Ye must be born again !

[savedbygrace57]

Ezk 36:26

When God gives the New Heart in New Birth, He is giving these things as well

Ezk 36:26

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

The word heart here is the word leb and means:


inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding

a) inner part, midst

1) midst (of things)

2) heart (of man)

3) soul, heart (of man)

4) mind, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory

5) inclination, resolution, determination (of will)

6) conscience

7) heart (of moral character)

8) as seat of appetites

9) as seat of emotions and passions

10) as seat of courage

The same word is translated understanding here Prov 6:32

32 But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.

As wisdom here Job 36:

5 Behold, God is mighty, and despiseth not any: he is mighty in strength and wisdom.

Its translated Mind Num 16:28

28 And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the Lord hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind.


So in New Birth He gives as a Gift of Grace a New Heart which means New Will, Understanding, Affections , Mind and other Faculties, that is needed to Live a New Life unto the Glory of God, to begin with Faith and Repentance, which is a change of mind !

 

[John O]

In the flesh we can do nothing of eternal value we can do all things in Christ.through the inspiration of our tutor and according to the word of God

Salvation is but the beginning/starting place for our journey to be like Christ.

John O

 

[Party]

I browsed the posts and might be posting blindly here.
OP brought up one must be born again which I agree.
But he failed to mention being born of water and the Spirit in John 3:5.
I always try to interpet the bible with the bible so here is my understanding.
John 3:5 was talking about Johns baptism of Christ Jesus and Christ Jesus baptism of the Holy Spirit to His believers.
Before the Lord departed and went to sit at the right hand of the Father he said in Acts 1:5 that John truly baptized with water and that He (Christ Jesus) will baptize with the Spirit.
In the beginning of the gospels Jesus always gets baptized by John.
When He was baptized they communed with each other and said "It is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness" concerning Him (Christ Jesus) being baptized.

Some people also go at this a different route thinking we have to be born again literally. Like have to die and then be resurrected. Which the resurrection has biblical basis however being born again after resurrection does not.

Some say being born of water in the water and the Spirit is just being born of flesh. But they are interpreting with human theology and thought then. It doesn't really make sense. Why would Jesus tell us to be born again of water and the Spirit then?

People also say that to be born of water is to be baptized with water and then get the Holy Spirit to be saved. They bring up verses like in Acts 2:38. But bare with me here, that is also not good because we're saved without works. You might bring up the book of James saying "faith without works is a dead faith" but that was speaking about living in love and has nothing to do with baptisms and so on. I also would raise to these people Acts 10:43-47 and Ephesians 1:13-14. Those people were saved and sealed with the holy spirit by faith, before being baptized. Ephesians proves this without a doubt that this is what happens when you believe. The baptism does not do this. So to say being born of "water" is to be baptized is also error since those people were saved.

You also may have people say the water refers to the holy spirit... Like Jesus Christ says in John 7:38-39 "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.†But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive;". Now listen here, is Jesus telling us to be born of water and the Spirit or Spirit and the Spirit? The Spirit gives the feeling of a fountain of water, it is the living water. But that is not being born of water and the Spirit.

After going through the many ways of being born again from what I have experienced from people. I have personally come to a much different conclusion. That being born of water and the Spirit is to believe in the ministries of John and Christ. If you read 1 John 5:6 it reads "This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth." So if you believe scripture then you can logically say then that his water baptism coupled with his crucifixion grants the Holy Spirit to a believer. So the way to be born again is to believe in his baptism also. In verse 8 it says "And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one." If something agrees as one that means you cannot take a piece out and be saved. So I can say, that if you only have is water then you aren't saved. If you only have his blood in your faith you aren't saved. If you don't have the Spirit then you aren't saved. But all three, together is salvation. I always liked these verses because of the tabernacle. If you read they colored the tabernacle (tabernacle meaning where God meets his people) red, blue and purple. Water is blue, blood is red, and when you combine these two colors what color do they make? purple. So the Holy Spirit is signified as purple in this, that if you believe in all of the witnesses you become born again.

Verse 9 concludes this and says "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son."

Thoughts?

 

[savedbygrace57]

They that know His Name shall Trust in Him Eph 1:13

Ps 9:10

10 And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, Lord, hast not forsaken them that seek thee.

Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

It seems this scripture Ps 9:10 gives us to understand that a Knowledge of God or Christ is a qualification in order for one to put their Trust in His Name or in Him; but the knowledge comes as a fruit of the New Birth Heb 8:11

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Jer 31:34

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

 

[John O]

I browsed the posts and might be posting blindly here.
OP brought up one must be born again which I agree.
But he failed to mention being born of water and the Spirit in John 3:5.
I always try to interpet the bible with the bible so here is my understanding.
John 3:5 was talking about Johns baptism of Christ Jesus and Christ Jesus baptism of the Holy Spirit to His believers.
Before the Lord departed and went to sit at the right hand of the Father he said in Acts 1:5 that John truly baptized with water and that He (Christ Jesus) will baptize with the Spirit.
In the beginning of the gospels Jesus always gets baptized by John.
When He was baptized they communed with each other and said "It is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness" concerning Him (Christ Jesus) being baptized.

Some people also go at this a different route thinking we have to be born again literally. Like have to die and then be resurrected. Which the resurrection has biblical basis however being born again after resurrection does not.

Some say being born of water in the water and the Spirit is just being born of flesh. But they are interpreting with human theology and thought then. It doesn't really make sense. Why would Jesus tell us to be born again of water and the Spirit then?

People also say that to be born of water is to be baptized with water and then get the Holy Spirit to be saved. They bring up verses like in Acts 2:38. But bare with me here, that is also not good because we're saved without works. You might bring up the book of James saying "faith without works is a dead faith" but that was speaking about living in love and has nothing to do with baptisms and so on. I also would raise to these people Acts 10:43-47 and Ephesians 1:13-14. Those people were saved and sealed with the holy spirit by faith, before being baptized. Ephesians proves this without a doubt that this is what happens when you believe. The baptism does not do this. So to say being born of "water" is to be baptized is also error since those people were saved.

You also may have people say the water refers to the holy spirit... Like Jesus Christ says in John 7:38-39 "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.†But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive;". Now listen here, is Jesus telling us to be born of water and the Spirit or Spirit and the Spirit? The Spirit gives the feeling of a fountain of water, it is the living water. But that is not being born of water and the Spirit.

After going through the many ways of being born again from what I have experienced from people. I have personally come to a much different conclusion. That being born of water and the Spirit is to believe in the ministries of John and Christ. If you read 1 John 5:6 it reads "This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth." So if you believe scripture then you can logically say then that his water baptism coupled with his crucifixion grants the Holy Spirit to a believer. So the way to be born again is to believe in his baptism also. In verse 8 it says "And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one." If something agrees as one that means you cannot take a piece out and be saved. So I can say, that if you only have is water then you aren't saved. If you only have his blood in your faith you aren't saved. If you don't have the Spirit then you aren't saved. But all three, together is salvation. I always liked these verses because of the tabernacle. If you read they colored the tabernacle (tabernacle meaning where God meets his people) red, blue and purple. Water is blue, blood is red, and when you combine these two colors what color do they make? purple. So the Holy Spirit is signified as purple in this, that if you believe in all of the witnesses you become born again.

Verse 9 concludes this and says "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son."

Thoughts?

Ouch could be a problem with the modern preaching because they tend to leave water baptism out of that process and add it as an add on down the track.

John O

 

[JLB]

Born of the water and the Spirit !


Isa 44:3

For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

Jn 3:5

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Being born of water and of the Spirit is no different from what Jesus stated in vs 3 Jn 3:3,6,8 and that is being born of the Spirit !

Now false religion has corrupted the words of the Saviour and have introduced the false notion that water here means water baptism, a sort of water baptism regeneration from actual literal water ! However when Jesus speaks of being born of the water, its merely further clarification of being born of the Spirit, because of the Spirit's Purifying and cleansing effect, in the washing of regeneration and His Renewing Titus 3:5-6

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

And that is why Paul says right after describing the Holy Spirit's merciful Saving Work of Regeneration and Renewal, that He [The Spirit] had been poured out on them abundantly vs 6

6 Which he shed or poured on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

The word shed or pour is key and denotes Water being poured. The Pouring of the Spirit as water on Christ's seed Isa 44:3

3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

Jesus in John 3 is actually referring to an OT Prophecy, Nicodemus being a Teacher of the Law should have been familiar with Ezk 36:25

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

And also Isa 44:3, of which all these OT Prophecies connect together about Regeneration and Spiritual Cleansing, the Blessed effects of Christ's Finished Covenant Work of the Cross ! Of course Jesus did know that Nicodemus Ignorance was due to the fact that his understanding of the scriptures had yet to be opened as Jesus will do to all His True Disciples as here Lk 24:44-45

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Without this Work of Christ upon our Minds by His Spirit, we shall never Understand the Scriptures ! And so it is with this Deadly Teaching of water baptism salvation or regeneration, the only hope of deliverance from this demonic error is that they themselves become born again, which is absolutely out of their control !

The term you must be born of water and Spirit has nothing to do with water of regeneration or water for drinking!

5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Born of water = natural child birth

Born of Spirit = spiritual birth

Born of water is a term that refers to natural child birth. Nothing more!

Jesus is explaining to Nicodemus about birth. That is the context of the conversation. Nicodemus is already confused, Jesus is simply trying to teach him a simple spiritual truth.

JLB

 

[dadof10]

The term you must be born of water and Spirit has nothing to do with water of regeneration or water for drinking!

5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Born of water = natural child birth

Born of Spirit = spiritual birth

Born of water is a term that refers to natural child birth. Nothing more!

Jesus is explaining to Nicodemus about birth. That is the context of the conversation. Nicodemus is already confused, Jesus is simply trying to teach him a simple spiritual truth.

JLB

Could you please show me where the term "born of water" is used for childbirth ANYWHERE in any writing from the first century back?

 

[JLB]

Could you please show me where the term "born of water" is used for childbirth ANYWHERE in any writing from the first century back?

For one, I just showed you from John 3:5. The explanation is contained in the next verse.

5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


What do you think born of flesh means? It means natural child birth!


John uses this phrase again when describing The Virgin Birth!

6 This is He who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ;not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 1 John 5:6

This is a reference to Jesus' virgin birth.

He came by water = Natural child birth!

He came by water and blood = Supernatural Virgin Child Birth!

Mary's water sack and her hymen broke when He came into the world!


JLB

 

[dadof10]

For one, I just showed you from John 3:5. The explanation is contained in the next verse.

5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


What do you think born of flesh means? It means natural child birth

No, it doesn't. If it did, Jesus' answer to Nicodemus makes no sense. Nicodemus MISUNDERSTOOD what Jesus was saying:

"Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" "

According to your view, Jesus answer is "To be saved you must be 'born of water', which means natural child birth, so, yes, you must find a way to enter into your mother's womb and be reborn."

Secondly, If Jesus meant "natural child birth" He would be making a ridiculous statement. It would be like saying "you must breathe air to be saved" or "you must be either male or female to be saved". EVERY PERSON who is on earth has gone through "natural child birth".

John uses this phrase again when describing The Virgin Birth!

6 This is He who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ;not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 1 John 5:6

This is a reference to Jesus' virgin birth.

He came by water = Natural child birth!

He came by water and blood = Supernatural Virgin Child Birth!

Mary's water sack and her hymen broke when He came into the world!


JLB

Please!!! Context.

"This is he who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ, not with the water only but with the water and the blood. 7 And the Spirit is the witness, because the Spirit is the truth. 8 There are three witnesses, the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree. 9 If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for this is the testimony of God that he has borne witness to his Son."

How can the "water" of "natural birth" agree? The Spirit can agree, because He is a Person. The "blood" can agree because Jesus DID something through blood, namely His Passion. The "water" can agree because He DID something through water, namely BAPTISM. These three things had to be a WITNESS to His ministry to make sense. The water, again refers to His baptism, the blood to His Passion, both bearing witness to God's Son. Do you think it's coincidental that the Spirit "came down upon Him like a dove" at His baptism and John uses this same imagery here?

There is not ONE instance in Scripture where "water and blood" or "blood" is referring to ANY birth. EVERY TIME the word "blood" is used in relation to Jesus, it is referring to His Passion, not his birth.

Nicodemus needs to understand what Jesus is saying or "born of water and spirit" is just adding to his confusion. What you need to prove, is that the phrase "born of water" (not "came by water and blood") was somehow KNOWN by Nicodemus or your theory falls flat.

 

[rrowell]

For one, I just showed you from John 3:5. The explanation is contained in the next verse.

5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


What do you think born of flesh means? It means natural child birth!


John uses this phrase again when describing The Virgin Birth!

6 This is He who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ;not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 1 John 5:6

This is a reference to Jesus' virgin birth.

He came by water = Natural child birth!

He came by water and blood = Supernatural Virgin Child Birth!

Mary's water sack and her hymen broke when He came into the world!


JLB

the scripture you reference here does NOT have anything to do with "Natural child birth"...

Jesus came by water refers to his Baptism, it is the point he began his ministry and the spirit did bear witness of this... Matthew 3:16

his ministry ended with the blood "it is finished" John 19:30 and the spirit did bear witness of this...

Jesus ministry started with his baptism and ended with his blood shed on the cross... and the spirit did bear witness...

 

[JLB]

According to your view, Jesus answer is "To be saved you must be 'born of water', which means natural child birth, so, yes, you must find a way to enter into your mother's womb and be reborn."

Please read what the scripture says -

3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." 4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" 5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


Jesus said -

unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jesus said -

"Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.


Jesus said -

that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

From the above mentioned verses Jesus says -

• unless one is born of water and the Spirit, which means, both water and spirit "birth" are required.

• born of flesh = natural birth
• born of the Spirit = spiritual birth

"Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

How can the "water" of "natural birth" agree? The "water" can agree because He DID something through water, namely BAPTISM.

The water of Mary's water sack and the blood of her hymen that spilled out when Jesus "came" into the world, The Holy Spirit witnessing this miracle phenomenon!

This is the testimony of Jesus' Virgin Birth!

Baptism is not mentioned.

6 This is He who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ;not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 1 John 5:6

This is a reference to Jesus' virgin birth.

He came by water = Natural child birth!

He came by water and blood = Supernatural Virgin Child Birth!

Mary's water sack and her hymen broke when He came into the world!


If this explanation doesn't help, I'm sorry!


JLB

 

[rrowell]

Please read what the scripture says -

3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." 4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" 5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


Jesus said -

unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jesus said -

"Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.


Jesus said -

that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

From the above mentioned verses Jesus says -

• unless one is born of water and the Spirit, which means, both water and spirit "birth" are required.

• born of flesh = natural birth
• born of the Spirit = spiritual birth

"Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

born of water as you speak says anyone born into this world is half way to the point of salvation??? so if it were true what you say, all he would have had to say was "Except a man be born of Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God", now you really don't believe that do you? it goes against all other scripture...

Mark 16:16 KJV
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Being Baptized is being "Born of water", and once your Baptized (after you are baptized) you receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

Acts 2:38 KJV
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Unless your "Born of the water and of the Spirit" you "cannot enter into the kingdom of God"

Unless you are "baptized" you cannot be "saved" :

Mark 16:16 KJV
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

This is the message to Nicodemus...

 

[JLB]

born of water as you speak says anyone born into this world is half way to the point of salvation??? so if it were true what you say, all he would have had to say was "Except a man be born of Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God", now you really don't believe that do you? it goes against all other scripture...

Those are your words, read what I wrote! I quoted Jesus!

Jesus used the term born again!

Jesus said you must be born of water and the Spirit!

Jesus said - for flesh gives birth to flesh!

Please read! For flesh gives birth to flesh!

If you don't understand for flesh gives birth to flesh as being natural birth, then so be it, It couldn't be anymore plain!

Born again refers to spiritual birth!

First, you must be born of flesh to qualify to be born again!

Spirit beings do not qualify for salvation. Only human beings!


JLB

 

[rrowell]

Those are your words, read what I wrote! I quoted Jesus!

Jesus used the term born again!

Jesus said you must be born of water and the Spirit!

Jesus said - for flesh gives birth to flesh!

Please read! For flesh gives birth to flesh!

If you don't understand for flesh gives birth to flesh as being natural birth, then so be it, It couldn't be anymore plain!

Born again refers to spiritual birth!

First, you must be born of flesh to qualify to be born again!

Spirit beings do not qualify for salvation. Only human beings!


JLB

I read it, I read it... I see what you said, but what you said is not what he said...

He is rebuking Nicodemus... it was Nicodemus that referred to the flesh...

Jesus is speaking of not physical cleansing but spiritual, you must be baptized with water representing the burial of the old man, washing away (remitting) sin...

Acts 2:38 KJV
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

You cannot only take words out of context, but you also must take the entire bible into context... to read this verse the way you do takes other scripture out of context...

 

[BornAgain]

There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:1-6 (KJV)

 

[JLB]

You cannot only take words out of context, but you also must take the entire bible into context... to read this verse the way you do takes other scripture out of context...

Ok, I am glad you feel that way.

Here we go line upon line.

You and I will agree on the context of the following verses or I will bow out.

3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"

5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

We have six verses here in Jesus' explanation to Nicodemus.

We have the word born mentioned in every verse!

We do not see the word Baptize mentioned once.

Now before I go any further in this conversation with you, I need to hear from you that the context of this dialog is "birth", whether natural or spiritual, the context of this discussion is "birth".

A. Yes, the context is "birth".

B. No, the context is not "birth".

A. or B.


JLB

 

[savedbygrace57]

Everyone Christ died for and rose again shall be born again by the Resurrection of Him from the dead 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

The NIV 84

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

The ESV Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

 

[dadof10]

Please read what the scripture says -

3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." 4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" 5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


Jesus said -

unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jesus said -

"Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.


Jesus said -

that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

From the above mentioned verses Jesus says -

• unless one is born of water and the Spirit, which means, both water and spirit "birth" are required.

• born of flesh = natural birth
• born of the Spirit = spiritual birth

"Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

I have read the Scripture, thanks. Simply restating your position and quoting Scripture with underlines, bold and red, does not bolster your case or explain the problems you ignored. If Jesus meant "natural birth" by "born of water", He would be telling Nicodemus that he had to crawl back into his mother's womb to be "born again". This is undeniable. To accept your view, you have to believe that Jesus made the ridiculous claim that we have to be BORN to be saved. Is He making the case that babies who die in the womb are DAMNED?

The water of Mary's water sack and the blood of her hymen that spilled out when Jesus "came" into the world, The Holy Spirit witnessing this miracle phenomenon!

This is the testimony of Jesus' Virgin Birth!

Baptism is not mentioned.

Neither is "birth". Because the word "came" is in the sentence doesn't mean "birth".

erchomai

1) to come
a) of persons
1) to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning
2) to appear, make one's appearance, come before the public
2) metaph.
a) to come into being, arise, come forth, show itself, find place or influence
b) be established, become known, to come (fall) into or unto
3) to go, to follow one


http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2064&t=KJV

Notice "birth" isn't one of the definitions.

Of these definitions of the word "come", the one that seems to fit best is "2) to appear, make one's appearance, come before the public". The reason being because John's point here is: "for this is the testimony of God that he has borne witness to his Son."

The closest definition to "birth" is "a) to come into being, arise, come forth, show itself, find place or influence."

I don't think John's point (especially John) was that when Jesus CAME INTO BEING, He came by water and blood. If it is, we have a bigger theological problem than what "water" means here.

 

[JLB]

If Jesus meant "natural birth" by "born of water", He would be telling Nicodemus that he had to crawl back into his mother's womb to be "born again".

Jesus said - "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Do you agree that one must be born of water and be born of The Spirit to enter the kingdom of God?

Yes or No?

Neither is "birth". Because the word "came" is in the sentence doesn't mean "birth".

From your definition - to come into being


This is He who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 1 John 5:6

Okay, let me ask you a simple question.

Do you believe that when Mary gave birth to Jesus, her water sack and her hymen broke when He came out?

Yes or No?


JLB

 

[JLB]

There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:1-6 (KJV)

Yes, that is the scripture we are discussing.

What does for flesh gives birth to flesh mean to you.

We welcome your comments.


JLB