Why wasn't Jesus eternally tormented?

[Doulos Iesou]

Do you folks realize the effect Sin had on God Himself?

Remember he rested after he created. But when sin came into the world he no longer rested. John 5:17 John 9:4 Phil. 1:6

Sin is a HUGE deal!

Conditionalism is not an attempt to lessen the severity of sin, yes sin results in being eternally cut off from God's creation with no hope of return and it is indeed a very huge deal. We do not reason in such a way that diminishes sin, but it's rather a clarification of what Scripture actually teaches on the nature of the final punishment.

 

[Guest]

But no, the fruits of your actions say no such thing.

Virgin, do you understand that you're judging people with this comment that you've been repeating for the past what, two months now? Do you understand what you're doing?

He understands.

He is using rule number 4 from Saul Alinsky's famous book Rules for Radicles. That rule reads, "Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.”

Now all you need to do is turn it back on him. Of course if he does not like a protion of scipture he will simply claim that portion was not from God. He has a built in excuse to ignore portions he does not approve of.

Good to know, ty and very interesting.

so what is your interpretation of Revelation 20:10.

You're more than welcome to look through the posts previously made in this thread to see, I'm sorry I've just repeated myself too many times in this thread. So many demands for me to answer to this or that, and I do answer... but then someone else comes along or even the same person comes along and asks the same question.

 

[reba]

Across the board to all members ....

Any personal problems with another member, then deal with it through private messages. No harassing members via PM. No public posting of PMs. Publicly announcing who is on a member's Ignore list is prohibited.
Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defence of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.



We are not the same we can have different views. These boards are not to be used to pit one member against another. How about stating ones views with scriptural support and letting it be.... This place is not your personal playground.

 

[P31Woman]

Do you folks realize the effect Sin had on God Himself?

Remember he rested after he created. But when sin came into the world he no longer rested. John 5:17 John 9:4 Phil. 1:6

Sin is a HUGE deal!

Conditionalism is not an attempt to lessen the severity of sin, yes sin results in being eternally cut off from God's creation with no hope of return and it is indeed a very huge deal. We do not reason in such a way that diminishes sin, but it's rather a clarification of what Scripture actually teaches on the nature of the final punishment.

RC Sproul, "There is no cruelty in hell. Hell will be a place of perfect justice."

 

[Guest]

You all need to stop ignoring scripture and instead relying on your own hearts. Not good.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Across the board to all members ....

Any personal problems with another member, then deal with it through private messages. No harassing members via PM. No public posting of PMs. Publicly announcing who is on a member's Ignore list is prohibited.
Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defence of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.



We are not the same we can have different views. These boards are not to be used to pit one member against another. How about stating ones views with scriptural support and letting it be.... This place is not your personal playground.

100% agreement, let's stick to Scripture! Thank you Reba!

 

[Doulos Iesou]

RC Sproul, "There is no cruelty in hell. Hell will be a place of perfect justice."

Well in the reality of what Hell will be, yes that will be true. What then Biblically is the accurate portrayal of the nature of the punishment.. that is the question. Otherwise this argument simply begs the question.

 

[Guest]

You all need to stop ignoring scripture and instead relying on your own hearts. Not good.

Who is doing that exactly?

You're stalling, not a good quality in a Christian. Nevermind, you obviously can't prove me wrong. Carry on..

 

[P31Woman]

RC Sproul, "There is no cruelty in hell. Hell will be a place of perfect justice."

Well in the reality of what Hell will be, yes that will be true. What then Biblically is the accurate portrayal of the nature of the punishment.. that is the question. Otherwise this argument simply begs the question.

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46).

(I've never had punishment that did not involve pain)

 

[P31Woman]

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46).

(I've never had punishment that did not involve pain)


Luke 12:47-48, “And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, shall receive many lashes, 48 but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. And from everyone who has been given much shall much be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.”

John 19:11, “Jesus answered [Pilate], 'You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me up to you has the greater sin.' ”

Heb. 10:29, “How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?”


RC Sproul, "There is no cruelty in hell. Hell will be a place of perfect justice."

 

[reba]

Across the board to all members ....

Any personal problems with another member, then deal with it through private messages. No harassing members via PM. No public posting of PMs. Publicly announcing who is on a member's Ignore list is prohibited.
Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defence of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.



We are not the same we can have different views. These boards are not to be used to pit one member against another. How about stating ones views with scriptural support and letting it be.... This place is not your personal playground.

As a member I find it terribly unfair for 1 or 2 members to continually forward personal attacks on another member.... Often done in hopes of closing threads. As a moderator maybe taking the harsh road and issuing infractions will stop the practice. Ignoring the request of moderators is a violation of the ToS you agreed too when you signed up. Think about being a Christian man/woman of your word. reba

 

[Guest]

RC Sproul, "There is no cruelty in hell. Hell will be a place of perfect justice."

Well in the reality of what Hell will be, yes that will be true. What then Biblically is the accurate portrayal of the nature of the punishment.. that is the question. Otherwise this argument simply begs the question.

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46).

(I've never had punishment that did not involve pain)

Yes!! Good scripture,

 

[Guest]

Also Matthew 25:41.

 

[reba]

At 66 years I have had enough of baby setting. Closed for clean up

 

[reba]

Thread opened.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

As a member I find it terribly unfair for 1 or 2 members to continually forward personal attacks on another member.... Often done in hopes of closing threads. As a moderator maybe taking the harsh road and issuing infractions will stop the practice. Ignoring the request of moderators is a violation of the ToS you agreed too when you signed up. Think about being a Christian man/woman of your word. reba

I am far from innocent, but I find this observation from a moderator very insightful and comforting. I totally agree with this post. She took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[P31Woman]

Most Christians in the world today affirm the Penal Substitutionary Atonement position that Jesus took our punishment standing in our place at the Cross suffering the wrath of God so that we might be forgiven.

However, if the punishment for sin is eternal torment in the lake of fire... why wasn't Jesus tormented in hell for eternity? Wouldn't we say that Jesus only overcame an aspect of our punishment.. when in fact those were punished suffered a totally different punishment than the one Jesus endured.

You are trying to compare "The One and Only Perfect Spotless Holy" sacrifice with a sacrifice whose best works smells like filthy rags, is hated by God and is completely depraved.

Isaiah 64:6


Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"
Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates."

Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them."

Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."

Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Most Christians in the world today affirm the Penal Substitutionary Atonement position that Jesus took our punishment standing in our place at the Cross suffering the wrath of God so that we might be forgiven.

However, if the punishment for sin is eternal torment in the lake of fire... why wasn't Jesus tormented in hell for eternity? Wouldn't we say that Jesus only overcame an aspect of our punishment.. when in fact those were punished suffered a totally different punishment than the one Jesus endured.

You are trying to compare "The One and Only Perfect Spotless Holy" sacrifice with a sacrifice whose best works smells like filthy rags, is hated by God and is completely depraved.

Isaiah 64:6


Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"
Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates."

Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them."

Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."

Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."

How am I doing that exactly? My contention is simply that if Jesus is to be our substitute in undergoing the punishment of God. Why would he then receive an all-together different punishment then sinners will one day receive.

I'm not trying to elevate the sins of man, and bring down the worth of the Cross. Just asking a relevant question to the issue.

 

[Guest]

How am I doing that exactly? My contention is simply that if Jesus is to be our substitute in undergoing the punishment of God. Why would he then receive an all-together different punishment then sinners will one day receive.

If you are truly born again, your inheritance is in heaven.
Are you forgetting that Jesus was sinless and also baptized in the Holy Spirit..

Matthew 3:16

View attachment 3100

 

[Drew]

The Challenge: Defend the eternal torment position against Paul's statements like "the wages of sin is death".

A Common Response:

1. When Paul says the wages of sin is death, he is specifically speaking of the body, to the exclusion of a consciousness-bearing soul;
2. So, yes, the physical body does indeed die;
3. The consciousness-bearing soul (or spirit) lives on in eternal torment.
4. Therefore, such statements by Paul do not challenge the "eternal torment" position.

The problem with this view is that rests on an assumption - that it is indeed Biblically correct to divide up the human person into (1) a consciousness-bearing soul (or spirit) that can exist apart from the body; and (2) a physical body in which that soul / spirit is "housed", at least during this present life.

The problem is that there is, I believe, no Biblical support for such an assumption.

I suggest that Paul means exactly what he says - the ultimate penalty is death. Not life in torment, but death.