
Josie,

I imagine, as believers, we will all disagree on certain areas as we walk together here in this world. You have such a sweet spirit, it blesses me.

"I will continue to read, study, and pray." Josie, I don't care what the topic is, these are the words of a believer in love with our Lord. I want this heart too.

I appreciate you taking the time to see my heart. I am always prayerful that He will prune me, and help me grow in love. That is a painfully sweet process, but I long for it. I am thankful for you, Josie, as I have learned a great deal from your posts here at CF. Blessings.
 
Merry,

I didn't want to just ignore your post, so I will respond once more and for the last time in this thread to you. Unfortunately, we are failing to communicate, and that grieves me. My motives, and heart on this topic, have been twisted by you. You have accused me of being Judgemental, someone who believes that you can earn your salvation by works, someone who tempts the Lord, someone who's understanding is based in the Law, someone who worships Mary, and even after clarification on my part you continued in it, basically ignoring all I have shared. Then you go on to say that somehow because I have posted the things in my heart on this matter that I have "butted" into your walk with God. Everything you have said is simply untrue. I have not communicated any of this to you
at all, nor has it been in my heart as I post. I can not perceive what is going on inside you by a few posts in a thread, but I have stated the reasons that support why I believe what I do, and you have chosen to disregard them by continuing to twist them.

Honestly, I do not feel that it is wise to continue to post to you when you seem to be set on being offended, even if it means that you must twist my words by deliberately interpreting my motives incorrectly to do it. I wish you nothing but blessings, but I do feel the way you have treated me has been unkind.

In Christ,
Lovely
 
lovely,
You truly live up to your name. :) You have a very lovely heart, and I pray that when I am married and have children I will approach these issues with the same maturity, love, and faith in God that you have! Know that your post was interpreted just as you intended it here, and every bit appreciated. :)
God bless,
-McQ 8-)
 
Here are some practical reasons why Natural Family Planning is better than contraceptives.



Natural Family Planning and Teamwork:

For marriage to be successful it takes a lot of teamwork. I have found that NFP has helped my wife and I work together. It takes two for NFP to work. The responsibility does not rest on one partner. NFP takes both partners to contribute in significant ways. Another point is that the mutual sacrifice of abstaining during parts of the cycle brings my wife and I closer together.

The Pill and Teamwork:

The pill does not require teamwork and it does not facilitate teamwork in marriage. The responsibility rests on one partner while the other partner has no accountability. I would also say that the pill fosters using your spouse as an object because without sex being connected to procreation it becomes more about fulfilling ones own needs instead of giving life and love to each other in the relationship.

Natural Family Planning and Trust:

For a marriage to work it requires a lot of trust. I have found that NFP has improved the trust that my wife and I have. We have to trust each other about not pressuring each other to have sex. A lot of trust is built between my wife and I when she lets me know what her body is doing. NFP also builds trust in regards to confidence that there is fidelity to each other. If she can see that I am able to hold off gratification during certain points of her cycle it also shows that I will be able hold of gratification outside of the relationship. Finally it builds our trust in God and what he wants in our life because we have to submit to his will with NFP.

The Pill and Trust:

The pill builds little trust. In fact it can undermined trust because it contributes to the fantasy that there is little consequence for sex outside of marriage. Also, if a man has not had practice delaying gratification, because of the pill, it does not build trust that the partner will be able to remain faithful when tempted. Finally the pill does not build trust with God because the trust rests with the pill.

Natural Family Planning and Communication:

I have found that using NFP there is a lot more communication. There are a lot of conversation about what phase my wife is in and when we want to have more children. There is also the discussion of what does God want us to do. And the sexual union itself is better able to say, “I love youâ€Â.

The Pill and communication:

The pill really does not encourage a lot of communication.

Natural Family Planning and Respect:

I have found the NFP has made it so I respect my wife more. I have learned a lot about how her body works and it is an amazing thing. If you respect the body you’re going to respect the person.

The Pill and Respect:

I think the Pill is a lot like pornography in a way. What is wrong with pornography is that it takes something beautiful and separates it from the gift and turns it into an object to be use. The pill in the same way takes something beautiful and separates it from the gift of life so that the person can be used as an object for personal gratification. This does not build respect but instead destroys it.

Natural family planning and the gift of Children:

With NFP sex is not removed from the context of children and it is always open to the powers of the human body and the gift of children.

The Pill and Children:

The pill is used in the context that children unacceptable burdens and that sex and procreation need to be radically separated to protect from producing children.

Natural Family Planning and Fertility:

With NFP fertility is respected because you need to work with the body.

The Pill and Fertility:


With the pill fertility is treated like an illness that needs to be medicated.

Natural Family Planning and Health:

NFP is healthy because it works with, not against, the natural cycles of the human body. It also works. A “study, published in the June 1998 issue of the Journal of Reproductive Medicine, found the technique had an impressive 96% effectiveness rate in preventing pregnancy, comparing favorably to condoms and diaphragms…â€Â

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/14/ ... ectedguid={5FE84E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}

The Pill and Health:

The pill has serious side effects. Which include “...nausea, high blood pressure, blood clots, decreased libido, liver tumors, breast cancer and abortion.â€Â

Natural Family Planning and the Domestication of Men:

Men naturally have a strong sex drive. With this amount of sex in a relationship can turn into a power struggle. With NFP this is not the case because I have to listen to her body and it is what determines when we can have sex. Not my sex drive, but my wife natural cycle. I have to submit to my wife in this way and it has lead to me respecting my wife more. It also leads to more self-mastery because I do have to abstain. This in turn makes it so that I can give sex as an act of love instead of an act of selfishness.

The Pill and the Domestication of Men:

The pill makes it so that a man’s sex drive is what is in control. Sex is not about giving but fulfilling one’s own sex drive. There is no opportunity and motivation to abstain. It causes power struggles between men and women who do not have the same sex drive cycle. Instead of men acting like men and laying down their lives for their wives they become slaves to their sex drive.


Natural Family Planning and a Time and Season for all Things:

The Bible says for everything there is a time and season and I think in many ways this is what gives things their power. If Christmas happened once a week instead of once a year it would become a burden instead of a gift. There is a saying that absence makes the heart grow fonder. This is also true with abstinence.

The Pill and a Time and Season for all Things:

With the pill there is no time or season and because of this sex become boring, stale and a burden.

Natural Family Planning and Spiritual Growth:

My wife and I use of NFP has helped us spiritually because we are better able to conform to God’s plan for us and open to his will.

The Pill and Spiritual Growth:

The use of the pill by Catholics hurts spiritual growth. It is hard to totally embrace the Bride of Christ when the Church’s stance on contraception is rejected.

Natural Family Planning and the Environment:

NFP is natural and has no adverse affects on the environment.

The Pill and the Environment:

The pill has shown to be damaging to the environment.

Estrogen in Contraceptives Threatens Fish Populations

http://www.healthfinder.gov/news/newsst ... cID=522249

Natural Family Planning and Money:

NFP is really inexpensive once one learns how to do it. All you really need is a thermometer and a chart. The poorest of the poor can affectively use this method in any environment.

The Pill and Money:

The pill costs money and you need to have constant access to it. It is not feasible in every environment.



If you are interested in learning more about Natural Family Planning I recommend the book, The Art of Natural Family Planning.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... 9?v=glance


This is how my wife and I learned to use NFP. Try it, you might just like it.
 
i think christians have gone too far with this... the pope can tell all the world that using a condom is a aberration of god.. while he sits in his golden chair and eats what he wants...

but when ignorant people hear this, they think that they will go to hell if they put a condom, so they keep having childrens they cant support. And they die of hunger, and its a horrible way to die. That brainwashing must end. The world is very well populated.

And if its god will to let millions die, instead of someone putting a condom on, that doesnt harm a fly, well i think i dont like god very much, guess God is a cruel god...

I dont think priests should influence that much people. I mean god didnt tell em to be representatives of god, but they say they are.

I think religions must cease to exist, I mean, common muslim guys are living in the 13th century, womens are animals, they kill thousand of people for Alah. Hindus worship cows....

I think your relationship with God is personal, if you believe in god, and you shouldnt be forced to values such as no condoms...

thats just my 2 cents (and i know i will be flamed for them)
 
Punk-O-Rama said:
i think christians have gone too far with this... the pope can tell all the world that using a condom is a aberration of god.. while he sits in his golden chair and eats what he wants...

but when ignorant people hear this, they think that they will go to hell if they put a condom, so they keep having childrens they cant support. And they die of hunger, and its a horrible way to die. That brainwashing must end. The world is very well populated.

And if its god will to let millions die, instead of someone putting a condom on, that doesnt harm a fly, well i think i dont like god very much, guess God is a cruel god...

I dont think priests should influence that much people. I mean god didnt tell em to be representatives of god, but they say they are.

I think religions must cease to exist, I mean, common muslim guys are living in the 13th century, womens are animals, they kill thousand of people for Alah. Hindus worship cows....

I think your relationship with God is personal, if you believe in god, and you shouldnt be forced to values such as no condoms...

thats just my 2 cents (and i know i will be flamed for them)

Knock it off Punk-O-Rama! "Common sense" are an ugly couple a'words 'round heah :wink:
 
Punk-O-Rama said:
i think christians have gone too far with this... the pope can tell all the world that using a condom is a aberration of god.. while he sits in his golden chair and eats what he wants...

but when ignorant people hear this, they think that they will go to hell if they put a condom, so they keep having childrens they cant support. And they die of hunger, and its a horrible way to die. That brainwashing must end. The world is very well populated.
unfounded blanket statements.... there is no brainwashing going on.

Futhermore, no one here is advocating the begetting of children they cannot support. Advocating procreation is about advocating responsibility, to one's body, one's spouse, and to the commands of God. This doesn't mean have so many children that you are forced to live on welfare... but look at lovely's beautiful testimony of trust in God, it's about raising children responsibly and not necessarily lavishly. Do we NEED cable, brand name clothes, the biggest TV we can find, etc.? Imagine life without cable-- no worrying about MTV or other ridiculous channels, and plenty of time (while the "boring" programs are on) to gather together as a family and communicate with each other rather than merely existing together on the couch with a TV dinner.


And if its god will to let millions die, instead of someone putting a condom on, that doesnt harm a fly, well i think i dont like god very much, guess God is a cruel god...
If you're talking the AIDS crisis in Africa, I think it FAR BETTER to treat people like humans rather than animals (with only insticts) and advocate for abstinence to solve the problem rather than relying on a thin layer of plastic.

We are not animals, we can respect others enough to abstain from relations that increase the risk of our harming them (even unintentionally). We can control our urges... despite what MTV would have us think.
I dont think priests should influence that much people. I mean god didnt tell em to be representatives of god, but they say they are.
do you also object to Christ's words to His disciples that "he who hears you, hears me" (Luke 10:16)?

Priests are not so much representatives of God as they are pastors (presbyters)... their role (and main function) is to tend Christ's Church.

Perhaps though you are thinking more of the Papacy. The Pope is merely the visible head of the visible Church on earth. Christ is true Head of the Body of Christ (the Church, which exists both visibly and invisibly). Catholics see this especially in Christ's words to Peter in Matthew's Gospel.

I think religions must cease to exist, I mean, common muslim guys are living in the 13th century, womens are animals, they kill thousand of people for Alah. Hindus worship cows....

I think your relationship with God is personal, if you believe in god, and you shouldnt be forced to values such as no condoms...
"religion" does not deny a personal God, nor does it devalue a relational God with faithful people living out faith through a vital and personal relationship with Him.

I think it's a bit unfair to compare Christianity to other religions... they are intrinsically different at their core. Yes, they may all seek a higher being, but Christianity (faith in Christ) is a radical revision of how we see the human person, the world, and God.

the value isn't merely rejecting condoms, but embracing a view of the sacredness of sexuality, and the dignity of human persons (and life) as lovely has done a great job of demonstrating (far better than I'd be able to articulate), even though she doesn't adhere to the authority of the Pope and isn't Catholic. It's not just a "catholic-following-the-Pope" thing, it's the Magisterium of the Church confirming a truth about the human person (about God's creation of the human person), a confirmation of the dignity of human life (as a child of God), and a confirmation of the sacredness (and uniqueness) of the conjugal act within marriage.

thats just my 2 cents (and i know i will be flamed for them)
disagreement isn't necessarily "flaming"... only opportunities to grow in love, charity, and discernment of God's will. We can disagree and still be nice to each other. :)
 
Lovely - I'm sorry if I've offended you - that's not my intention. I have gotten the distinct impression from this thread that one must not stop oneself from having children and that it's against God to do so. Therefore, I find that way of thinking very judgemental because it does not allow for personal revelation and it seems that the individual wishes to come in-between man's relationship with God and dictate to them THEIR INTERPRETATION of the Word.

This I do not like. And if I come across as defensive it's because I've had man's interpretation shoved down my throat all my life and I've become distrustful of those who are seen to be doing the same thing. If that's not what you were doing - I apologise. I have trust issues...it's my problem not yours.

Truce?
 
Merry,

Thank you for letting me know where you are coming from. I understand completely. I am sorry that my posts in this thread brought that up in you, that was truly not my intention. I would never try and force people to believe as I do. I know that it is not even truly possible to do, really, so it would be done in vain anyway. Believers must own the truth of things within their own hearts, otherwise it is merely an external religion that pleases man.

I appreciate your apology, it was very gracious. Your post blessed me. I do get passionate about things, and it is hard to completely understand the intentions of one another through email posts. It is so wonderful that ,though we do not fully agree on some specific matters, we can certainly love each other because of our bond in Christ. It is a blessing to my heart to be restored in peace with one another again. Praise God for His love that He grants those who know Him, for God is love.

God bless you.

lovely
 
QUOTE
Futhermore, no one here is advocating the begetting of children they cannot support. Advocating procreation is about advocating responsibility, to one's body, one's spouse, and to the commands of God. This doesn't mean have so many children that you are forced to live on welfare... but look at lovely's beautiful testimony of trust in God, it's about raising children responsibly and not necessarily lavishly. Do we NEED cable, brand name clothes, the biggest TV we can find, etc.? Imagine life without cable-- no worrying about MTV or other ridiculous channels, and plenty of time (while the "boring" programs are on) to gather together as a family and communicate with each other rather than merely existing together on the couch with a TV dinner.



So you mean we should have as many children as we can have, even if we cant give them a good life.
If a whole country start doing this... what do you think will happen? OVERPOPULATION... HUNGER... You are clearly against cable, but think, as we still cant give them cable, we cant give them clothes, we cant give them food (and this is less as we make more children). You wont pay them all college, and they will all be wandering in the streets.
Why dont you just have 2 children, but give them a good education, etc.?

And the crisis in Africa, is it better to tell them not to have sex? I dont think they will even listen. Humans always want to have sex, its natural. So you cant tell people to just have sex 2 times in their life. God gave is free will remember? I dont see him apearing from the sky and give a rain of bread to the hungry people. And if he exist he could very well do it. So god commands you to have children, but doesnt takes responsability when they die of hunger? Or he just wants to see they suffer?

And there is brainwashing. When they tell you at home when you are born till you leave your parents house, that if you have sex with a condom, you will go eternaly to hell, well he'll end up believing that, and probably will be afraid of having sex all his life. That is brainwashing. And you can do it with almost everything, even with god.
 
Punk-o-rama,

#1 You'd have to clarify what qualifies as a "good life"

#2 I don't know where you're getting the whole thing about starving children to death and over-population? Neither would fall under "responsible parenthood"

#3 Yes, wanting to have sex is natural. Animals "get the urge" (so to speak)... as humans, with the capacity to reason, we CAN choose not to have sex, and recognize that a greater good is at hand (namely the protection of another).

#4 Regarding the "brainwashing"... I have no idea what you are talking about. Secondly, wouldn't this "brainwashing" conflict with your "free will" statement earlier (i.e., must not be a very strong free will you have in mind?)? Parents can attempt to instill certain values in their children... children still choose (for themselves) whether or not to accept or reject them.
 
CatholicXian said:
Punk-o-rama,

#1 You'd have to clarify what qualifies as a "good life"

#2 I don't know where you're getting the whole thing about starving children to death and over-population? Neither would fall under "responsible parenthood"

#3 Yes, wanting to have sex is natural. Animals "get the urge" (so to speak)... as humans, with the capacity to reason, we CAN choose not to have sex, and recognize that a greater good is at hand (namely the protection of another).

#4 Regarding the "brainwashing"... I have no idea what you are talking about. Secondly, wouldn't this "brainwashing" conflict with your "free will" statement earlier (i.e., must not be a very strong free will you have in mind?)? Parents can attempt to instill certain values in their children... children still choose (for themselves) whether or not to accept or reject them.

what i mean with a good life is, having education, having some things u want (we always want material stuff dont we), and if you have 15 children, you cant give them all that, you'll have to give them equal, so you need to be very rich, or they wont have a good education, thus theyre prolly work at mc donalds all their life, and i dont think thats a pretty nice life...

And i mean that alot of ignorant people dont use protection, so they keep having children they cant support, just because they're afraid they'll go to hell. Thus, they cant feed them (im talking about the dirt poor right now, like in africa), and if they dont feed they die of hunger. Maybe if they wouldnt or have only had 1 children, they could feed him ok.

And about brainwashing. Whats the hard thing youre not getting? When some1 drums you something from your childhood till your legal, then you will end up believing and taking it for granted... Only smart people start thinking if this idea is really right, etc.
 
#1 You'd have to clarify what qualifies as a "good life"

One were you can actually provide for your children in life.

#2 I don't know where you're getting the whole thing about starving children to death and over-population? Neither would fall under "responsible parenthood"

If one has children after children that they cannot look after then that's not responsible. God gave us wisdom for a reason.

#3 Yes, wanting to have sex is natural. Animals "get the urge" (so to speak)... as humans, with the capacity to reason, we CAN choose not to have sex, and recognize that a greater good is at hand (namely the protection of another).

Sure we can but God gave us sex for other reasons other than reproduction too. So if one doesn't want anymore children then there's no reason inthe world why they still can't have sex, so they stop themselves from reproducing. God gives no law against this whatsoever.

#4 Regarding the "brainwashing"... I have no idea what you are talking about. Secondly, wouldn't this "brainwashing" conflict with your "free will" statement earlier (i.e., must not be a very strong free will you have in mind?)? Parents can attempt to instill certain values in their children... children still choose (for themselves) whether or not to accept or reject them.

Actually brainwashing takes away free will. I've been brainwashed myself in my life so I know what I'm talking about. It compromises free will.
 
thats just my 2 cents (and i know i will be flamed for them)

hehehe


Hold up on the flaming. I need to go get some franks.

[Cure runs from the room to get some hot dogs]



[Cure comes back with hot dogs and roasting sticks.]

ok...let the flaming begin.
camp.gif
 
Ok sense no one is going to flaim I guess I will do my best to get the fire going. Here is a quote from John Henry Newman that I think applies:


Men allow us ministers of Christ to proceed in our preaching, while we confine ourselves to general truths, until they see that they themselves are implicated in them, and have to act upon them; and then they suddenly come to a stand; they collect themselves and draw back, and say, “They do not see this – or do not admit that†– and though they are quite unable to say why that should not follow from what they already allow, which we show must follow, still the persist in saying that they do not see that it does follow’ and they look about for excuses, and they say we carry things too far, and that we are extravagant, and we do not take into account times, and seasons, and the like. This is what they pretend; and well has it been said, "where there is a will there is a wayâ€Â; for there is no truth, however overpoweringly clear, but men may escape from it by shutting their eyes; there is not duty, however urgent, but they may find ten thousand good reasons against it, in their own case. And they are sure to say we carry things too far, when we carry them home to themselves.

This sad infirmity of men, called Christians, is exemplified in the subject immediately before us. Who does not at once admit that faith consists in venturing on Christ’s word without seeing? Yet in spite of this, may it not be seriously questioned, whether men in general, even those of the better sort, venture anything upon truth at all?
 
Punk-O-Rama said:
what i mean with a good life is, having education, having some things u want (we always want material stuff dont we), and if you have 15 children, you cant give them all that, you'll have to give them equal, so you need to be very rich, or they wont have a good education, thus theyre prolly work at mc donalds all their life, and i dont think thats a pretty nice life...
You don't have to be rich to give children a good education.. unless you mean rich in knowledge! ;-) Parents have the first responsibility to educate their children.

Secondly, having "some things you want" doesn't necessitate heaps of wealth... even if a person has 15 children. It means learning to adjust to a bit of a different lifestyle perhaps... and maybe not going out to eat twice a week or whatever.. but a family can live very nicely on a modest budget.

And i mean that alot of ignorant people dont use protection, so they keep having children they cant support, just because they're afraid they'll go to hell. Thus, they cant feed them (im talking about the dirt poor right now, like in africa), and if they dont feed they die of hunger. Maybe if they wouldnt or have only had 1 children, they could feed him ok.
Maybe if they just didn't have sex, then they wouldn't have to worry about not being able to provide for children they are unprepared for?

Responsible parenthood does not mean "have as many children as possible"-- that's not the goal. The goal is to be open to life-- to have children and raise them in a manner appropriate and befitting a child of God.

And about brainwashing. Whats the hard thing youre not getting? When some1 drums you something from your childhood till your legal, then you will end up believing and taking it for granted... Only smart people start thinking if this idea is really right, etc.
?
People can still choose for themselves. My parents can raise my brother and I as strictly as they please, but that doesn't mean that we will turn out one way or the other. We choose our own actions and our own course of life.
 
Back
Top